Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:18 AM - Four-bladed prop (danhelsper@aol.com)
2. 04:29 AM - Re: Four-bladed prop (womenfly2)
3. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: Four-bladed prop (danhelsper@aol.com)
4. 05:47 AM - Re: Visit with Chuck Campbell (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
5. 06:15 AM - Re: Visit with Chuck Campbell (goffelectric@comcast.net)
6. 07:28 AM - Vi's Piet (Douwe Blumberg)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: Four-bladed prop (Dave Abramson)
8. 10:44 AM - steel (Steven Dortch)
9. 10:59 AM - Re: Visit with Chuck Campbell (Charles N. Campbell)
10. 11:01 AM - Re: New member and a few questions already (Andy Garrett)
11. 11:01 AM - Re: Visit with Chuck Campbell (Charles N. Campbell)
12. 11:05 AM - Re: Four-bladed prop (Charles N. Campbell)
13. 11:16 AM - Re: steel (Jim Boyer)
14. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: New member and a few questions already (Jack Philips)
15. 12:56 PM - Re: steel (Catdesigns)
16. 01:45 PM - Re: New member and a few questions already (Andy Garrett)
17. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: New member and a few questions already (Jack Philips)
18. 03:17 PM - welding sticker shock (Steven Dortch)
19. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: New member and a few questions already (Steven Dortch)
20. 03:37 PM - Re: Four-bladed prop (bdewenter)
21. 09:10 PM - Re: Four-bladed prop (macz@peak.org)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Four-bladed prop |
Hello Pieter's,
As you might remember about two years ago I carved this prop from white ash, 44
pitch and 72" diameter. As it turned out it was too large and the ole model A
could only turn 1600 RPM and 220 lbs on the Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale(s).
I have now completed trimming each blade by 1-1/2" and really thinning the
blades also. It is now 69" diameter. I hope to test it in the coming weeks.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
What calculation did you do for the D X P? How about the soildarity of the prop
at RPM, being 4-blades you need to look at that.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438602#438602
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
I did no calculations. Only used anecdotal information from others (and my own
experience) What is soildarity? I am assuming you mean solidarity. Relying on
the glue to hold the thing together.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: womenfly2 <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 23, 2015 6:29 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Four-bladed prop
<Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
What calculation did you do for the D X P? How about
the soildarity of the prop at RPM, being 4-blades you need to look at
that.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online
here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438602#438602
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| Subject: | Visit with Chuck Campbell |
Jim-- what a GREAT story and photos about you visiting with Chuck Campbell!!!!
We are honored to have you among us Chuck and to be active, building and doing
your thing still is just fantastic.
On my wish list for this summer: to go visit Chuck Campbell!
Mike C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 7:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Visit with Chuck Campbell
I had a very special experience last evening. I had the pleasure of meeting Chuck
Campbell. Really enjoyed checking out his very close to plans (and ready
to cover) Pietenpol Air Camper. A very special gentleman.
What a treat!
Even walked out the door with a neat Pietenpol clock! Oh relax, he gave it to
me!
Seriously, I am honored to have spent an evening with my new Pietenpol friend and
WW II veteran Chuck Campbell.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Visit with Chuck Campbell |
I met Chuck at Corvair College in Barnwell where he ran his engine for the
first time. He is a great guy! You definitly want to make that trip to meet
him this summer.
Keith Goff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D. Cuy (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nas
a.gov>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 8:47:13 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Visit with Chuck Campbell
artners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Jim-- what a GREAT story and photos about you visiting with Chuck Campbell!
!!!
We are honored to have you among us Chuck and to be active, building and do
ing your thing still =C2-is just fantastic.
On my wish list for this summer: =C2- to go visit Chuck Campbell!
Mike C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 7:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Visit with Chuck Campbell
I had a very special experience last evening. =C2-I had the pleasure of m
eeting =C2-Chuck Campbell. =C2-Really enjoyed checking out his very clo
se to plans (and ready to cover) Pietenpol Air Camper. =C2-A very special
gentleman.
What a treat!
Even walked out the door with a neat Pietenpol clock! =C2-Oh relax, he ga
ve it to me!
