Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:34 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol Aerobatics (Jack)
2. 06:39 AM - Re: Toolstock 2015. 26 February - 1 march (tools)
3. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Corvair College 32 - San Marcos Texas (Steven Dortch)
4. 10:58 AM - first air camper year (wheelharp)
5. 11:22 AM - A little Pietnepol history from Grant MacLaren (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
6. 12:53 PM - Re: Pietenpol Aerobatics (AircamperN11MS)
7. 01:09 PM - Re: first air camper year (Jack)
8. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: MIG or TIG? (Mike Nipp)
9. 06:30 PM - Re: MIG or TIG? (William Wynne)
10. 08:49 PM - Re: Piet list and BPA slowly dying? (Jerry Dotson)
11. 10:24 PM - Re: Piet list and BPA slowly dying? (Baldeagle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Aerobatics |
Thanks Scott neat stuff! Looks a little bit like a Baking Duce, a design I considered
before the Piet...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Jan 22, 2015, at 4:27 PM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Fellow Pieters,
>
> Well Like I said, I have nothing to hide except the fear that you guys may want
to ban me from the Piet list now. :) Where do I start? How about the use
of the word Certified? I used the term very loosely when I made my last entry.
I should better explain. "Aerobatics" are authorized on my "Operating Limitations"
for "one" person only. It is on the limitations the way it is because
it was done in 1972. Today it is done through a logbook entry. The test pilot
today just states that certain maneuvers have been demonstrated and are safe
to perform. Back in 1972 the maneuvers had to be performed in view of the
FAA person who issued the "Operating Limitations". Mine were so demonstrated.
Loops, Rolls, Stalls, Spins, Hammerheads etc. All positive G's.
>
> The question about the parachute. I can legally fly and do aerobatics without
a chute if I am by myself. If I had a passenger, both persons would need to
wear a chute. Now we all know that there simply is not any room in a Piet for
a chute. This is true with my plane too, so yes I do the aerobatics without one.
I quit doing loops about 15 years ago because the pull up in the beginning
of the loop induced a fare amount of G's to get the plane over the top of the
loop. So now if I want the feeling of the loop I just do a split S. I can
do that and keep the plane under 2-G's safely. Why load the plane up if I don't
need to? Yes the barrel only puts a little more than 1-G on the plane.
>
> Okay, so now on to the air-frame differences. I admit that it looks like a Piet
but under the fabric, it is not. I have a steel tube fuselage. It is not
the fuse on the Pietenpol drawings. The dimensions are the same as the Piet but
the structure is not. I have a lot more tubing in mine. I also have steel
tail feathers. The wing is also different hence the bigger ailerons. The wings
were actually built to the "REED" Clipped wing drawings for the J-3 cub.
These are the wings that allow the guys to do acro in the cubs. So the wing
is a proven acro wing. I only have a 27 foot wing span, this make the ailerons
look huge.
>
> This is only a brief description of the big differences and it will only cause
more questions, but that is okay with me. Like you guys, I like talking about
my plane.
>
> So I'm sure some of you are wondering what the G limitations are on my plane?
Back in the mid 1970's an engineer from General Dynamics did the calculations
for us. His name was Bud Evans. His name may be familiar to so of you old
timers. He is the guy that designed the Volksplane one and two. He was very well
qualified to do the math. Anyway to the point. the documents I have from
him say the plane is good for 4.2 G's. He even told us where it would fail if
it did. Yes I do need be nice and handle the plane gently. The good part is
that the plane is so draggy that it doesn't pick up much speed during the descents
making it easy to not overload the thing.
>
> Attached is a naked pic of the fuse.
>
> Please feel free to ask more questions. I would like you all to understand that
I am very much in support of the Piet and the community. I don't pretend
that mine is a Piet, it very much looks like one from 100 feet. It is supposed
to. Piets are cool. I just happen to have one of the most different snowflakes
from the rest.
>
> Cheers all, More later,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437481#437481
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_117_140.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Toolstock 2015. 26 February - 1 march |
Anyone here planning on coming? The hostess and a few guys from the woodworking
machine crowd who bring brats, pots of chili, Dutch oven cobbler supplies, breakfast
stuff, etc. are just looking for the most accurate guesstimate possible.
Either reply here, pm or email at n0kkj@yahoo.com.
Physical address is 335 castlerock ln, chickamauga ga 30707
If you're bringing a plane or project mention that too. Don't figure there'll
be many planes so might be able to get them all under cover. Also, large commercial
hangar and self serve fuel available at 9a5, ten minute flight south.
