Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:01 AM - Re: Re: Recent visits. (Charles N. Campbell)
2. 04:42 AM - Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (womenfly2)
3. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: Recent visits. (Greg Cardinal)
4. 05:05 AM - Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (Greg Cardinal)
5. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: Recent visits. (Jack Philips)
6. 06:00 AM - Re: What color is this Pietenpol? (Larry Vetter)
7. 06:48 AM - a few words about dihedral (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
8. 07:27 AM - Re: a few words about dihedral (Bill Church)
9. 08:08 AM - Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (womenfly2)
10. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (Steven Dortch)
11. 10:09 AM - Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (Andy Garrett)
12. 10:11 AM - Re: A couple of questions about wing construction (Andy Garrett)
13. 01:45 PM - what color is this plane, control horns, etc (Douwe Blumberg)
14. 01:49 PM - fun fly-in, piets invited (Douwe Blumberg)
15. 03:01 PM - Re: what color is this plane, control horns, etc (Bill Church)
16. 08:19 PM - Re: a few words about dihedral (Greg Bacon)
17. 08:31 PM - Re: a few words about dihedral (Marcus Zechini)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Recent visits. |
I made all my control horns out of .09 thick 4130 steel sheet. They might
be a bit heavier than the two-piece, welded model, but they were a lot less
trouble to build. 2 cents worth. Chuck
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Andy Garrett <andy_garrett@live.com> wrote:
> andy_garrett@live.com>
>
> Great pics! I like that he did the wire wrap/solder thing to his
> wires--very old school. Yet, at first glace his elevator control horn looks
> like a flat piece of material, aluminum maybe?
>
> I've actually been wondering about that as I study for my build. What
> options have people used for control horns. I'm looking at ways to reduce
> the amount of welding to be done.
>
> --------
> Andy Garrett
> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'
> Haysville, Kansas
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438985#438985
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions about wing construction |
You can look here too: Pietenpol Plan Packages (https://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/)
Remember adding dihedral will reduce lift. You will have some dihedral as the
wing starts to fly. If you just want it for appearance then add in just enough
to give you that visual appearance, no more.
Good luck with your build,
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439028#439028
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Recent visits. |
Andy,
Control horns built to the plans will be lighter and stronger than control
horns cut from flat sheet. Do not fear the welding.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett@live.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 5:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Recent visits.
> <andy_garrett@live.com>
>
> Great pics! I like that he did the wire wrap/solder thing to his
> wires--very old school. Yet, at first glace his elevator control horn
> looks like a flat piece of material, aluminum maybe?
>
> I've actually been wondering about that as I study for my build. What
> options have people used for control horns. I'm looking at ways to reduce
> the amount of welding to be done.
>
> --------
> Andy Garrett
> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'
> Haysville, Kansas
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438985#438985
>
>
>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions about wing construction |
Ribs built to the drawing supplied with the plans will fly just fine.
Keri-Ann Price used to sell plans for a gapless 3-piece wing. This was used
on NX18235 and is a good option.
As others have stated, www.westcoastpiet.com and the archives have a wealth
of info. Enjoy the build.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett@live.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 5:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A couple of questions about wing construction
> <andy_garrett@live.com>
>
> So, I have read that their is a discrepancy between the full size wing rib
> layout provided by Andrew Pietenpol and the actual stated dimensions in
> the plans. My own measurements confirm this.
>
> Go with the plans? Go with the stencil? Works either way?
>
> I also have a question about the three piece wing. The mounting method to
> the center section looks as simple as one bolt per spar--at the bottom in
> the notch. This allows the wing to lower when the strut is disconnected.
>
> The method for covering the gap is not discussed (or I haven't seen it
> yet). Photos reveal that most use sheets of aluminum and a lot of screws.
> Is this correct? Other options?
>
> I also wonder if this is the area where we are to add the 1" dihedral
> mentioned in the manual to avoid the appearance of a drooping wing. I
> interpret this as meaning that the wing tips are 1" higher than the center
> section, and that I achieve this with a subtle angle cut on the spars. Is
> my thinking sound?
>
> --------
> Andy Garrett
> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'
> Haysville, Kansas
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438986#438986
>
>
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Recent visits. |
Actually, the edge welding done on the control horns is very easy and is fun
to do. And the built-up horns look mire "Pietenpol-ish"
Just my opinion.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Cardinal
Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2015 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Recent visits.
