Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Re: MIG or TIG? (womenfly2)
2. 06:49 AM - Re: MIG or TIG? (William Wynne)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: control and bracing cable (AircamperN11MS)
4. 07:51 AM - History from Jennifer Kapler----Pietenpol 50 Year Gathering (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
5. 12:32 PM - First piet flight of the year... (tools)
6. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: New builder questions (Jack)
7. 01:04 PM - Re: New builder questions (AircamperN11MS)
8. 01:06 PM - Re: First piet flight of the year... (AircamperN11MS)
9. 01:34 PM - Re: MIG or TIG? (Larry M)
10. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: MIG or TIG? (Scott Knowlton)
11. 01:59 PM - Re: MIG or TIG? (tools)
12. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: MIG or TIG? (John Franklin)
13. 02:13 PM - Re: MIG or TIG? (THOMAS.233327)
14. 02:59 PM - Re: First piet flight of the year... (Jeff Boatright)
15. 03:08 PM - Re: First piet flight of the year... (tools)
16. 03:18 PM - Re: First piet flight of the year... (Jeff Boatright)
17. 03:21 PM - Re: Cont. Engine Parts For Sale (Gardiner Mason)
18. 05:57 PM - Continental tapered spline hub for sale (Pietflyer1977)
19. 05:59 PM - Continental tapered spline hub for sale (Pietflyer1977)
Message 1
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Look at Everlast Welders (http://www.everlastgenerators.com/). Very good welders for the money, as good as Miller & the others plus more reasonable in cost. Lots of reviews on YouTube.
I would say TIG, but gas and MIG have there place too. MIG has welded many aircraft
so do not rule that out, not to mention that the Maule fuselage is MIG welded.
No matter what you purchase, practice, practice, practice. Welding is more experience
then skill.
WF2
--------
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437394#437394
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As politely as possible, a few differing perspectives on welding ideas:
Evergreen welders are, in the opinion of many informed people, a marketing scam.
Read the website: "sourced from global suppliers" - If you want a Chinese welder,
go to harbor freight and by one. True story: Evergreens sales approach is
based on having lots of 'non stocking dealers' , a guy with a lot of brochure
and a few samples, you order, he makes a cut and it is shipped to you. Their
website states that anyone who wants to aggressively push their product is qualified
to be a dealer, no welding experience required, nor is any repair or service
experience nor a brick and mortar store.
.
A guy from our airport who should have known better, ordered one at Oshkosh. He
was lured by chep price, but the promise of Miller quality. It arrives with shipping
damage to the housing. He calls to say, just send another housing. They
don't want to do this, they only want to send a new welder and bill him for
the heavy shipment. With several other curious welders there, the box comes off,
and the insides look a lot like the ones from harbor freight. It is loaded
up and taken to the Blanding Blvd HF in Jacksonville, where the manager is known,
and he allows a side by side comparison with the housings off. They undoubtably
came from the exact same assembly line, the only difference is the Evergreen
is green, cost twice as much, and doesn't have the local HF store who would
gladly warrantee their china welder.
.
I have owned most brands of electric welders, but 90% of my work has been done
with Lincoln. This said, no fair person with experience will tell you that any
other welder is as good as a Miller, period. Calling a Chinese weldor as good
as a Miller is not a defendable statement. 100 endorsements of evergreen on youtube
are meaningless, they are a product of their dealers, As I said before,
a skilled person could use a car battery and jumper cables and a 6011 rod to
weld, but it isn't how a serious person learns. Go back to my point about having
a machine with 'micro-start', it is a vast improvement for beginners and skilled
alike. My Lincoln 170 square wave didn't have it, and I welded 250 motor
mounts in 10 years with it. My 225 is a generation newer, and it does, and you
don't fully appreciate the difference until you try to go back and use the old
machine, not for 5 minutes, but an 8 hour day. With the modern machine, I can
go a week without sticking the tungsten. This is incredibly helpful to anyone
who must use reading glasses and has a specific focal range up close.
.
Welding is a Skill, and it is not practice. Ask any Coach or instructor the old adage "Practice makes Perfect" is pleasant puritan bullshit. The only thing practice makes in consistency. If a person does something incorrectly, and they practice it a lot, what happens is that they become very consistent at doing it wrong. There are plenty of 5,000 hr pilots who can't fly a power off approach, and plenty of people who have been welding for 25 years and do a consistently poor job. The awareness that there is a skill to learn, and the willingness to accept instruction makes the difference, not the practice. For a look at a rear welder, read the bottom of this: http://flycorvair.net/2014/10/26/shop-notes-102614/
.
.
To my Oxy loving friends: I am arguably the worst luddite caveman you know: I don't
own a cell phone, I have a 29 year old truck with a Detroit 3-53 in it, I
drive a 49 year old Corvair, I use a 99 year old .30-06 with iron sights, and
spent last evening reading an real paper copy of the September 1934 National
Geographic with Anne Lindbergh's story of flying the Atlantic in .Tingmissartoq'.
I have a very fine and well worn collection of old Victor gas torches, and
I welded many, many fuselages with them. I resisted being a Tig owner for years.