Seriously, I am honored to have spent an evening with my new Pietenpol frie
nd and WW II veteran Chuck Campbell. =C2-
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 6
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Hey all,
Does anyone know the what's happened to Vi's last Ford powered plane now
that he's deceased. It was a beauty and I sure hope someone gets it who
will get it flying rather than stashed in a museum somewhere.
Douwe
Message 7
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| Subject: | Four-bladed prop |
VERY COOL DAN!!!!!!
DAVE
Ca.
no not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
danhelsper@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 4:18 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com; danhelsper@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Four-bladed prop
Hello Pieter's,
As you might remember about two years ago I carved this prop from
white ash, 44 pitch and 72" diameter. As it turned out it was too large
and the ole model A could only turn 1600 RPM and 220 lbs on the Official
Pietenpol List Fish Scale(s). I have now completed trimming each blade
by 1-1/2" and really thinning the blades also. It is now 69" diameter. I
hope to test it in the coming weeks.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
Message 8
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What are the advantages/disadvantages of making parts from stainless steel
vs carbon steel.
Weight? workability?
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Visit with Chuck Campbell |
Michael, you are welcome anytime. (Except after 9:00 PM[?]). Chuck
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
> Jim-- what a GREAT story and photos about you visiting with Chuck
> Campbell!!!!
>
> We are honored to have you among us Chuck and to be active, building and
> doing your thing still is just fantastic.
> On my wish list for this summer: to go visit Chuck Campbell!
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 7:07 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Visit with Chuck Campbell
>
> I had a very special experience last evening. I had the pleasure of
> meeting Chuck Campbell. Really enjoyed checking out his very close to
> plans (and ready to cover) Pietenpol Air Camper. A very special gentleman.
>
> What a treat!
>
> Even walked out the door with a neat Pietenpol clock! Oh relax, he gave
> it to me!
>
> Seriously, I am honored to have spent an evening with my new Pietenpol
> friend and WW II veteran Chuck Campbell.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New member and a few questions already |
Thanks again gang!
I mocked up a space on the floor last night to a 22" width. I think I can live
with it in general, but my specific concern is control manipulation for the throttle
and stick--not much elbow room for movement. Yet, I am more confident with
leaving this mod off of the list. Thanks for the sound advice.
Likewise, a wing tank augmented by a header tank will be plenty of fuel for my
purposes--sold. This allows me to build very close to the plans.
Where I will still deviate somewhat, is the forward cockpit. I will add no controls
or dash. Any seat will be a seat only in the academic sense. VERY narrow,
no padding, no safety harness, no windscreen, webbing installed for baggage,
and a hard cover over the opening to facilitate my intended aesthetic work. I
understand that this may impact resale value, but I am building this ship for
my use and resale is not a consideration in the design.
I think a split axle with springs is the way to go on gear, but I really like the
wooden gear (love to put an painted airfoil over the axle).
Because of where I will be operating, a steerable tailwheel is almost required.
Brakes ARE required. However, I love the idea of a rudder bar, not to mention
that this allows me to stick closer to the plans. The manual mentions a 'tailwheel
control stick'. I interpret this as a separate control in the cockpit to
manage ground handling. Does anyone herein have such a set-up? Penny for your
thoughts. I don't mind getting really creative and 'out of the box' here.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438616#438616
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Visit with Chuck Campbell |
I'll change that last post! ANY OF YOU is welcome anytime (even you,
Keith). Chuck
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
> Jim-- what a GREAT story and photos about you visiting with Chuck
> Campbell!!!!
>
> We are honored to have you among us Chuck and to be active, building and
> doing your thing still is just fantastic.
> On my wish list for this summer: to go visit Chuck Campbell!
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 7:07 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Visit with Chuck Campbell
>
> I had a very special experience last evening. I had the pleasure of
> meeting Chuck Campbell. Really enjoyed checking out his very close to
> plans (and ready to cover) Pietenpol Air Camper. A very special gentleman.
>
> What a treat!
>
> Even walked out the door with a neat Pietenpol clock! Oh relax, he gave
> it to me!
>
> Seriously, I am honored to have spent an evening with my new Pietenpol
> friend and WW II veteran Chuck Campbell.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
Dan, haven't heard from you for a while. Where you been? C
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Dave Abramson <davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
wrote:
> VERY COOL DAN!!!!!!
>
> DAVE
>
> Ca.
