Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: Four-bladed prop (womenfly2)
2. 09:51 AM - Re: Four-bladed prop (dwilson)
3. 11:44 AM - Re: Four-bladed prop (AircamperN11MS)
4. 11:55 AM - Re: Re: Four-bladed prop (Steven Dortch)
5. 12:31 PM - Andy-- storage space and fuel (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
6. 01:56 PM - Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel (Charles N. Campbell)
7. 02:32 PM - Fw: Andy-- storage space and fuel (woodflier)
8. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing gear (Charles Burkholder)
9. 03:40 PM - Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel (George Abernathy)
10. 03:58 PM - Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel (Scott Knowlton)
11. 03:58 PM - Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel (Scott Knowlton)
12. 04:19 PM - Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel (Andy Garrett)
13. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel (Jack Philips)
14. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel (Steven Dortch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
Solidity is simply the ratio of the total blade area of the propeller to the disk
swept out when the prop turns. The blade area is roughly the length (called
the radius) times the width (called the chord).
More solidity = less efficiency.
Generally speaking, the more blades, the less efficient the propeller...for cruise.
Of course, a whole lot depends on the blade cross section, width, length, rotational
speed, etc.
So think of it like this: The blades of a propeller interact with each other, in
a manner which decreases efficiency. If you think of the blades as wings, each
blade will be operating in the downwash and disturbed wake from the preceding
blades. More blades mean more interaction means less efficient.
Four blades are fine but thin out the blade chord width like a Cub prop.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438645#438645
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
I like it ! No, I really like it! Dan, you must be one of those experimental
home builders. I can't wait until you start working on the contra rotating prop
design. There is nothing like creating your own prop with a fine piece of
wood ! Got to go, furnace is running in the shop.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438661#438661
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
Dan,
What a beautiful looking prop. Have you weighed it. I would guess it weighs about
18 pounds. I like it. It should be fun and keep you on your toes when propping
it.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438666#438666
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| Subject: | Re: Four-bladed prop |
theoretically the best is a single blade like the everel blade
I would love to have/ make one of these.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:54 AM, womenfly2 <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Solidity is simply the ratio of the total blade area of the propeller to
> the disk swept out when the prop turns. The blade area is roughly the
> length (called the radius) times the width (called the chord).
>
> More solidity = less efficiency.
> Generally speaking, the more blades, the less efficient the
> propeller...for cruise.
> Of course, a whole lot depends on the blade cross section, width, length,
> rotational speed, etc.
>
> So think of it like this: The blades of a propeller interact with each
> other, in a manner which decreases efficiency. If you think of the blades
> as wings, each blade will be operating in the downwash and disturbed wake
> from the preceding blades. More blades mean more interaction means less
> efficient.
>
> Four blades are fine but thin out the blade chord width like a Cub prop.
>
> WF2
>
> --------
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438645#438645
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 5
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| Subject: | Andy-- storage space and fuel |
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel |
Mike, if it didn't help him it certainly helped me. I'm going to archive
that so that I will remember when I get ready to build a gas tank. Could
you give me the dimensions of your tank? Thanks, Chuck
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Andy,
>
>
> Welcome to the list. My two cents on your ideas of a wing tank and heade
r
> tank---no need for either. Simply fabricate a large nose tank
>
> for right behind your firewall and you will reap the following advantages
:
>
>
> 1) your wing center section can be used entirely for baggage.
> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy.htm
>
> 2) you=99ll never need a ladder to get up to fuel your center
section
> tank.
>
> 3) you=99ll never spill fuel from filling your wing tank into
your
> cockpit
>
> 4) you=99ll have about 2 hours, with generous reserves with a
large
> nose tank.
>
> 5) My nose tank is 17 gallons and I have flown 2 hour 30 minute legs
> which his ridiculous but it can be done.
>
> 6) you=99ll eliminate extra fuel lines, shutoff valves, fittin
gs, and
> weight.
>
> 7) you will be able to fill your tank standing on the ground,
> without a ladder if necessary or from fuel cans of your choice.
>
>
> As others have mentioned, you can still install a spartan front cockpit
> and have a very large baggage capacity if you are going cross country
> without
>
> a passenger. I installed a removable control stick in the front (slip
> fits into the stick socket if my passenger would like to fly) and had a
> local upholstery
>
> shop sew up a black canvas U-shaped sack that snaps all the way around th
e
> perimeter of my front cockpit to hold my camping gear and other essential
>
> things like pillow and teddy bear and snacks and such. Lots of room up
> there=94you=99d be amazed what you can carry between your ope
n center section
> and
>
> front cockpit sling. I also had the upholstery shop sew up two genuine
> fake leather Rich Corinthian (did I mention fake?) leather cockpit covers
> that keep all
>
> my stuff from flying out of the front cockpit and to cover up the cockpit
s
> while parked overnight at fly-in=99s. I hope this helps!