Today, I regard that as a poor choice, and wish I had bought one before 1994.
-ww.
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| Subject: | Re: control and bracing cable |
I use to old Texas Tooth Brush. For the laymen out there. A Wire Brush.
Cheers.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437403#437403
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| Subject: | History from Jennifer Kapler----Pietenpol 50 Year Gathering |
Vi Kapler's daughter Jennifer has started going thru some of her Dad's file
s and she posted this great newspaper article on Facebook today.
So very cool.
It must have been a fairly warm day as people are taking refuge under the w
ings of both airplanes.
The first thing that happened when I put the wings on my plane at the airpo
rt for final assembly back in 1998 was that the airport
dog took about 15 seconds to find and lay down in the shade that the wings
created!
Mike C.
Ohio
[cid:image001.jpg@01D03568.23690360]
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| Subject: | First piet flight of the year... |
I went out and started her up a couple weeks ago, but when I stepped back to the
cockpit and got in the prop wash... Decided to wait!
Today was different though. Perfect day. Started first pull. Took off out of
the yard, went about ten miles for fuel. On a lazy Wednesday noon at a small
airport in the middle of nowhere, still three people saw the Piet and came to
take pics! Flew back to the yard... Priceless.
Can't attach the video, will get it up on youtube or something later
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437422#437422
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| Subject: | Re: New builder questions |
Looks great Chuck, mine are very similar. Although they take more work it
was an enjoyable part of the build...
Jack Textor
West Des Moines, IA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjborsuk
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 8:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New builder questions
Here is a link I pulled from the archives that shows how I built my spars.
It is similar to the way Mike Cuy did his which can be found on
westcoastpiet.com. Less expensive than solid spars, but takes much longer to
build.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=79059&highlight=spars
Chuck
Raleigh NC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437296#437296
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| Subject: | Re: New builder questions |
Bruce,
EAA chapter 1279 at French Valley airport built Box Spars for their Piet. If you
are interested in that I can get you a phone number to contact the proper people.
I did the first flight and personally can attest to the airworthiness
of them.
I don't even know if they made any drawing for them. I do know that an engineer
in their chapter did all the calculations and deemed them plenty strong.
Just PM me and I get the number to you.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437426#437426
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| Subject: | Re: First piet flight of the year... |
WooHoo! YeeHaa!, Wish I was flying today instead of being at work.
Jealous in CA,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437427#437427
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I'd like to learn to weld. My best idea to date is to attend an EAA seminar and
start making scrap metal.
Other ideas?
TIG or gas?
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437429#437429
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Larry,
Four years ago I spent an enjoyable day with my 16 year old son and a very experienced
man who gave us plenty of tips and instruction and showed us how to set
up our tanks and torches and weld. On the way home we bought some steel piece
from Metal Supermarket and for the next month we just practiced. I feel quite
confident in my oxy welds now but I did go back to him for tig work on my engine
mount and cabane fittings. The rest of the fittings requiring welding are
not subject to high loads.
I may purchase a Tig one day but I'm sure glad I started by learning on gas.
Scott K.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 21, 2015, at 4:39 PM, "Larry M" <marquez@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> I'd like to learn to weld. My best idea to date is to attend an EAA seminar
and start making scrap metal.
>
> Other ideas?
> TIG or gas?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437429#437429
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Possibly better than and certainly on par with eaa seminars are the classes offered
by Lincoln. I imagine miller has them as well.
Curious to try the newer tig welders. Gotta say, my old 330 and synchrowave do
do a great job. Nice big heavy copper transformers seem to be at least part
of the nice stable controllable arc equation. And mine aren't fed with massive
circuits, nor do I use them for very heavy welding.
Albeit gonna be a tougher row to hoe, oxy acet is still worth considering. Even
if you don't want to weld your plane with it, it helps you learn to spot and
track a weld puddle. They also cut, heat, braze and burn things nicely.
As with all tools, the real answer is get them all, throw in a plasma cutter for
good measure... Blah blah.
I'm hoping to have a skilled aircraft welder at toolstock, so people can at least
play around with oxy acet mig and tig to get an idea of where they want to
place their efforts.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437432#437432
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Larry,
A couple of years ago I took the EAA welding class and it's pretty good, but all
we did was thin (1/16" or so) 4130. Afterwards, I was able to do my engine
mount welds where it was thin tubing-to-thin tubing, but the thick clusters were
another matter. I just couldn't get enough heat on them and ended up getting
the old-timer at our airport to weld them for me. Perhaps if you attend the
EAA course you could take some thicker steel and get the instructor to show
you how to weld a cluster. I just didn't trust my skills to weld the entire engine
mount (or landing gear for that matter), and still don't to this day.
Regards,
John Franklin
GN-1 / Corvair 164cid
Prairie Aire 4TA0
Needville, TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry M <marquez@att.net>
>Sent: Jan 21, 2015 3:34 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: MIG or TIG?
>
>
>I'd like to learn to weld. My best idea to date is to attend an EAA seminar and
start making scrap metal.
