Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - Re: Re: Hot Mag Fatality. (danhelsper@aol.com)
2. 12:40 PM - Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? (dfwplt)
3. 01:02 PM - Cub Fuel Tank from project (tkreiner)
4. 01:14 PM - Air Camper vs SLSA (taildrags)
5. 01:23 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (AircamperN11MS)
6. 01:24 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
7. 01:27 PM - Re: Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? (Charles N. Campbell)
8. 01:54 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (AircamperN11MS)
9. 01:55 PM - Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project (Ben Charvet)
10. 03:03 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (taildrags)
11. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
12. 05:28 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (wheelharp)
13. 05:29 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (wheelharp)
14. 05:32 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (taildrags)
15. 06:07 PM - Re: Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? (Jack)
16. 06:59 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (Ray Krause)
17. 07:07 PM - Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project (Ray Krause)
18. 07:54 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (wheelharp)
19. 08:03 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (wheelharp)
20. 09:17 PM - Re: Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? (William Wynne)
21. 09:45 PM - Ray Krause (Gary Boothe)
22. 10:17 PM - Re: Air Camper vs SLSA (William Wynne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hot Mag Fatality. |
I will chime in with another educational story.
It was Brodhead 2013 I think. It had been a long day of giving one ride after another.
I had taken a lunch break, and the Model A had turned cold. So I climbed
back in with the next passenger in line. One of the older members (and very
experienced) of our group volunteered to prop me. So I said what I always do
in this situation, "Turn the prop through four blades with the mags off". So he
dutifully does just what I asked, then I, without further thought, turned the
mag switch to "on", anticipating he would pause before touching the prop once
again....WRONG! We were both very surprised when he grabs the prop again without
missing a beat and the A predictably fires off! I assure you he was startled
by the look in his eyes, and I shuddered when I thought what might have happened
to a man who's aging reflexes might not have allowed his body to get out
of the way. That bullet was dodged....and a lesson learned.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
Sent: Thu, Feb 5, 2015 3:03 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hot Mag Fatality.
Marcus,
I never turn my engine backwards. I used to do that but have found a better way
of clearing a flooded Cont. engine.
To answer your question. Once the coil in the Magneto is charged it can fire and
hurt you if the mags are not grounded. When the points break then you will
get a spark to the plugs no mater which direction you turn the engine. By turning
the engine backwards you are also pushing all the oil from the oil pump
back into the oil tank. I need to run to a meeting right now. More later if
you want.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438093#438093
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| Subject: | Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? |
I'll have trips in the next couple weeks to Anderson, SC and Newton, NC and wonder
if there are any Piet People in the area? Flying into/out of Charlotte.
Jim in Pryor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438120#438120
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| Subject: | Cub Fuel Tank from project |
A SE TX project plane is available, and for the right $$$, I might be interested
in getting it. Project has ribs, two sets of spars, steel tube fuse, and a
box full of extra tubing, etc. The tank is a new, unused J3 Cub tank, and it
still has stickers on it...
So, the question is: is anyone using a J3 Cub fuel tank in their Piet? If so,
please let me know your experience, i.e., not enough fuel, just right, etc., also,
let me know whether it's a drop in, or requires a lot of work to use.
Since I have a fuse, the steel tube fuse might become available.
Thanks,
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438121#438121
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| Subject: | Air Camper vs SLSA |
So I was catching up on my stack of reading on a recent commercial flight and I
get to a page in Flying magazine where they are showing a very special deal...
a Quicksilver Sport 2SE, only $39,999. It's a 2-place, open cockpit, double-surface
wing, strut braced. 65HP, 1000 lb. max takeoff weight, cruises at a
max of about 60 MPH. Sounds a lot like an Air Camper, right?
Considering that I'm going to be offering my Air Camper for sale for something
a little south of $10k, this means I could possibly find four Air Campers for
the price of one new SLSA, and I could fly a different airplane every other day
of the week if I wanted to.
There is something in my mind that cannot understand this, but I'm hoping it's
only because I'm in early- to mid-geezerhood and this is normal for us.
Oh, and also- a simple "glass panel" instrument for an LSA, plus an ADS-B gadget,
seem to add up to the same cost as my Air Camper. It's a good thing I'm headed
for senility... that's probably the only way any of this will make sense.
I'm glad it's Friday.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438123#438123
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Oscar,
Have you been swimming around inside my head???????
