Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Thu 02/05/15


Total Messages Posted: 4



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:05 PM - Re: Hot Mag Fatality. (AircamperN11MS)
     2. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Hot Mag Fatality. (Marcus Zechini)
     3. 01:01 PM - Re: Hot Mag Fatality. (AircamperN11MS)
     4. 06:24 PM - Notes for new handprop builders (William Wynne)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:05:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Hot Mag Fatality.
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    William, As a tech counselor for EAA the past 20 years or so I run across a few planes that folks have botched up the wiring as described by you. Most guys will listen and make the correct changes. There are very few that won't. I live in an area that is full of aerospace employees of all trades. They work at places like Northrup, Lockheed, NASA and the Air force. The list goes on and on. Mechanics, Pilots, Test Pilots, Engineers of all sorts. These guys have seen what can happen if things are not done correctly. The guys around here are very sharp and do all the right things to make their plane very safe. It makes my Tech visits very pleasurable. All your points are very valid and I am glad you shared them. Most all of us with Piets hand prop our planes. We get very comfortable around our own planes. We can hear them talking to us and they tell us when they are ready to run, or if we have a low cylinder. All kinds of stuff. I just wanted to share my story with everyone to remind them that what we do can hurt you, and to always be prepared for that engine to fire up anytime you are around that prop. We all have our stories. Thank you for sharing yours. I have found that if I can learn from mistakes others have made before me, that perhaps I'll live longer. Now lets go flying everyone. It's over 70 degrees here in So. California. Happy landings, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438091#438091


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:45:57 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Hot Mag Fatality.
    From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini@gmail.com>
    Scott, went out after work, here in northern VA, as it was 54 degrees. Can you weigh in on the practice of going backwards a few blades? I see that compression & impulse mags could override one's perceived safety in that endeavor. On Feb 5, 2015 3:09 PM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote: > Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > William, > > As a tech counselor for EAA the past 20 years or so I run across a few > planes that folks have botched up the wiring as described by you. Most > guys will listen and make the correct changes. There are very few that > won't. I live in an area that is full of aerospace employees of all > trades. They work at places like Northrup, Lockheed, NASA and the Air > force. The list goes on and on. Mechanics, Pilots, Test Pilots, Engineers > of all sorts. These guys have seen what can happen if things are not done > correctly. The guys around here are very sharp and do all the right things > to make their plane very safe. It makes my Tech visits very pleasurable. > > All your points are very valid and I am glad you shared them. Most all of > us with Piets hand prop our planes. We get very comfortable around our own > planes. We can hear them talking to us and they tell us when they are ready > to run, or if we have a low cylinder. All kinds of stuff. > > I just wanted to share my story with everyone to remind them that what we > do can hurt you, and to always be prepared for that engine to fire up > anytime you are around that prop. > > We all have our stories. Thank you for sharing yours. I have found that > if I can learn from mistakes others have made before me, that perhaps I'll > live longer. > > Now lets go flying everyone. It's over 70 degrees here in So. California. > > Happy landings, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438091#438091 > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:01:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Hot Mag Fatality.
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    Marcus, I never turn my engine backwards. I used to do that but have found a better way of clearing a flooded Cont. engine. To answer your question. Once the coil in the Magneto is charged it can fire and hurt you if the mags are not grounded. When the points break then you will get a spark to the plugs no mater which direction you turn the engine. By turning the engine backwards you are also pushing all the oil from the oil pump back into the oil tank. I need to run to a meeting right now. More later if you want. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438093#438093