>
>Other ideas?
>TIG or gas?
>
>Thanks
>
>
Message 13
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While I'm not currently building a Piet yet (must finish my Sonex first) I have
and use all three, TIG, MIG, and OXY-Acetylene. At one time I could weld Automotive
exhaust tubing (I can't tell much difference between welding that and aircraft
Chrome-Moly) so that when cutting the weld apart you could not be sure
which side of the metal the torch had been on. It takes A LOT of current practice
to get that good with a torch, much like playing difficult music on a piano.
If (and not likely) I get that good with a torch again, that is what I would
use, otherwise I would use TIG.
The results would be hard to tell apart, and there would be less risk of the metal
next to the weld being quenched by the sharp temperature gradiant that the
very localized heat that is characteristic of TIG welding. The weldment will
absorb a lot less heat using TIG (or MIG) than using Acetylene, reducing the warping
of the structure. Also, Oxy-Acetylene is SLOW, but the slowness is what
heats up the part farther from the melted metal thus making the hottest part
cool more slowly. Most failed TIG or MIG welds that break in Cro-Moly don't break
at the weld, they break right next to the weld where the cold metal had drawn
the heat away too quickly and hardened the metal.
Cro-Moly was developed years before TIG or MIG welding and torch welding was just
about the only way to weld up and assembly. I've never heard of a welded tube
frame airplane from before WW-2 that was but together other than with torches.
Early Kitfoxes and Avids were MIG welded and Rockwell-hardness checked from
time to time. There was always some hardening next to the weld, but they had
specs. about how much was acceptable.
I consider an Oxy-Acetylene outfit a neccesity (Spelling), it's use for heating
almost anything for forming or breaking loose rusted nuts and capscrews in addition
to welding is just too handy. Its also great for welding light Al in automotive
bodywork where .063 3003 h14 is the most common. I have welded 6061 with
my torch. If you use narrow strips cut from the same sheet as the part for
welding rod, metal finishing makes the weld vanish, the weld has the same hardness,
color and shine as the base metal. Aluminum welding requires special goggles
and flux though, and again, current practice.
Of course I bought my Oxy-Acetylene outfit when I was 16, and now I'm 72. The gas
bottles were $72 each, now they're closer to $135-$150. Not at all a bad rate
of inflation since 1958!
Tom Hale
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Philips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:15:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: MIG or TIG?
Oxy-acetylene
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Nipp
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: MIG or TIG?
Gents
Looking to buy a new welder. If you could only choose one welder to build a
Piet, which one would you choose?
/Mike
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| Subject: | Re: First piet flight of the year... |
So how long IS that runway (I mean "yard")?
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| Subject: | Re: First piet flight of the year... |
It's a thousand feet, one way usage. Off in 400 or less, the top half. If you
pop over a fence and set down early, it's a level landing area. Otherwise, you
land going up hill. Either way, you roll a couple of hundred feet before you
have to add power to get up the hill.
Intimidating at first, but very safe and conservative.
Immediately beyond my strip is another thousand feet of very landable clear pasture.
I'll eventually get the fence between the two removed and replaced with
cattlegard grate. Just on the other side of the road. Is a pasture nice enough
to just land into the wind regardless which way it's coming. So lots of options.
Come on up sometime!
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| Subject: | Re: First piet flight of the year... |
Oh, I plan to (and thanks for the invitation again). Just checking to see. 1000'?
Yep, better use the Piet and not the Pitts. [Twisted Evil] [Twisted Evil]
[Twisted Evil]
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| Subject: | Re: Cont. Engine Parts For Sale |
I am interested in the oil tank. How low does the tank drop? Thanks, Gardine
r Mason
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 20, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrot
e:
>
> For those whom may be interested, I am selling two oil tanks and one carb.
heat box. I do not have pictures to show here at the moment, but if anyone i
s interested, email me and when I get home I will send you the large format p
hotos I have. All of these were removed from A-65 engines.
>
> One oil tank has a long neck and includes the dip stick. This tank is in g
ood to very good condition with minimal denting. Needs cleaning and verified
that it does not leak. I am asking $200.00. The second tank has a short ne
ck and no dip stick. This tank has multiple weld repairs on it; it appears t
hat these welds fixed leaks and/or dents on the one side. Still, it is in go
od condition. This tank also needs a good cleaning and checked for leaks. As
king $150.00.
>
> The heat box is fair; the filter mounting flange will need some straighten
ing. It seems to be an older box and of a heavier construction than the one I
am using. Asking $60.00.
>
> All of the above are in the "as removed" condition with no cleaning; you'l
l see exactly what condition they were in when I received the engines a few y
ears back.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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| Subject: | Continental tapered spline hub for sale |
I have a nice hub for sale. Cleaned, magnafluxed and good. $300 plus shipping.
Email rob@stoinoff.com
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437445#437445
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| Subject: | Continental tapered spline hub for sale |
I have a nice hub for sale. Cleaned, magnafluxed and good. $300 plus shipping.
Email rob@stoinoff.com
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437446#437446
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