---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/19/15: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:19 AM - VNE at cruise (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 06:32 AM - Re: VNE at cruise (Boatright, Jeffrey) 3. 08:02 AM - Re: VNE at cruise (Jack Philips) 4. 08:10 AM - Re: VNE at cruise (Jack Philips) 5. 08:28 AM - Re: VNE at cruise (Andre B. Charvet) 6. 10:11 AM - Re: VNE at cruise (Barry Davis) 7. 11:54 AM - Re: VNE at cruise (AircamperN11MS) 8. 11:59 AM - Re: VNE at cruise (Mike McGowan) 9. 12:03 PM - Re: VNE at cruise (Jeff Boatright) 10. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: VNE at cruise (Jack Philips) 11. 12:30 PM - Re: VNE at cruise (Ray Krause) 12. 01:11 PM - Re: VNE at cruise (Steven Dortch) 13. 01:37 PM - cruise speeds vs. engine choices (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 14. 05:55 PM - Re: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear (Charles Burkholder) 15. 07:13 PM - Re: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear (Boatright, Jeffrey) 16. 08:42 PM - Re: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 17. 08:55 PM - Re: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear (Gary Boothe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:47 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise About the only way I can imagine my Piet exceeding VNE at cruise is with a JATO pack strapped between the wheels! In all seriousness, I think aerodynamic mods are fine if they don't add weight and you find it an enjoyable pursuit. After all, fun is why we build these things. However, don't expect too much from them and I've often wondered if the extra effort and time added building, is worth an extra 3 kts cruising speed. I mean, when I'm chugging around for my average 30 minute summer flight, I couldn't care less how fast I'm going. The ONLY time I ever wish I had a few extra kts of speed is going to Brodhead, but even then it would only shave off ten-fifteen minutes or so. That being said.. I did spend an extra month fairing the axle and covering the wire wheels. I have NO idea how much it helped having not flown without those mods. The biggest thing I could do to improve my cruise speed would be to fair or reshape my wood struts which have a poor aerodynamic shape, but again, I've weighed the effort against the benefit and decided I'd rather spend the time flying her. I also experimented with some teardrop shaped clear plastic tubing to fair the round cables. I did my landing gear cables, then decided against doing the flying wires because it would destroy the vintage look. But I do think round wires make a ton of drag which could be at least halved by sleeving them. I think biggest drag inducers that could actually be helped are: struts, wheels, strut connections, axle, windscreens, foot pegs, cables. $.02 Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:30 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise U3dpdGNoaW5nIGZyb20gY2FudmFzLWNvdmVyZWQgYnVuZ2VlcyB0byBzcHJpbmdzIGRlZmluaXRl bHkgY2hhbmdlZCBob3cgbXkgUGlldCBiZWhhdmVzIHdoZW4gSSB0aHJvdHRsZSBiYWNrIGZvciBk ZXNjZW50IGluIHRoZSBwYXR0ZXJuLiBXaXRoIHRoZSBidW5nZWVzLCB0aGUgbm9zZSByZWFsbHkg ZHJvcHBlZCB3aGVuIEkgcHVsbGVkIHRoZSB0aHJvdHRsZSB0byBpZGxlLiBUaGlzIGVmZmVjdCBp cyBtdWNoIGxlc3MgcHJvbm91bmNlZCBhZnRlciB3ZSBzd2l0Y2hlZCB0byBzcHJpbmdzLg0KDQot LQ0KSmVmZnJleSBILiBCb2F0cmlnaHQsIFBoRCwgRkFSVk8NClByb2Zlc3NvciBvZiBPcGh0aGFs bW9sb2d5DQpFbW9yeSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IFNjaG9vbCBvZiBNZWRpY2luZQ0KDQpGcm9tOiBEb3V3 ZSBCbHVtYmVyZyA8ZG91d2VibHVtYmVyZ0BlYXJ0aGxpbmsubmV0PG1haWx0bzpkb3V3ZWJsdW1i 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Am I the only one who gets these? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia (where it was a balmy 8=C2=B0 this morning) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:03 AM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise Douwe, Of everything listed below, probably the biggest contributor to total drag on a Pietenpol is the array of cables hanging out in the breeze. A round cable being pushed through the air has a rather large drag coefficient. Streamlined flying wires for the inter-lift strut wires, the bracing wires on the tail, the roll wires between the cabanes and the bracing wires on the undercarriage (if using a straight axle) would help a good deal, but would also increase the cost of building a Pietenpol by about 50%. And nothing can be done about the elevator cables, rudder cables, tailwheel steering cables (if so equipped) and aileron cables that all hang out in the breeze. If you want something fast, build an RV or a Sonex. If you want low 'n' slow, build a Pietenpol. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:19 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise About the only way I can imagine my Piet exceeding VNE at cruise is with a JATO pack strapped between the wheels! In all seriousness, I think aerodynamic mods are fine if they don't add weight and you find it an enjoyable pursuit. After all, fun is why we build these things. However, don't expect too much from them and I've often wondered if the extra effort and time added building, is worth an extra 3 kts cruising speed. I mean, when I'm chugging around for my average 30 minute summer flight, I couldn't care less how fast I'm going. The ONLY time I ever wish I had a few extra kts of speed is going to Brodhead, but even then it would only shave off ten-fifteen minutes or so. That being said.. I did spend an extra month fairing the axle and covering the wire wheels. I have NO idea how much it helped having not flown without those mods. The biggest thing I could do to improve my cruise speed would be to fair or reshape my wood struts which have a poor aerodynamic shape, but again, I've weighed the effort against the benefit and decided I'd rather spend the time flying her. I also experimented with some teardrop shaped clear plastic tubing to fair the round cables. I did my landing gear cables, then decided against doing the flying wires because it would destroy the vintage look. But I do think round wires make a ton of drag which could be at least halved by sleeving them. I think biggest drag inducers that could actually be helped are: struts, wheels, strut connections, axle, windscreens, foot pegs, cables. $.02 Douwe ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise From: "Andre B. Charvet" Tm8sIEkgZ2V0IHRoZW0gdG9vCkJlbiBDaGFydmV0CgpKYWNrIFBoaWxpcHMgPGphY2tAYmVkZm9y ZGxhbmRpbmdzLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cj48IS0tIC8qIEZvbnQgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8gQGZvbnQt ZmFjZSAJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJDYW1icmlhIE1hdGgiOyAJcGFub3NlLTE6MiA0IDUgMyA1IDQg NiAzIDIgNDt9IEBmb250LWZhY2UgCXtmb250LWZhbWlseTpDYWxpYnJpOyAJcGFub3NlLTE6MiAx NSA1IDIgMiAyIDQgMyAyIDQ7fSAvKiBTdHlsZSBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLyBwLk1zb05vcm1hbCwg bGkuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBkaXYuTXNvTm9ybWFsIAl7bWFyZ2luOjBpbjsgCW1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206 LjAwMDFwdDsgCWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMS4wcHQ7IAlmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1z ZXJpZjt9IGE6bGluaywgc3Bhbi5Nc29IeXBlcmxpbmsgCXttc28tc3R5bGUtcHJpb3JpdHk6OTk7 IAljb2xvcjojMDU2M0MxOyAJdGV4dC1kZWNvcmF0aW9uOnVuZGVybGluZTt9IGE6dmlzaXRlZCwg c3Bhbi5Nc29IeXBlcmxpbmtGb2xsb3dlZCAJe21zby1zdHlsZS1wcmlvcml0eTo5OTsgCWNvbG9y OiM5NTRGNzI7IAl0ZXh0LWRlY29yYXRpb246dW5kZXJsaW5lO30gc3Bhbi5FbWFpbFN0eWxlMTcg CXttc28tc3R5bGUtdHlwZTpwZXJzb25hbC1yZXBseTsgCWZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJDYWxpYnJpIixz YW5zLXNlcmlmOyAJY29sb3I6IzFGNDk3RDt9IC5Nc29DaHBEZWZhdWx0IAl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5 cGU6ZXhwb3J0LW9ubHk7IAlmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjt9IEBwYWdl IFdvcmRTZWN0aW9uMSAJe3NpemU6OC41aW4gMTEuMGluOyAJbWFyZ2luOjEuMGluIDEuMGluIDEu MGluIDEuMGluO30gZGl2LldvcmRTZWN0aW9uMSAJe3BhZ2U6V29yZFNlY3Rpb24xO30gLS0+Cj4K PllldCBhbm90aGVyIGVtYWlsIGZyb20gSmVmZiBCb2F0cmlnaHQgd2l0aCBubyBjb250ZW50LsKg IEFtIEkgdGhlIG9ubHkgb25lIHdobyBnZXRzIHRoZXNlPwo+Cj7CoAo+Cj5KYWNrIFBoaWxsaXBz Cj4KPk5YODk5SlAKPgo+U21pdGggTW91bnRhaW4gTGFrZSwgVmlyZ2luaWEKPgo+KHdoZXJlIGl0 IHdhcyBhIGJhbG15IDjCsCB0aGlzIG1vcm5pbmcpCj4KPsKgCj4KPkZyb206IG93bmVyLXBpZXRl bnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86b3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxp c3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21dIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBCb2F0cmlnaHQsIEplZmZyZXkK PlNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBGZWJydWFyeSAxOSwgMjAxNSA5OjMyIEFNCj5UbzogcGlldGVucG9s LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQo+U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBWTkUgYXQg Y3J1aXNlCj4KPsKgCj4KPsKgCj4KPl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09IF8tPSAtIFRoZSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBFbWFp bCBGb3J1bSAtIF8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5hdmlnYXRvciB0 byBicm93c2UgXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJz Y3JpcHRpb24sIF8tPSBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJjaCAmIERvd25sb2FkLCA3LURheSBCcm93c2UsIENo YXQsIEZBUSwgXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNoIG11Y2ggbW9yZTogXy09IF8tPSAtLT4g aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBfLT0gXy09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT0gXy09IC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLSBfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFs c28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyEgXy09IF8tPSAtLT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVt cy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIF8tPSBfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PSBfLT0gLSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0 ZSAtIF8tPSBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCEgXy09IC1NYXR0IERy YWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4gXy09IC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJp YnV0aW9uIF8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09IA= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:50 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise I think Jeff is using invisible ink. I=99m have been getting blank ones from him for a while now. Thought I was the only one. Barry NX973BP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: VNE at cruise From: "AircamperN11MS" I see Jeff's just fine. But I am on a PC right now. Wonder if that matters? -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438509#438509 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:32 AM PST US From: "Mike McGowan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise Does covering the spokes on wire wheels make any difference in directional control or stability? Mike McGowan From: Barry Davis Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 12:11 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise I think Jeff is using invisible ink. I=99m have been getting blank on es from him for a while now. Thought I was the only one. Barry NX973BP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: VNE at cruise From: "Jeff Boatright" Several people apparently get blank posts from me. I think this happens sometimes when I reply directly to a matronics post by email. I am sending this message instead by going to the matronics webpage a replying via the form. My reply isn't earth-shattering. It was: Switching from canvas-covered bungees to springs definitely changed how my Piet behaves when I throttle back for descent in the pattern. With the bungees, the nose really dropped when I pulled the throttle to idle. This effect is much less pronounced after we switched to springs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438511#438511 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:20 PM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: VNE at cruise So am I. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: VNE at cruise --> I see Jeff's just fine. But I am on a PC right now. Wonder if that matters? -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438509#438509 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:20 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise To those with "covered wheels", how are they covered? With fabric or aluminu m discs? If fabric, does it just go around the bead of the rim and cement it in place? What happens when you have to repair a tire, just recover. Bassl e has aluminum discs for about $300, covering would be a lot cheaper! Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Feb 19, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Mike McGowan wrote: > > Does covering the spokes on wire wheels make any difference in directional control or stability? > > Mike McGowan > > From: Barry Davis > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 12:11 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise > > I think Jeff is using invisible ink. I=99m have been getting blank o nes from him for a while now. Thought I was the only one. > Barry > NX973BP > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:32 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise > > > > > ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ics.com > .matronics.com/contribution > > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise From: Steven Dortch Per my aerodynamacist, these vintage videos are an excellent source for information on drag. The professor's lecture voice is a killer, but he talks the talk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acySDnGYzVM&index=16&list=PL0EC6527BE 871ABA3 Blue Skies, Steve D On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Ray Krause wrote: > To those with "covered wheels", how are they covered? With fabric or > aluminum discs? If fabric, does it just go around the bead of the rim and > cement it in place? What happens when you have to repair a tire, just > recover. Bassle has aluminum discs for about $300, covering would be a l ot > cheaper! > > Thanks, > > Ray Krause > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 19, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Mike McGowan wrote: > > Does covering the spokes on wire wheels make any difference in > directional control or stability? > > Mike McGowan > > *From:* Barry Davis > *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2015 12:11 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise > > > I think Jeff is using invisible ink. I=99m have been getting blank ones from > him for a while now. Thought I was the only one. > > Barry > > NX973BP > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ > mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of *Boatright, > Jeffrey > *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:32 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise > > > * > > ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ics.com > .matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > ------------------------------ > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > * > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > npol-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > //forums.matronics.com > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > * > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:29 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: cruise speeds vs. engine choices Although I didn't consult with an aerodynamicist or look up any Vne speeds or drag coefficients, I have learned, thru my experience in flying Pietnepols that you're more likely to get passed up more quickly at cruise speeds by Canadian geese if flying a Ford powered Piet vs. a Contine ntal or Corvair powered Piet. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:36 PM PST US From: Charles Burkholder Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear Regarding bungee or spring landing gear. I am half done my split axle landing gear but not at quite the shock absorbers. I am leaning towards using steel spring due to the low maintenance "build, fly and forget" it offers. I was talking to a very experienced tailwheel pilot and instructor (not a homebuilder) about it and he recommended bungees. Could I have any input on the pro's and con's of each? How many of you builders have made the switch after your piet was built and why? If anything it might add 1 knot to the cruise speed! On 2/19/2015 9:31 AM, Boatright, Jeffrey wrote: > Switching from canvas-covered bungees to springs definitely changed > how my Piet behaves when I throttle back for descent in the pattern. > With the bungees, the nose really dropped when I pulled the throttle > to idle. This effect is much less pronounced after we switched to springs. > > -- > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > > From: Douwe Blumberg > > " > > Date: Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 9:19 AM > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com > " > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise > > About the only way I can imagine my Piet exceeding VNE at cruise > is with a JATO pack strapped between the wheels! > > In all seriousness, I think aerodynamic mods are fine if they > dont add weight and you find it an enjoyable pursuit. After all, > fun is why we build these things. However, dont expect too much > from them and Ive often wondered if the extra effort and time > added building, is worth an extra 3 kts cruising speed. I mean, > when Im chugging around for my average 30 minute summer flight, I > couldnt care less how fast Im going. The ONLY time I ever wish > I had a few extra kts of speed is going to Brodhead, but even then > it would only shave off ten-fifteen minutes or so. > > That being said. > > I did spend an extra month fairing the axle and covering the wire > wheels. I have NO idea how much it helped having not flown > without those mods. The biggest thing I could do to improve my > cruise speed would be to fair or reshape my wood struts which have > a poor aerodynamic shape, but again, Ive weighed the effort > against the benefit and decided Id rather spend the time flying > her. I also experimented with some teardrop shaped clear plastic > tubing to fair the round cables. I did my landing gear cables, > then decided against doing the flying wires because it would > destroy the vintage look. But I do think round wires make a ton > of drag which could be at least halved by sleeving them. > > I think biggest drag inducers that could actually be helped are: > struts, wheels, strut connections, axle, windscreens, foot pegs, > cables. > > $.02 > > Douwe > > * > > > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ky"Z+M4Gq(wrzKDKj',.+- > 5h,z^.+- Tn+bp+ry'C { ,x(ZP> -Zvkkj+ykym-&j',r5hRm-&j',r5hR08IaT1$+y\{^j)ZnWayg+k&j',r+k&j',rh*'gJ+^N*.~zw,h jY^.+-kym-&j',rr&*'i0fr((nb{nrf -- Charles Burkholder Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:28 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear SGFkIGJ1bmdlZXMuIEJ1bmdlZXMgZGlkbid0IHBhc3MgaW5zcGVjdGlvbiBvbmUgeWVhci4gQ29u 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TWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3Mu Y29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Hi Jeffrey Do you have any particulars on the springs you used? Source would be hel pful too. Thanks, Glen Aerial in progress (Fuse becomes a box this week end!) Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 19, 2015, at 7:12 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" wrote: > > Had bungees. Bungees didn't pass inspection one year. Converted to springs (they were free to me). No maintenance. No difference in landing performanc e that I can tell. > > =C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3 =A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2 =82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC =9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC =9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3 =A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2 =82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC =9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC =9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D=C3=A2=82=AC=9D > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem > > On Feb 19, 2015, at 8:59 PM, "Charles Burkholder" wrote: > >> Regarding bungee or spring landing gear. I am half done my split axle lan ding gear but not at quite the shock absorbers. I am leaning towards using s teel spring due to the low maintenance "build, fly and forget" it offers. I w as talking to a very experienced tailwheel pilot and instructor (not a homeb uilder) about it and he recommended bungees. >> Could I have any input on the pro's and con's of each? How many of you bu ilders have made the switch after your piet was built and why? If anything i t might add 