>
>
> Mike C.
>
> Ohio
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Andy-- storage space and fuel |
I'll vouch for Mike Cuy's comments on the fuselage tank. I went the same wa
y with a tank in the nose. I see Mark Chouinard is doing the same thing. I
ended up with 16 gallons, and I call the last 5 non-usable. This gives me 2
/12 hours of endurance which exceeds the endurance of my butt. I do notice
a small trim change as the fuel burns off but it's not noticeable holding
the stick. My airplane doesn't have a trim system and with a full tank, wil
l begin to go nose-down hands off. But at about a half tank, it's stable. A
t low fuel, there's a tail heavy moment.
It's close enough to being in trim that if I put my arms outside the cockpi
t and forward, the nose goes down, If you put them back, it goes up.
I like having the center section baggage compartment and found a small flat
soft bag that fits in there just fine. I keep chocks, cockpit covers, a fe
w tools and tie-downs up there.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles N. Campbell <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 24, 2015 5:00 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andy-- storage space and fuel
Mike, if it didn't help him it certainly helped me. I'm going to archive t
hat so that I will remember when I get ready to build a gas tank. Could yo
u give me the dimensions of your tank? Thanks, Chuck
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partner
s, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
Andy,
Welcome to the list. My two cents on your ideas of a wing tank and header
tank---no need for either. Simply fabricate a large nose tank
for right behind your firewall and you will reap the following advantages:
1) your wing center section can be used entirely for baggage. http:
//www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy.htm
2) you=99ll never need a ladder to get up to fuel your center se
ction tank.
3) you=99ll never spill fuel from filling your wing tank into yo
ur cockpit
4) you=99ll have about 2 hours, with generous reserves with a la
rge nose tank.
5) My nose tank is 17 gallons and I have flown 2 hour 30 minute legs w
hich his ridiculous but it can be done.
6) you=99ll eliminate extra fuel lines, shutoff valves, fittings
, and weight.
7) you will be able to fill your tank standing on the ground, without
a ladder if necessary or from fuel cans of your choice.
As others have mentioned, you can still install a spartan front cockpit and
have a very large baggage capacity if you are going cross country without
a passenger. I installed a removable control stick in the front (slip fi
ts into the stick socket if my passenger would like to fly) and had a loca
l upholstery
shop sew up a black canvas U-shaped sack that snaps all the way around the
perimeter of my front cockpit to hold my camping gear and other essential
things like pillow and teddy bear and snacks and such. Lots of room up th
ere=94you=99d be amazed what you can carry between your open ce
nter section and
front cockpit sling. I also had the upholstery shop sew up two genuine fa
ke leather Rich Corinthian (did I mention fake?) leather cockpit covers tha
t keep all
my stuff from flying out of the front cockpit and to cover up the cockpits
while parked overnight at fly-in=99s. I hope this helps!
Mike C.
Ohio
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: VNE at cruise- bungees versus springs landing |
gear
Thankyou for your input everyone. I am going with the steel spring
setup. I have watched people work on bungee's and have no desire to have
them.
On 2/20/2015 9:39 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
>
> Glen,
>
> Here is a link to a discussion about the replacement of bungees with die springs
written a while back by William Wynne-
>
> http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-die-spring-landing-gear-on-a-pietenpol-10-a-m-4-p-m/
>
> Below is a copy of the page of the catalog in which I have noted the die springs
I ordered. They were , if memory serves, around $85 or $90, cheaper than I
could find anywhere else. The contact info as at the bottom of the page.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438541#438541
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/diamondwirecatalog_dragged_177.pdf
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
--
Charles Burkholder
Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel |
I like your thinking. =0AG
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel |
I followed Mike's good advice and am glad I did. Front combings are 10.5 in
ches above the longerons with the tank holding 18.5 gals. Very simple and e
asy to engineer/install.
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario.
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 3:30 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, L
LC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
> Andy,
>
> Welcome to the list. My two cents on your ideas of a wing tank and header
tank---no need for either. Simply fabricate a large nose tank
> for right behind your firewall and you will reap the following advantages:
>
> 1) your wing center section can be used entirely for baggage. http:
//www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy.htm
> 2) you=99ll never need a ladder to get up to fuel your center s
ection tank.