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438124#438124
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Its easy. Why would you drive a Bentley for upwards of $300,000 when you
could drive a dozen Chevrolets or Fords or whatever for that price? Don't
you hold your pinkies out when you fly?
dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: taildrags
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper vs SLSA
So I was catching up on my stack of reading on a recent commercial flight
and I get to a page in Flying magazine where they are showing a very special
deal... a Quicksilver Sport 2SE, only $39,999. It's a 2-place, open
cockpit, double-surface wing, strut braced. 65HP, 1000 lb. max takeoff
weight, cruises at a max of about 60 MPH. Sounds a lot like an Air Camper,
right?
Considering that I'm going to be offering my Air Camper for sale for
something a little south of $10k, this means I could possibly find four Air
Campers for the price of one new SLSA, and I could fly a different airplane
every other day of the week if I wanted to.
There is something in my mind that cannot understand this, but I'm hoping
it's only because I'm in early- to mid-geezerhood and this is normal for us.
Oh, and also- a simple "glass panel" instrument for an LSA, plus an ADS-B
gadget, seem to add up to the same cost as my Air Camper. It's a good thing
I'm headed for senility... that's probably the only way any of this will
make sense.
I'm glad it's Friday.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438123#438123
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| Subject: | Re: Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? |
Jim, I live in Salisbury, NC which is about 40 miles from Charlotte up
Interstate 85. I have a Piet about done except for welding up the landing
gear and engine mount. After that I'll get an IA to look at it and then
comes the covering. Would love to meet you. Chuck
On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:40 PM, dfwplt <jim_markle@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> I'll have trips in the next couple weeks to Anderson, SC and Newton, NC
> and wonder if there are any Piet People in the area? Flying into/out of
> Charlotte.
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438120#438120
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Wow,
The Quicksilver does everything a Piet does, but only slower. Did you notice that
the TBO on the engine is only 300 hours????? The stall speed is 38 MPH, I
think most Piets stall a lot slower than that. Oscar, Please burn that rag of
an article so nobody else can read it. Geesh, Some people will buy most anything.
I hope I have not offended anyone on this list that may have one. It is Friday
and the list is always slow on Fridays. I think Fridays should be our "we can
say what we want day without offending". All in fun folks.
Cheers all,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438130#438130
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| Subject: | Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project |
I'm using a J3 tank. It was an easy fit amd 12 gallons is more than i need
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 4:02 PM, tkreiner <tkreiner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> A SE TX project plane is available, and for the right $$$, I might be interested
in getting it. Project has ribs, two sets of spars, steel tube fuse, and
a box full of extra tubing, etc. The tank is a new, unused J3 Cub tank, and it
still has stickers on it...
>
> So, the question is: is anyone using a J3 Cub fuel tank in their Piet? If so,
please let me know your experience, i.e., not enough fuel, just right, etc.,
also, let me know whether it's a drop in, or requires a lot of work to use.
>
> Since I have a fuse, the steel tube fuse might become available.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438121#438121
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Dennis;
I do not hold my pinkies out when I fly. I have found that it adds drag and slows
the airplane when I do that.
I am not out to bad-mouth anyone else's favorite airplane; not at all. The point
I wanted to make is that the Pietenpol Air Camper has a fantastic cost-to-benefit
ratio. My other point was that neither a glass panel nor ADS-B gadget
does anything to make me a better pilot or the airplane a better performer, but
they certainly cost plenty of money.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438136#438136
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
I understood, I was trying to be tongue in cheek but you know how the
interweb is, you can't show humor.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: taildrags
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 5:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Air Camper vs SLSA
Dennis;
I do not hold my pinkies out when I fly. I have found that it adds drag and
slows the airplane when I do that.
I am not out to bad-mouth anyone else's favorite airplane; not at all. The
point I wanted to make is that the Pietenpol Air Camper has a fantastic
cost-to-benefit ratio. My other point was that neither a glass panel nor
ADS-B gadget does anything to make me a better pilot or the airplane a
better performer, but they certainly cost plenty of money.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438136#438136
---
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Oscar,
You are going to put NX41CC up for sale?
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438141#438141
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Oscar,
You are going to put NX41CC up for sale?