I'd bet the hangar is ten bucks a night.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437516#437516
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair College 32 - San Marcos Texas |
Shelley, I am going to wait. I am in the end run on getting my Piet flying
and don't want to get sidetracked. If I get done and y'all have an open
slot, I may jump in. I am interested in the whole process, and even if I
don't build up a corvair, much of what is offered is just good mechancial
knowledge.
I will let you know.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:33 PM, IT Girl <shlizbth@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> We currently have 57 people registered, of those, only 22 are bringing
> engines. It is a great opportunity to learn, watch, fellowship, and maybe
> hop rides. Many people return after finishing their engines to help new
> builders at the college.
>
> This is the only Texas College, and it only happens once each year.. so
> now is the time. Just click on the link above to register.
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
> --------
> Shelley Tumino
> IT Girl
> wife of "Axel"
> NX899KP
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437235#437235
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 4
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| Subject: | first air camper year |
It will be a long time away, but just for fun, I am thinking of possible paint
scheme numbers. I have seen people use the year 1928 in reference to the Piet,
but I would like to use 1927...the year my dad was born, and Lindbergh crossing.
I am confused on the history...Wikipedia shows first flight in 1928, but BHP family
website shows '27 for model T engine, and '29 for model A. Here is text copied
from there-
Finally, on September 1st, 1927, Bernard and Don Finke successes fully flew their
new design. It was powered by an aluminum 16-value Model T engine (ironically
called "the Ace" conversion) developed by Horace Keane. At 30 horsepower, it
was capable of getting two men into the air and safely back on the ground. It
was a step in the right direction, but still Bernard believed it needed additional
power.
By now Henry Ford had come out with his new car, the Model A, powered by a bigger
four cylinder engine. At an estimated 40 horsepower, this engine seemed just
the thing for Bernard Pietenpol's new aircraft design's needs, and having been
on the market for several years, junk yards were starting to get as many of
them as Model T engines.
So Bernard Pietenpol went to work converting the Ford Model A engine for his new
monoplane. In May 1929 Bernard Pietenpol test flew his Air Camper with the new
engine.
Any thoughts on this? I tried archives, and call me lazy, but I gave up a few topics
into the 50,092 returns I got :)
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437530#437530
Message 5
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| Subject: | A little Pietnepol history from Grant MacLaren |
Jon,
I say you should use whatever N-number you like best and I think it would be a
great tribute to your Dad if you end up chosing your Dad's
year of birth but for a little background, this video by former Pietenpol newsletter
editor Grant MacLaren gives a little background on how
all this got started. The Ace Job single-seater was Bernard's first monoplane
and he and Don Finke flew this (a lot) in 1928. You're correct
on the two-seat design that first flew in 1929 with the Ford engine.
Mike C.
Ohio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Ch9QhwyBY (4:18 long)
I just did a quick N-number search and N1927JJ is available.
http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*193800885!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_nnr.html
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Aerobatics |
Bill,
After I hit the submit button I realized I left my self open for your comment.
I do that a lot.
Terry,
My planes empty weight when it was born in 1972 was a wopping 600 lbs.
My planes empty weight in March 2001 after I rebuilt it is 670 lbs. I can account
for nearly every pound added over the years. A lot of it is paint. Then
a bunch of other stuff over the years. My seat is a little heavier but it is
sure comfortable. I have a radio and a much bigger tail wheel and a glider tow
hook. Just a bunch of stuff that adds up.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437533#437533
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: first air camper year |
Mine is NX1929T...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Jan 23, 2015, at 12:57 PM, "wheelharp" <wheelharp@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> It will be a long time away, but just for fun, I am thinking of possible paint
scheme numbers. I have seen people use the year 1928 in reference to the Piet,
but I would like to use 1927...the year my dad was born, and Lindbergh crossing.
>
> I am confused on the history...Wikipedia shows first flight in 1928, but BHP
family website shows '27 for model T engine, and '29 for model A. Here is text
copied from there-
>
> Finally, on September 1st, 1927, Bernard and Don Finke successes fully flew their
new design. It was powered by an aluminum 16-value Model T engine (ironically
called "the Ace" conversion) developed by Horace Keane. At 30 horsepower,
it was capable of getting two men into the air and safely back on the ground.
It was a step in the right direction, but still Bernard believed it needed additional
power.
>
> By now Henry Ford had come out with his new car, the Model A, powered by a bigger
four cylinder engine. At an estimated 40 horsepower, this engine seemed just
the thing for Bernard Pietenpol's new aircraft design's needs, and having
been on the market for several years, junk yards were starting to get as many
of them as Model T engines.