--> <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Andy,
Control horns built to the plans will be lighter and stronger than control
horns cut from flat sheet. Do not fear the welding.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett@live.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 5:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Recent visits.
> <andy_garrett@live.com>
>
> Great pics! I like that he did the wire wrap/solder thing to his
> wires--very old school. Yet, at first glace his elevator control horn
> looks like a flat piece of material, aluminum maybe?
>
> I've actually been wondering about that as I study for my build. What
> options have people used for control horns. I'm looking at ways to reduce
> the amount of welding to be done.
>
> --------
> Andy Garrett
> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'
> Haysville, Kansas
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438985#438985
>
>
>
---
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: What color is this Pietenpol? |
as I said on FB...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439033#439033
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/497000120_t2qkm_o_352.jpg
Message 7
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| Subject: | a few words about dihedral |
Just a few observations about adding dihedral to the 3-piece Pietenpol wing
.
Women Fly 2 points out that dihedral can reduce lift which is true but for
the minuscule amount of dihedral that
we put in our Pietenpols the effect is negligible.
Wing cuts outs in the center section is another place where builders fuss o
ver the "loss of lift" when if you just build
a light plane it will climb great. Add 2 feet of wing if you're worried a
bout lift loss.
If you want to reduce lift build a Pietenpol that is wayyyyy overweight or
adding electrical systems and lots of radios and
front cockpit instruments but losing a little lift for the sake of dihedral
is well worth the trade off---and here are my reasons:
1) dihedral increases stability.
2) easier to fold and read maps while going cross country if you have
to take your hands off the stick momentarily
3) birds have dihedral.
4) Cubs and Champs have dihedral and fly pretty nicely.
5) Piets with flat wings sometimes appear to have drooping wings so ju
st a touch of dihedral eliminates that appearance.
6) Dihedral irritates the purists which is a fond hobby of mine!
Mike C.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: a few words about dihedral |
very few words.
:)
> Just a few observations about adding dihedral to the 3-piece Pietenpol wing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439036#439036
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions about wing construction |
Greg Cardinal wrote:
> Ribs built to the drawing supplied with the plans will fly just fine.
>
> Keri-Ann Price used to sell plans for a gapless 3-piece wing. This was used
> on NX18235 and is a good option.
>
> As others have stated, www.westcoastpiet.com and the archives have a wealth
> of info. Enjoy the build.
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
> ---
..... still do.
WF2
( Keri-Ann)
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439039#439039
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions about wing construction |
*Average dihedral for an Aeronca Champ is 1 degree. On a piper cub it is 1
inch at the tips, max. On a Cessna 150 it is 2 degrees. Some some parasols
have 0 degrees.*
*Blue Skies,*
*Steve D*
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:08 AM, womenfly2 <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Greg Cardinal wrote:
> > Ribs built to the drawing supplied with the plans will fly just fine.
> >
> > Keri-Ann Price used to sell plans for a gapless 3-piece wing. This was
> used
> > on NX18235 and is a good option.
> >
> > As others have stated, www.westcoastpiet.com and the archives have a
> wealth
> > of info. Enjoy the build.
> >
> > Greg Cardinal
> > Minneapolis
> >
> > ---
>
>
> ..... still do.
>
> WF2
> ( Keri-Ann)
>
> --------
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439039#439039
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions about wing construction |
Thank you for your responses. Very helpful. I will make my horns as indicated in
the plans.
As for my response to the suggestion that I should use the search feature before
posting questions--I hope I did not come across as 'snarky'. That was not my
intent.
I have been a member of several forums over the years and understand the etiquette.
I know it can be frustrating for the old hands to be patient with the new
guys who seem to always ask the same questions. I will be cognizant of this in
the future.
However, this would be a boring place if it were only treated as a repository of
static information to be researched like a common reference library. A forum
is first and foremost a community, where ideas are fluid and dynamic. Asking
even an old question can inspire a new and creative response. So, I will be diligent
in my search engine use before asking questions, but I may ask it anyway
simply to mine the current view of whatever it is. I will try not to be tiresome.
Cheers!
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439044#439044
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions about wing construction |
Also, I discovered westcoastpiet even before I found this site. Very good stuff
over there.