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:24:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Notes for new handprop builders
    From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
    Most old School guys will know this stuff, but here are Some resources for people new to hand propping: ( I ask forgiveness in advance if the overlaps the previous posts of others) . Below are a few links that may help builders looking a Continental options. I actually have more flight hours behind Centennials that I do behind Corvairs. I like everything about Centennials except for the new owners.My wife Grace has owned a C-85 powered BC-12D for 16 years. To make it easier for her to use solo, it is set up with a total loss starting system that doesn't weigh much. A few years ago we set it up to tow our single seat 1954 Schweitzer 1-26 glider. Along the way we picked up some info that might be of use to a new Piet guy. This story is kind of a companion piece to one I wrote on July 6th called "Carbs, mags and Certified engines." It should be here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104226&highlight=mags+wynne+navion . Grace's plane is set up with a tow hook on the tail spring. Because it is certified, we used a very expensive Schweitzer hook, (they are $500-$1000 used) You can buy the mechanically identical item from these people: http://www.wingsunlimitedtowhooks.com/ for Experimentals.for half that. You could make your own, but it is something you will be trusting your life to. If I was building a hand prop plane, it would have one of these. They weigh about a pound. Start the plane and get in with it tied down solo, and then pull the cockpit cable and go. A few lengths of disposable nylon rope in the glove box, and you can stop for lunch somewhere and just leave the nylon rope behind. Vastly better than any kind of wheel chocks for propping. . Funny story: Friend of ours who is a well known aviation journalist totaled a PZL Wilga in a landing accident he was very embarrassed of. Years later he is hand propping a Varga with a dead battery. It jumps the chocks, drives across a large airport and makes a very successful unmanned strike on a tied down Mooney. After finding that no one was hurt, the man feels horrible realizing that he has now destroyed three aircraft in his career. His friends console him on email by pointing out that he only has two more to destroy before his is an "Ace." . Critical to flying a hand prop plane is a carb that will ALWAYS idle Too many people are taught to fly power on approaches, which most old school instructors consider very poor form and potentially dangerous behavior in a hand prop plane. If you try this, and a hand prop plane quits on final, they might name the overrun in your memory. Key here is having a 1st class carb. I would not fly an experimental carb on a hand prop plane, particularly not with a pilot taught to fly power on approaches. It is a bad combination To read up on carbs, there are a dozen stories here: http://flycorvair.net/2013/12/03/carburetor-reference-page/ Look at Strombergs and MA3's. Do not be temped to using something like a posa or an aerocarb. . On the topic of flying approaches, if you don't own and understand this book: http://flycorvair.net/2013/05/25/greatest-book-on-flying-ever-written-is-your-life-worth-16/ do yourself a very big favor, buy it read it, study it, and really know it. It was written 71 years ago about real Airmanship, it is period correct for Pietenpols. If you would like to make the engine easier to hand prop, help the CG, and noticeably improve the performance of the plane, look at a metal prop. I switched from a Wood Sensenich 72-48 to this model prop on the Taylorcraft when we set it up for the glider: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_982818_McCauley+Prop++++++.html I bought one at the SnF flymart for $300, but I would not fly it that way. I took it to a certified prop shop owned by a friend and told I wanted it pitched incredibly low, that I would not complain about the rpm no matter how high it was. He told me that the lowest legal pitch was 42", and my response was "Then, I guess that is what the paperwork will say." My estimate is that it is in the 40-38" range. This hits 2575 on the takeoff roll. It increased the rate of climb by more than 50%, but most impressive, it shortened the ground roll from 350' to 140'. If you don't look at the tach to closely, the plane will still do 95-100 mph. If I was building a Cont. Piet, I would used the same prop. BTW, it comes as 74" for 65hp engines, but it works much better at 71" on any engine 75hp and up. Don't take my word for it, there have been countless tests done on Cubs to verify this. . On a C series Continental, you can have just a starter by no charging system. Graces' 85hp has been this way for 15 years. It uses this starter: http://www.bandc.biz/continentalstarter12vhomebuilt.aspx which isn't cheap but it is a heck of a lot lighter and requires less amps than the stock starter. We use an Odyssey 680 sized battery, which is about half the size and weight of a standard aircraft Gill battery, but I think it would work fine with a PC-545 sized battery. It will actually get 50-75 starts between chargings. . If you are looking for alternative batteries, We have flown Deka SLA batteries for years, they are good, cheap and made in the US. We have also used Interstate SLA-1116 batteries, it fits in an odyssey 680 sized box, and is half the money. The last one we had took 8 years to get tired. The Deka site is: http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/about/facilities/ . -ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438105#438105




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