---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/03/15: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:53 AM - What color is this Pietenpol? (Bill Church) 2. 01:52 PM - Re: What color is this Pietenpol? (Barry Davis) 3. 01:56 PM - Re: What color is this Pietenpol? (John Letkeman) 4. 02:22 PM - Re: What color is this Pietenpol? (Jeff Boatright) 5. 03:19 PM - Re: Recent visits. (Andy Garrett) 6. 03:31 PM - A couple of questions about wing construction (Andy Garrett) 7. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Recent visits. (Gary Boothe) 8. 04:07 PM - Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (Gary Boothe) 9. 04:59 PM - Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (Andy Garrett) 10. 05:17 PM - Re: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (Ken Bickers) 11. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (CatDesigns) 12. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (Gary Boothe) 13. 06:42 PM - Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (jarheadpilot82) 14. 07:21 PM - Re: Recent visits. (dfwplt) 15. 09:09 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBSZTogQSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgcXVlc3Rpb25zIGFi?= =?utf-8?B?b3V0IHdpbmcgY29uc3RydWN0aW9u? (=?utf-8?B?c3RldmVuLmQuZG9ydGNoQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=) 16. 09:23 PM - Re: Recent visits. (taildrags) 17. 09:24 PM - Re: Recent visits. (taildrags) 18. 09:38 PM - Re: What color is this Pietenpol? (taildrags) 19. 09:42 PM - Re: What color is this Pietenpol? (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:22 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: What color is this Pietenpol? From: "Bill Church" Blue/Gold? White/Black? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438948#438948 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/600_piet_830.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:25 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: What color is this Pietenpol? White & Brown? Barry -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 12:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What color is this Pietenpol? --> Blue/Gold? White/Black? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438948#438948 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/600_piet_830.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:26 PM PST US From: John Letkeman Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What color is this Pietenpol? Definitely Blue/Gold Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 3, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > > Blue/Gold? > White/Black? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438948#438948 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/600_piet_830.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What color is this Pietenpol? From: "Jeff Boatright" I think it's black and white and read all over... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438984#438984 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Recent visits. From: "Andy Garrett" Great pics! I like that he did the wire wrap/solder thing to his wires--very old school. Yet, at first glace his elevator control horn looks like a flat piece of material, aluminum maybe? I've actually been wondering about that as I study for my build. What options have people used for control horns. I'm looking at ways to reduce the amount of welding to be done. -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438985#438985 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: A couple of questions about wing construction From: "Andy Garrett" So, I have read that their is a discrepancy between the full size wing rib layout provided by Andrew Pietenpol and the actual stated dimensions in the plans. My own measurements confirm this. Go with the plans? Go with the stencil? Works either way? I also have a question about the three piece wing. The mounting method to the center section looks as simple as one bolt per spar--at the bottom in the notch. This allows the wing to lower when the strut is disconnected. The method for covering the gap is not discussed (or I haven't seen it yet). Photos reveal that most use sheets of aluminum and a lot of screws. Is this correct? Other options? I also wonder if this is the area where we are to add the 1" dihedral mentioned in the manual to avoid the appearance of a drooping wing. I interpret this as meaning that the wing tips are 1" higher than the center section, and that I achieve this with a subtle angle cut on the spars. Is my thinking sound? -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438986#438986 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:50 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Recent visits. Andy, Did you know there is a "Search Engine" on the matronics site? I entered, "control horns", and got 325 entries! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Garrett Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 3:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Recent visits. --> Great pics! I like that he did the wire wrap/solder thing to his wires--very old school. Yet, at first glace his elevator control horn looks like a flat piece of material, aluminum maybe? I've actually been wondering about that as I study for my build. What options have people used for control horns. I'm looking at ways to reduce the amount of welding to be done. -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438985#438985 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:57 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A couple of questions about wing construction Ditto for this subject. Note that there are 421 responses to the query, "Dihedral." Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Garrett Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A couple of questions about wing construction --> So, I have read that their is a discrepancy between the full size wing rib layout provided by Andrew Pietenpol and the actual stated dimensions in the plans. My own measurements confirm this. Go with the plans? Go with the stencil? Works either way? I also have a question about the three piece wing. The mounting method to the center section looks as simple as one bolt per spar--at the bottom in the notch. This allows the wing to lower when the strut is disconnected. The method for covering the gap is not discussed (or I haven't seen it yet). Photos reveal that most use sheets of aluminum and a lot of screws. Is this correct? Other options? I also wonder if this is the area where we are to add the 1" dihedral mentioned in the manual to avoid the appearance of a drooping wing. I interpret this as meaning that the wing tips are 1" higher than the center section, and that I achieve this with a subtle angle cut on the spars. Is my thinking sound? -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438986#438986 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:43 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction From: "Andy Garrett" Yes. Thank you for the subtle 'Use the search feature before posting rookie questions' tip. I'll try not to wear out my welcome. [Wink] -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438989#438989 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction From: Ken Bickers Andy, the one question that you posed that has received less attention through the years is how to cover the gap between the center section and the wing panels when building to the three piece wing supplement. Most people have done what you've suggested as a possible answer -- i.e., used a strip of aluminum that is held in place with screws. That works. I opted to use four inch fabric tape and covered the gap with fabric, which I then primed and painted using a brush. The trade-off is that if I ever have to remove the wings, I'll