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438142#438142
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Yes, Scout will be up for sale this spring. I'm not even bothering with it right
now, since it's still cold and rainy up here in the PacNW, but come springtime
it's going to be available. I have two other projects waiting for me in the
hangar and I'll never work on them if I have an airplane to fly.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438143#438143
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? |
Jim,
I'm in Gilbert, SC. That's about an hour away. It's just west of Columbia.
You're welcome anytime if you like. My airplane is finished and waiting for the
DAR on the 14th.
Jack
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 3:40 PM, dfwplt <jim_markle@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'll have trips in the next couple weeks to Anderson, SC and Newton, NC and wonder
if there are any Piet People in the area? Flying into/out of Charlotte.
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438120#438120
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Oscar,
I could just buy your plane and part it out for more than 10K! Hmm, engine 10K,
turn buckles $500, wheels $300, instruments $800, prop $1000, your time ZILTCH.
Had a great visit with Gary Boothe today. Poor guy had to listen to my blabbing
for about two hours! Too big a price to pay for a breakfast!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 1:14 PM, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> So I was catching up on my stack of reading on a recent commercial flight and
I get to a page in Flying magazine where they are showing a very special deal...
a Quicksilver Sport 2SE, only $39,999. It's a 2-place, open cockpit, double-surface
wing, strut braced. 65HP, 1000 lb. max takeoff weight, cruises at
a max of about 60 MPH. Sounds a lot like an Air Camper, right?
>
> Considering that I'm going to be offering my Air Camper for sale for something
a little south of $10k, this means I could possibly find four Air Campers for
the price of one new SLSA, and I could fly a different airplane every other
day of the week if I wanted to.
>
> There is something in my mind that cannot understand this, but I'm hoping it's
only because I'm in early- to mid-geezerhood and this is normal for us.
>
> Oh, and also- a simple "glass panel" instrument for an LSA, plus an ADS-B gadget,
seem to add up to the same cost as my Air Camper. It's a good thing I'm
headed for senility... that's probably the only way any of this will make sense.
>
> I'm glad it's Friday.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438123#438123
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project |
I'm using one in the Sky Scout, but had to cut a triangle piece off the bott
om rear area, now it holds only 10 gals. Easy installation.
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 1:55 PM, Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm using a J3 tank. It was an easy fit amd 12 gallons is more than i need
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 4:02 PM, tkreiner <tkreiner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> A SE TX project plane is available, and for the right $$$, I might be int
erested in getting it. Project has ribs, two sets of spars, steel tube fuse
, and a box full of extra tubing, etc. The tank is a new, unused J3 Cub tan
k, and it still has stickers on it...
>>
>> So, the question is: is anyone using a J3 Cub fuel tank in their Piet? I
f so, please let me know your experience, i.e., not enough fuel, just right,
etc., also, let me know whether it's a drop in, or requires a lot of work t
o use.
>>
>> Since I have a fuse, the steel tube fuse might become available.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --------
>> Tom Kreiner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438121#438121
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
If I wasn't so looking forward to building my own Piet, I would jump on that deal
so fast your head would spin : )
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438148#438148
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
If I wasn't so looking forward to building my own Piet, I would jump on that deal
so fast your head would spin : )
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438149#438149
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| Subject: | Re: Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? |
If you are headed over to see Jack in Gilbert, Barnwell is about 45 more minutes
south. It is the home of two flying Corvair powered Pietempols, P.F. Beck's:
http://flycorvair.net/2014/11/16/the-cherry-grove-trophy-2014/
.
and Don Harper's
http://flycorvair.net/2013/01/17/nwe-pietenpol-2700-corvair-don-harper-sc/
Tim Freer is the airport manager, he knows both men well, you can touch base with
him and make sure they are around. All three men are the central crew that
are the local host of the 5 Corvair Colleges we have held in Barnwell. I am not
sure if Jack is at the White Plains airport (I think it is in Gilbert) but that
was the Location of Corvair Colleges #12 and #16. With local host Ed and Val
Fisher. A friendly residential airport.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438151#438151
Message 21
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"Had a great visit with Gary Boothe today. Poor guy had to listen to my
blabbing for about two hours! Too big a price to pay for a breakfast!"
I think I have posted these pictures before of Ray's absolutely impeccable
Waiex, and his Sky Scout, now getting fabric. You can bet that when Ray has
something to say, I'll be listening!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper vs SLSA
--> <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Oscar,
I could just buy your plane and part it out for more than 10K! Hmm, engine
10K, turn buckles $500, wheels $300, instruments $800, prop $1000, your time
ZILTCH.