> 3) you=99ll never spill fuel from filling your wing tank into y
our cockpit
> 4) you=99ll have about 2 hours, with generous reserves with a l
arge nose tank.
> 5) My nose tank is 17 gallons and I have flown 2 hour 30 minute legs w
hich his ridiculous but it can be done.
> 6) you=99ll eliminate extra fuel lines, shutoff valves, fitting
s, and weight.
> 7) you will be able to fill your tank standing on the ground, without
a ladder if necessary or from fuel cans of your choice.
>
>
> As others have mentioned, you can still install a spartan front cockpit an
d have a very large baggage capacity if you are going cross country without
> a passenger. I installed a removable control stick in the front (slip f
its into the stick socket if my passenger would like to fly) and had a loca
l upholstery
> shop sew up a black canvas U-shaped sack that snaps all the way around the
perimeter of my front cockpit to hold my camping gear and other essential
> things like pillow and teddy bear and snacks and such. Lots of room up t
here=94you=99d be amazed what you can carry between your open ce
nter section and
> front cockpit sling. I also had the upholstery shop sew up two genuine f
ake leather Rich Corinthian (did I mention fake?) leather cockpit covers tha
t keep all
> my stuff from flying out of the front cockpit and to cover up the cockpits
while parked overnight at fly-in=99s. I hope this helps!
>
> Mike C.
> Ohio
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel |
I followed Mike's good advice and am glad I did. Front combings are 10.5 in
ches above the longerons with the tank holding 18.5 gals. Very simple and e
asy to engineer/install.
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario.
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 3:30 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, L
LC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
> Andy,
>
> Welcome to the list. My two cents on your ideas of a wing tank and header
tank---no need for either. Simply fabricate a large nose tank
> for right behind your firewall and you will reap the following advantages:
>
> 1) your wing center section can be used entirely for baggage. http:
//www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy.htm
> 2) you=99ll never need a ladder to get up to fuel your center s
ection tank.
> 3) you=99ll never spill fuel from filling your wing tank into y
our cockpit
> 4) you=99ll have about 2 hours, with generous reserves with a l
arge nose tank.
> 5) My nose tank is 17 gallons and I have flown 2 hour 30 minute legs w
hich his ridiculous but it can be done.
> 6) you=99ll eliminate extra fuel lines, shutoff valves, fitting
s, and weight.
> 7) you will be able to fill your tank standing on the ground, without
a ladder if necessary or from fuel cans of your choice.
>
>
> As others have mentioned, you can still install a spartan front cockpit an
d have a very large baggage capacity if you are going cross country without
> a passenger. I installed a removable control stick in the front (slip f
its into the stick socket if my passenger would like to fly) and had a loca
l upholstery
> shop sew up a black canvas U-shaped sack that snaps all the way around the
perimeter of my front cockpit to hold my camping gear and other essential
> things like pillow and teddy bear and snacks and such. Lots of room up t
here=94you=99d be amazed what you can carry between your open ce
nter section and
> front cockpit sling. I also had the upholstery shop sew up two genuine f
ake leather Rich Corinthian (did I mention fake?) leather cockpit covers tha
t keep all
> my stuff from flying out of the front cockpit and to cover up the cockpits
while parked overnight at fly-in=99s. I hope this helps!
>
> Mike C.
> Ohio
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel |
Well, that's just pretty obvious, isn't it?
I'm left wondering why anyone would do it the other way.
This doesn't require a pump does it? Still gravity feed--yes?
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438682#438682
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel |
Let me give the response from the Loyal Opposition:
A nose tank is a good solution, but does have its drawbacks:
1. Pressure head. With a gravity fuel system (no fuel pumps) the
recommended head above the carburetor at minimum fuel is 17". One of the
worst things that can happen is to be at very low fuel and be on short final
when some idiot in a Cessna pulls out onto the runway to takeoff (having
just announced his intentions on the radio, assuming everyone has a radio
and uses it). You shove the throttle forward, haul back on the stick and
the engine sputters and quits because there is not enough pressure head to
flow sufficient fuel to the carburetor. That's why one of the critical
tests you need to make before your first flight is a fuel flow test with the
tailwheel set in a hole several inches below ground level, simulating the
maximum angle of climb you might ever need.
2. Loss of easy to access baggage space. With my fuel tank in the
centersection, I have a very nice baggage compartment big enough to hold a
tent, a sleeping bag, an airmattress and a small duffle bag, in addition to
the chocks and tie downs I always carry. And I can access that baggage
compartment without a ladder. I don't see how you can carry much of a tent
in the centersection, since it's only about 5" tall at the most. I've seen
the tent Mike Cuy uses. My dog wouldn't fit in it. And it's a very small
dog.