>
> no not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *
> danhelsper@aol.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 23, 2015 4:18 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com; danhelsper@aol.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Four-bladed prop
>
> Hello Pieter's,
>
> As you might remember about two years ago I carved this prop from white
> ash, 44 pitch and 72" diameter. As it turned out it was too large and the
> ole model A could only turn 1600 RPM and 220 lbs on the Official Pietenpol
> List Fish Scale(s). I have now completed trimming each blade by 1-1/2" and
> really thinning the blades also. It is now 69" diameter. I hope to test it
> in the coming weeks.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Loensloe Airfield
> Puryear, TN
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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Hi Steve,
Drilling holes in stainless is much harder. My firwall is stainless and eve
ry hole I had to drill turned the drill bit red at the tip during drilling.
Jim B.
=C2-
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New member and a few questions already |
Andy, I have no idea what a tailwheel control stick is. I never got the
builders manual when I bought my Pietenpol plans, but I got mine from Don
Pietenpol (BHP's son) rather than from Andrew.
Most airplanes with steel tube structures just tie the tailwheel indirectly
(using coil springs) to the rudder via a small control horn at the bottom of
the rudder. However with a lightweight wooden rudder such as the Pietenpol
has, that's not a good idea as it can put some pretty severe torsion loads
on the rudder. So many Pietenpol builders tie an extra set of cables to the
rudder bar to steer the tailwheel. These cables are either attached
directly to the rudder bar or are attached to the rudder cable somewhere aft
of the cockpit using nicopress fittings.
In general, you don't want as much deflection of the tailwheel as you do the
rudder since it is operating directly against pavement and a little
deflection goes a long way in steering. Tying the tailwheel steering cable
to the rudder cable can make tailwheel steering very sensitive. I solved
this problem by running the tailwheel steering cables all the way to the
rudder bar and attaching them about halfway out on the rudder bar, rather
than at the outboard ends where the rudder cables attach. I arrived at that
ratio by measuring the tailwheel steering horn of a J-3 Cub and comparing it
to the rudder cable attach horn. It seems to work very well, and the
tailwheel steering on my Pietenpol is powerful enough to control it well on
the ground without being overly sensitive.
Above is a photo showing my tailwheel steering installation (forward is
toward the top of the picture). You can see the tailwheel steering cables
coming off the rudder bar about halfway out on either side. The tailwheel
steering cables then are directed under the floorboard by the pulleys
visible in the photo to get them out of the way.
This is just one way to accomplish this task. One of the great joys of
building a Pietenpol is figuring out how to solve problems like this, and
then figuring out a way to implement your solution.
Good Luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Garrett
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 2:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New member and a few questions already
--> < <mailto:andy_garrett@live.com> andy_garrett@live.com>
Thanks again gang!
I mocked up a space on the floor last night to a 22" width. I think I can
live with it in general, but my specific concern is control manipulation for
the throttle and stick--not much elbow room for movement. Yet, I am more
confident with leaving this mod off of the list. Thanks for the sound
advice.
Likewise, a wing tank augmented by a header tank will be plenty of fuel for
my purposes--sold. This allows me to build very close to the plans.
Where I will still deviate somewhat, is the forward cockpit. I will add no
controls or dash. Any seat will be a seat only in the academic sense. VERY
narrow, no padding, no safety harness, no windscreen, webbing installed for
baggage, and a hard cover over the opening to facilitate my intended
aesthetic work. I understand that this may impact resale value, but I am
building this ship for my use and resale is not a consideration in the
design.
I think a split axle with springs is the way to go on gear, but I really
like the wooden gear (love to put an painted airfoil over the axle).
Because of where I will be operating, a steerable tailwheel is almost
required. Brakes ARE required. However, I love the idea of a rudder bar, not
to mention that this allows me to stick closer to the plans. The manual
mentions a 'tailwheel control stick'. I interpret this as a separate control
in the cockpit to manage ground handling. Does anyone herein have such a
set-up? Penny for your thoughts. I don't mind getting really creative and
'out of the box' here.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438616#438616>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438616#438616
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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Steve
Not all stainless steels are created equal. Just like not all carbon steels are
equal. The choice to use a particular metal comes down to multiple factors, strength,
workability, cost, availability. I would love to be using titanium for
my plane but that just isn't cost effective (makes 4130 look cheap). 4130 has
become popular because it posses a good combination of workability, cost, resistant
to rust, and strength.