1 knot to the cruise speed! >>> On 2/19/2015 9:31 AM, Boatright, Jeffrey wrote: >>> Switching from canvas-covered bungees to springs definitely changed how m y Piet behaves when I throttle back for descent in the pattern. With the bun gees, the nose really dropped when I pulled the throttle to idle. This effec t is much less pronounced after we switched to springs. >>> >>> -- >>> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO >>> Professor of Ophthalmology >>> Emory University School of Medicine >>> >>> From: Douwe Blumberg >>> Date: Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 9:19 AM >>> To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: VNE at cruise >>> >>> About the only way I can imagine my Piet exceeding VNE at cruise is with a JATO pack strapped between the wheels! >>> >>> In all seriousness, I think aerodynamic mods are fine if they don=C3=A2 =82=AC=84=A2t add weight and you find it an enjoyable pursuit. After all , fun is why we build these things. However, don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t e xpect too much from them and I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve often wondered if t he extra effort and time added building, is worth an extra 3 kts cruising sp eed. I mean, when I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m chugging around for my average 30 minute summer flight, I couldn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t care less how fa st I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m going. The ONLY time I ever wish I had a few e xtra kts of speed is going to Brodhead, but even then it would only shave of f ten-fifteen minutes or so. >>> >>> That being said=C3=A2=82=AC=C2. >>> >>> I did spend an extra month fairing the axle and covering the wire wheels . I have NO idea how much it helped having not flown without those mods. T he biggest thing I could do to improve my cruise speed would be to fair or r eshape my wood struts which have a poor aerodynamic shape, but again, I=C3=A2 =82=AC=84=A2ve weighed the effort against the benefit and decided I=C3 =A2=82=AC=84=A2d rather spend the time flying her. I also experimente d with some teardrop shaped clear plastic tubing to fair the round cables. I did my landing gear cables, then decided against doing the flying wires bec ause it would destroy the vintage look. But I do think round wires make a t on of drag which could be at least halved by sleeving them. >>> >>> I think biggest drag inducers that could actually be helped are: struts, wheels, strut connections, axle, windscreens, foot pegs, cables. >>> >>> $.02 >>> >>> Douwe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of >>> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged >>> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended >>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution >>> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly >>> prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this message in error, please contact >>> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the >>> original message (including attachments). >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> 02/19/15 >>> >>> ky=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD"=C3=AF=C2=C2 =BD=C3=AD=C5=93=C2=A2Z+=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDM4=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDG=C3=AF=C2=C2 =BDq=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD(=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD =C3=AF=C2=C2=BDw=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDr=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3 =AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=93=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2 =C2=BDz=C3=97=C2=A7=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDK=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3 =AF=C2=C2=BDD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=16=C3 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=C2=BDf=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2 =BDr=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD(=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD(=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD =C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDn=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDb=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=7F =C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=9F=C2=A2{=7F=C3=AF =C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDn=C3=AF=C2=C2=BDr=C3=AF=C2 =C2=BD=1Bf >> >> -- >> Charles Burkholder >> Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ >> >> ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >> > )=C2=AD=C3=C3=9F=C2=A2{l=B97=C2=B6r=B0h=C2=AFM4=C3=93M=1Fi=C3 =87=C5=93=C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=ABN=17=C2=8F =B0=C3=AB^=C5=BE=C5=A1%.+-=12f=C2=A2=9DZ+=C2=BAe,z=C3=98^1=C2=AB k=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4W=C5=A1=C2=B6=C3=C3=9E=C2=B0=C3'=C2 =AF=C5-=06=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=BBhn=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3=ABazf=C2=A7=C3=88=C2=B8=C2=AC 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