3. With the tank in the centersection CG changes with fuel burn are minimal
and are not noticeable.
4. With the tank in the nose it is difficult to provide a sump drain that
can be easily reached to check for water in the gas. With a centersection
tank the sump drains (you need one at the lowest point of the tank, and if
the tank is flat, you'll need one on each side at the rear of the tank) are
easy to check when pre-flighting the airplane. Of course, you'll also need
a drain at the gascolator, which should be at the lowest point of the fuel
system. Building a nose tank that won't trap water in a low point is
difficult, and relying on the gascolator to show you all trapped water is
dangerous
5. We can start a discussion about whether it is good to have a lap full of
fuel in the event of a crash, but I'm not sure which is worse - a lap full
of fuel or a face full of fuel. I think the dynamics of each and every
crash are different and it is not possible to find a place for a fuel tank
that is totally crashworthy.
6. When refueling with a nose tank you can get careless, knowing that your
butt will stay dry even if you run the tank over. You'll only do that once
with a centersection tank. Then you'll learn to refuel much more carefully
(ask me how I know).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Garrett
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 7:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel
--> <andy_garrett@live.com>
Well, that's just pretty obvious, isn't it?
I'm left wondering why anyone would do it the other way.
This doesn't require a pump does it? Still gravity feed--yes?
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438682#438682
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| Subject: | Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel |
Gotta Love Experimental. Three good solutions. 1. Dual tanks, 2. Big
nose tank, 3. Big wing tank. All three rationally considered and planned.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Jack Philips <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
wrote:
> jack@bedfordlandings.com>
>
> Let me give the response from the Loyal Opposition:
>
> A nose tank is a good solution, but does have its drawbacks:
>
> 1. Pressure head. With a gravity fuel system (no fuel pumps) the
> recommended head above the carburetor at minimum fuel is 17". One of the
> worst things that can happen is to be at very low fuel and be on short
> final
> when some idiot in a Cessna pulls out onto the runway to takeoff (having
> just announced his intentions on the radio, assuming everyone has a radio
> and uses it). You shove the throttle forward, haul back on the stick and
> the engine sputters and quits because there is not enough pressure head to
> flow sufficient fuel to the carburetor. That's why one of the critical
> tests you need to make before your first flight is a fuel flow test with
> the
> tailwheel set in a hole several inches below ground level, simulating the
> maximum angle of climb you might ever need.
>
> 2. Loss of easy to access baggage space. With my fuel tank in the
> centersection, I have a very nice baggage compartment big enough to hold a
> tent, a sleeping bag, an airmattress and a small duffle bag, in addition to
> the chocks and tie downs I always carry. And I can access that baggage
> compartment without a ladder. I don't see how you can carry much of a tent
> in the centersection, since it's only about 5" tall at the most. I've seen
> the tent Mike Cuy uses. My dog wouldn't fit in it. And it's a very small
> dog.
>
> 3. With the tank in the centersection CG changes with fuel burn are
> minimal
> and are not noticeable.
>
> 4. With the tank in the nose it is difficult to provide a sump drain that
> can be easily reached to check for water in the gas. With a centersection
> tank the sump drains (you need one at the lowest point of the tank, and if
> the tank is flat, you'll need one on each side at the rear of the tank) are
> easy to check when pre-flighting the airplane. Of course, you'll also need
> a drain at the gascolator, which should be at the lowest point of the fuel
> system. Building a nose tank that won't trap water in a low point is
> difficult, and relying on the gascolator to show you all trapped water is
> dangerous
>
> 5. We can start a discussion about whether it is good to have a lap full
> of
> fuel in the event of a crash, but I'm not sure which is worse - a lap full
> of fuel or a face full of fuel. I think the dynamics of each and every
> crash are different and it is not possible to find a place for a fuel tank
> that is totally crashworthy.
>
> 6. When refueling with a nose tank you can get careless, knowing that your
> butt will stay dry even if you run the tank over. You'll only do that once
> with a centersection tank. Then you'll learn to refuel much more carefully
> (ask me how I know).
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy
> Garrett
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 7:19 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Andy-- storage space and fuel
>
> --> <andy_garrett@live.com>
>
> Well, that's just pretty obvious, isn't it?
>
> I'm left wondering why anyone would do it the other way.
>
> This doesn't require a pump does it? Still gravity feed--yes?
>
> --------
> Andy Garrett
> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'
> Haysville, Kansas
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438682#438682
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
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