Here is a good discussion.
http://machinedesign.com/materials/comparing-stainless-steel-and-other-metals
Chris
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438624#438624
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: New member and a few questions already |
That's a solid solution--thank you.
What are the bars under your rudder bar? Are those gas pistons attached to you
rudder system?
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438627#438627
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: New member and a few questions already |
Heel brakes and their master cylinders
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Garrett
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 4:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New member and a few questions already
--> <andy_garrett@live.com>
That's a solid solution--thank you.
What are the bars under your rudder bar? Are those gas pistons attached to
you rudder system?
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438627#438627
Message 18
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| Subject: | welding sticker shock |
I was looking to have two cracks in a thin piece of steel spot welded to
stop the cracking. Went into a big welding shop and was first quoted
"something over $100 per hour. at least one hour." I said no way and the
desk person said "I will ask the boss." Then he came back and said $85. I
thanked them (they were nice) and said I would keep them in mind.
I am going to contact a motorcycle repair shop that I think will be much
more reasonable.
Perhaps part of the problem is the corner of San Antonio I am on. It is
full of Oil field and semi truck repair shops.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: New member and a few questions already |
Andy, you said "Where I will still deviate somewhat, is the forward
cockpit. I will add no controls or dash. Any seat will be a seat only in
the academic sense. VERY narrow, no padding, no safety harness, no
windscreen, webbing installed for baggage, and a hard cover over the
opening to facilitate my intended aesthetic work. I understand that this
may impact resale value, but I am building this ship for my use and resale
is not a consideration in the design."
Just a thought, Build a lightweight "Box" or tray that will hold your
camping (It is an Air Camper) items up higher than the seat and make it go
all the way up to the front tank. Then put good bungees in it to hold your
stuff forward and put a good openable cover on it. Then you don't have to
bend way down in the plane to get stuff out.
Blue Skies,
Steve "the good idea fairy" D
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Andy Garrett <andy_garrett@live.com> wrote:
> andy_garrett@live.com>
>
> Thanks again gang!
>
> I mocked up a space on the floor last night to a 22" width. I think I can
> live with it in general, but my specific concern is control manipulation
> for the throttle and stick--not much elbow room for movement. Yet, I am
> more confident with leaving this mod off of the list. Thanks for the sound
> advice.
>
> Likewise, a wing tank augmented by a header tank will be plenty of fuel
> for my purposes--sold. This allows me to build very close to the plans.
>
> Where I will still deviate somewhat, is the forward cockpit. I will add
> no controls or dash. Any seat will be a seat only in the academic sense.
> VERY narrow, no padding, no safety harness, no windscreen, webbing
> installed for baggage, and a hard cover over the opening to facilitate my
> intended aesthetic work. I understand that this may impact resale value,
> but I am building this ship for my use and resale is not a consideration in
> the design.
>
> I think a split axle with springs is the way to go on gear, but I really
> like the wooden gear (love to put an painted airfoil over the axle).
>
> Because of where I will be operating, a steerable tailwheel is almost
> required. Brakes ARE required. However, I love the idea of a rudder bar,
> not to mention that this allows me to stick closer to the plans. The manual
> mentions a 'tailwheel control stick'. I interpret this as a separate
> control in the cockpit to manage ground handling. Does anyone herein have
> such a set-up? Penny for your thoughts. I don't mind getting really
> creative and 'out of the box' here.
>
> --------
> Andy Garrett
> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'
> Haysville, Kansas
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438616#438616
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
..."He's a four-blader Mary Beth!"
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438631#438631
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
Dan--
That prop is awesome!--can't wait to hear how it works on the A.
--Mac in Oregon
> Hello Pieter's,
>
>
> As you might remember about two years ago I carved this prop from white
> ash, 44 pitch and 72" diameter. As it turned out it was too large and the
> ole model A could only turn 1600 RPM and 220 lbs on the Official Pietenpol
> List Fish Scale(s). I have now completed trimming each blade by 1-1/2" and
> really thinning the blades also. It is now 69" diameter. I hope to test it
> in the coming weeks.
>
>
> Dan Helsper
> Loensloe Airfield
> Puryear, TN
>
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