>
> So Bernard Pietenpol went to work converting the Ford Model A engine for his
new monoplane. In May 1929 Bernard Pietenpol test flew his Air Camper with the
new engine.
>
> Any thoughts on this? I tried archives, and call me lazy, but I gave up a few
topics into the 50,092 returns I got :)
>
> --------
> Jon Jones
> Ironton, MO
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437530#437530
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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It's seems like these discussions always turn into a China vs USA debate.
I wasn't asking about brands. ( I have a Miller 211). I was just wondering wether
a Tig or Mig process would be better suited to building a Piet. It seems like
all the fittings are made from steel as far as I can tell. I was thinking a
Mig welder would be fine putting these parts together.
I understand a TIG welder would probably have better looking welds because of the
better control.
Message 9
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Mike,
If you own a great tig welder, and know how to use it, I don't understand what
would be the consideration for making any Piet part with a mig welder.
.
I have all kinds of welders in my hangar, there is a steel tube fuselage for a Piet out there right now, I have welded several others and made several dozen mounts, a pile of gear legs, fittings and stainless exhausts : http://flycorvair.net/2012/11/08/pietenpol-products-motor-mounts-gear-and-instalation-components/ and I would not chose a mig to make any of it if Tig was readily available
.
I am tired right now, but I can not think of a single welded aluminum structural
fitting on a light plane. Even aluminum lift struts on certified planes have
bolt in fittings. There is probably an exception to this, but for the most part
welding fittings on light planes are steel.
.
Although you might not like it, making builders aware that they need to be vigilant around Chinese products for flying is important. This isn't abstract political bashing from me because they are a giant police state. It is first hand, real world observation. Get a look at this http://flycorvair.net/2012/01/15/chinese-crankshafts/
I am not going to apologize for reminding builders to be vigilant, especially when
the distributor goes out of their way to obscure the origins of the part.
-ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437540#437540
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| Subject: | Re: Piet list and BPA slowly dying? |
I have been hesitant to post for some time. I don't consider myself as an oldtimer
on the list but I have built and fly my
Pietenpol nearly every week. I love this list and sure don't want to hurt anyone's
feelings. I had occasion to want to
tell a guy what I thought and didn't for the sake of our Piet list and not continueing
to fan the flames. My Dad had a saying
that the more you stir poop the more it stinks and if you keep stirring it you
will get some on you.
I agree with Terry about the archives. I had a heck of a time finding anything
I really wanted to know about. So that said if any list user is not comfortable
posting a question drop me an email (jdotson at centurylink.net) or call me
850 537 5380
and I will answer your questions to the best I can and I will not snow you with
BS answers. I don't know is my answer if I don't know instead of blowing snow
or smoke. I have hundreds of pictures I will share as "this is how I did it".
There are a lot of fine people on our list. May, 2009 I saw and read Matt Paxton's
build "Wooden It Be Lovely?". I found
his email somewhere and asked him a lot of questions. Matt also sent pictures of
his Piet almost ready to cover. He was very
gracious and he started dropping names like Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips as well
as their email addresses. Guess what, both
got mail in their inboxes. Jack and Mike were very nice to me offering advice and
encouragement and sent me high resolution
picures of their Piets. Within 2 weeks I had a set of Bernard's and Orrin's plans
in my hands. I printed out those pictures
then and they are still in my hangar as a reminder to help homebuilders as best
I can. Then came Ben Charvet,Gary Boothe,
John Recine and Gardiner Mason. Peter Wright of the UK Pietenpol Club helped me
with the O-235 Lycoming install with
drawings of the engine mount. Dan Helsper, Jim Boyer, Jim Markle, Douwe Blumberg,
Chris Tracy and the list just goes on.
The point I am trying to make is we have the greatest bunch of people on our list
that you can find anywhere. All these people
helped me in some way.
Douwe started a great discussion but lets keep it going in the positive direction
we seem to be heading now. We all have something in common.
On a sad note I hear Gardiner Mason has had a stroke. I will call his wife to see
how he is doing.
Jerry
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437545#437545
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Piet list and BPA slowly dying? |
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but of course Facebook is taking over and
causing the decline of a lot of forums. It's one stop shopping, a place to get
all of the aviation news you want from many specific parts of the one site.
There are several Pietenpol groups, one with 700 members, and one with 522.
Lots of good pictures, news, and builder info. And that's where the young types
look for info...
We started a page there for our restoration of Pietenpol 14143
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pietenpol-14143/
-
--------
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437547#437547
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