Had a great visit with Gary Boothe today. Poor guy had to listen to my
blabbing for about two hours! Too big a price to pay for a breakfast!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 1:14 PM, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> --> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> So I was catching up on my stack of reading on a recent commercial flight
and I get to a page in Flying magazine where they are showing a very special
deal... a Quicksilver Sport 2SE, only $39,999. It's a 2-place, open
cockpit, double-surface wing, strut braced. 65HP, 1000 lb. max takeoff
weight, cruises at a max of about 60 MPH. Sounds a lot like an Air Camper,
right?
>
> Considering that I'm going to be offering my Air Camper for sale for
something a little south of $10k, this means I could possibly find four Air
Campers for the price of one new SLSA, and I could fly a different airplane
every other day of the week if I wanted to.
>
> There is something in my mind that cannot understand this, but I'm hoping
it's only because I'm in early- to mid-geezerhood and this is normal for us.
>
> Oh, and also- a simple "glass panel" instrument for an LSA, plus an ADS-B
gadget, seem to add up to the same cost as my Air Camper. It's a good thing
I'm headed for senility... that's probably the only way any of this will
make sense.
>
> I'm glad it's Friday.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
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> Read this topic online here:
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> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438123#438123
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Oz,
The math says building a Pietenpol is poor investment of one's money, While the
heart says that it is an excellent investment in one's life. As you well know,
you can figure out costs with a calculator, but the can not measure value, which
is best done with that organ in your chest.
.
Consider that a $3,000 overhaul at 300 hrs is about twice the hourly amortization
rate of a Lycoming. which will cost four times as much but go eight times as
long, to say nothing about down time nor reliability.
.
I have 3 close friends at our airport, Dan Weseman, Vern Stevenson and Alex Follen,
who each flew hundreds of hours behind two stroke Rotaxes in the 1990s. They
are all super mechanical guys, alert to fine signals of an issue, all into
extreme maintenance. They liked those engines, but I have to think that any two
stroke engine is a poor match for a typical S-LSA buyer who might like flying,
but has no real interest in nuts and bolts. Conversely, I think a big part
of the success story of planes like J-3's was the fact the A-65 (or 75) on the
front of your Piet, required no such special attention when it was the "S-LSA"
of it's day.
.
In 1946, almost every modest sized or larger airport in the US had a professional mechanic ready and skilled in the care and feeding of the A-65 for the "S-LSA" pilot of that day. Today, no such service system exists to support a non-mechanical flyer trying to operate a $40K plane with a two stroke Rotax power plant. (there isn't really one for the 912 either) Yes, there are plenty of people who have been through some 20-40 hour Rotax training session, but suggesting such a person is then qualified to determine what is airworthly on a human carrying aircraft is a morbid joke. My A&P from Embry-Riddle had an FAA mandated 2,880 classroom and lab hours. If I suggested to the department chair Dick Ulm, USMC ( http://flycorvair.net/2014/02/23/erau-models-of-integrity/ ) that I was ready to work on planes at the end of my first week in the program, he would have laughed his ass off....and then probably punched my lights out.
.
Real Homebuilders, people in it to learn build and Fly, are immune to the vulnerabilities
of typical S-LSA flyers, who are often just looking for another mechanical
toy. Homebuilders are looking for freedom in all it's forms, and this
includes educating oneself so you are free of being dependent on the availability
and quality of maintenance professionals. The quote below is the core of the
matter. Every few years they roll out a program to "get new people" interested
in flying. All of these programs that fail to acknowledge that the commitment
and motivation for success in aviation are higher, are bound to fail. Yet
they never stop trotting out the comparisons between the cost of S-LSA planes
and new boats, as if the whole issue can be solved with a calculator, ignoring
the organ in the chest.
.
------------------------------------------------
.
At any real level, flying is not a sport, a hobby a pastime nor entertainment.
It is an Endeavor, worthy of every hour of your life you invest; Those that dabble
in it find only high cost, poor reward and serious risk. They are approaching
it as consumers. Conversely, for those who devote their best efforts and
their serious commitment, the rewards are without compare.-ww
.
(From the 'thought for the day' http://flycorvair.net/2015/01/12/thought-for-the-day-collection/)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438153#438153
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