have to start by using a box cutter to slice the fabric covering the gap. On the other hand, my wing looks like it was built to the original one piece plans. And I'm pretty sure that eliminating all those screws will increase my top speed so much that I'll be able to out run whole herds of stampeding dairy cows. Welcome to the list, Ken On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Andy Garrett wrote: > andy_garrett@live.com> > > Yes. Thank you for the subtle 'Use the search feature before posting > rookie questions' tip. > > I'll try not to wear out my welcome. [Wink] > > -------- > Andy Garrett > 'General Purpose Creative Dude' > Haysville, Kansas > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438989#438989 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:12 PM PST US From: "CatDesigns" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction Andy I don't believe Gary was saying not to ask questions. I'm sure he was saying that if you only ask questions to the list you will get a few answers from the people currently on the list. All beneficial but by searching the archives you get the benefit of years of discussions by way more people than you would get by just simply asking. I've read through all the archives and there are a ton of good things in there that new builders should know. Problem is I forget most of them so I have to go searching for them all the time. Chris Sacramento, CA WestcoastPiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Garrett Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2015 4:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction --> Yes. Thank you for the subtle 'Use the search feature before posting rookie questions' tip. I'll try not to wear out my welcome. [Wink] -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438989#438989 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:04 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction ...and don't forget to check out Chris' website, www.westcoastpiet.com, where you will see interesting things like this (speaking of alternative methods of attaching those wing fairings, see attached). Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CatDesigns Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 5:50 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction Andy I don't believe Gary was saying not to ask questions. I'm sure he was saying that if you only ask questions to the list you will get a few answers from the people currently on the list. All beneficial but by searching the archives you get the benefit of years of discussions by way more people than you would get by just simply asking. I've read through all the archives and there are a ton of good things in there that new builders should know. Problem is I forget most of them so I have to go searching for them all the time. Chris Sacramento, CA WestcoastPiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Garrett Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2015 4:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction --> Yes. Thank you for the subtle 'Use the search feature before posting rookie questions' tip. I'll try not to wear out my welcome. [Wink] -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438989#438989 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction From: "jarheadpilot82" FWIW, I took the initial response the same way Andy did. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439002#439002 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Recent visits. From: "dfwplt" Don's control horns are actually not one solid piece of material. It's hard to tell from the pics but they are made from two pieces of thin 4130 welded together. Pietenpol control horns built per plans are light, extremely strong and simple to build. And the welding part of the horns is really minimal. Jim in Pryor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439007#439007 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:28 PM PST US From: "=?utf-8?B?c3RldmVuLmQuZG9ydGNoQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=" Subject: Pietenpol-List: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBSZTogQSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgcXVlc3Rpb25zIGFi?= =?utf-8?B?b3V0IHdpbmcgY29uc3RydWN0aW9u? 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From: "taildrags" A close look at that first picture points out that he's thought about providing some offset in the vertical stabilizer leading edge in case some rudder trim is needed. He's placed an indexing pin (a nail) right ahead of the leading edge, maybe what he used to run a string down the longitudinal axis to align everything with or maybe what he's using to square the wings by measuring from there out to each wingtip, but the yaw adjustment comes in the form of extra washers or spacers under the bolt heads that attach the forward VS attach brackets. Adding or removing spacers will permit deflecting the leading edge, thus adding yaw trim without holding rudder pedal pressure or using a rudder trim tab. On my airplane, a combination of vertical stabilizer offset and engine thrust line offset *almost* got me there, but 41CC still has a fixed bent-metal rudder trim tab on it for flying straight in cruise without having to ride a rudder pedal. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439017#439017 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Recent visits. From: "taildrags" Oh, and- note to Chris Tracy: snag these photos and the ones of Aviken's "Jeep Camper" for upload to Westcoastpiet. Good stuff in all these photos! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439018#439018 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:14 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What color is this Pietenpol? From: "taildrags" See, you guys all just want to make fun of this airplane as if it were some kind of a dress. All I see is an Air Camper, and one with a lot of similarities to 41CC when I had the A65 on it. The Aeronca heat muff is what I still have, but with the 65 I also had a small forward-facing air scoop like this one on the inlet to the heat muff in order to get a more forceful flow of air through the heat box. I had those standard Aeronca stacks, which rusted out in just a few short years and that I replaced with welded stainless steel ones. I had the tall cooling air scoop "eyebrows" like these till I went to a set of lower-profile J-3 style scoops. Scout still has cabane brace struts very similar to these, with Aurora ball end fittings at the top, which proved to be a weak link and a failure point when the airplane went over on its back. One broke and one bent, right where those fittings thread into the streamline tubing. My airplane has a slightly higher turtledeck than this one, where this one seems to dip to a lower profile just aft of the pilot's seat back. This airplane has one thing that I was determined to avoid on mine: the brake cables have quite a bit of extra length in them, which (to my mind) makes them susceptible to getting snagged when landing in fields and tall grass, which I do from time to time. Although I don't have cable-actuated brakes, I made it a point of routing my brake line tubing tight to the gear legs, on the aft side of them, in order to protect them from passing brush and grass. I am not being critical here... just trying to be observant and learn from other airplanes. Some people see a dress: I see an airplane ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439020#439020 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What color is this Pietenpol? From: "taildrags" Oh, yeah... and notice that the blue and grey airplane has a simple float rod fuel level indicator in the nose tank, just like Scout ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439021#439021 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.