I've also been pouring over every Youtube video I can find to compare and contrast
methods and configurations. Great stuff.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439045#439045
Message 13
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| Subject: | what color is this plane, control horns, etc |
I think this is Rob Bach's plane which is blue and gold. He flew it to
Brodhead a few times, and it's really a nice plane. Cool instrument panels,
lots of brass if I remember correctly. Interesting dude, told me when he
gets bored flying he does mathematical algorithms in his head to pass the
time.
My control horns are just flat stock and works fine, but I'd do the plans
version if I did it again. Easey peasey to build, strong and super light.
My plane has NO dihedral and the wings don't really look droopy to me.
Adding 1" is very common and is easily done.
Andy, you are very welcome on this list and PLEASE ask questions, that's
what it's all about. I personally found it helpful though to search the
archives first because otherwise, I would have submitted 1,000 questions
during my build. As it was, I only submitted about 500!!
Douwe
Message 14
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| Subject: | fun fly-in, piets invited |
I went to this last year and though the WX was crap, it was fun. Lots of
grass to land on, the field is closed during the fly-in. people were really
nice. Larry Williams was there, Andy with the old Rudolf Piet and another,
plus me. with good WX it should be fun for those nearby.(Ohio crowd.) I've
been asked to invite Piets, hence this email.
Barnstorming Carnival July 11-12 Springfield-Beckley Ohio.
Douwe
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: what color is this plane, control horns, etc |
Actually, Douwe, the plane in the photo was built by RT Searfoss. Very nice looking
Pietenpol.
And clearly, from this photo, it is white and black.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439056#439056
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nx499rt_131.jpg
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: a few words about dihedral |
Mike,
Nice rundown on the dihedral topic! You are right about the added
stability. Good that you made it #1, because stability is paramount. I
would also add "a bit of dihedral gives a piet a spunky and eager look".
So, let's not forget the spunk factor :-)
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Just a few observations about adding dihedral to the 3-piece Pietenpol
> wing.
>
>
> Women Fly 2 points out that dihedral can reduce lift which is true but fo
r
> the minuscule amount of dihedral that
>
> we put in our Pietenpols the effect is negligible.
>
>
> Wing cuts outs in the center section is another place where builders fuss
> over the =9Closs of lift=9D when if you just build
>
> a light plane it will climb great. Add 2 feet of wing if you=99re
worried
> about lift loss.
>
>
> If you want to reduce lift build a Pietenpol that is wayyyyy overweight o
r
> adding electrical systems and lots of radios and
>
> front cockpit instruments but losing a little lift for the sake of
> dihedral is well worth the trade off---and here are my reasons:
>
>
> 1) dihedral increases stability.
>
> 2) easier to fold and read maps while going cross country if you
> have to take your hands off the stick momentarily
>
> 3) birds have dihedral.
>
> 4) Cubs and Champs have dihedral and fly pretty nicely.
>
> 5) Piets with flat wings sometimes appear to have drooping wings so
> just a touch of dihedral eliminates that appearance.
>
> 6) Dihedral irritates the purists which is a fond hobby of mine!
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
===========
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: a few words about dihedral |
Dihedral is for Piper Cherokees. Get a wing - leveler and or auto-pilot,
too....
Was that mean? Just kidding. I like my Piet GN-1 'cause it's fun.
On Mar 4, 2015 9:53 AM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Just a few observations about adding dihedral to the 3-piece Pietenpol
> wing.
>
>
> Women Fly 2 points out that dihedral can reduce lift which is true but fo
r
> the minuscule amount of dihedral that
>
> we put in our Pietenpols the effect is negligible.
>
>
> Wing cuts outs in the center section is another place where builders fuss
> over the =9Closs of lift=9D when if you just build
>
> a light plane it will climb great. Add 2 feet of wing if you=99re
worried
> about lift loss.
>
>
> If you want to reduce lift build a Pietenpol that is wayyyyy overweight o
r
> adding electrical systems and lots of radios and
>
> front cockpit instruments but losing a little lift for the sake of
> dihedral is well worth the trade off---and here are my reasons:
>
>
> 1) dihedral increases stability.
>
> 2) easier to fold and read maps while going cross country if you
> have to take your hands off the stick momentarily
>
> 3) birds have dihedral.
>
> 4) Cubs and Champs have dihedral and fly pretty nicely.
>
> 5) Piets with flat wings sometimes appear to have drooping wings so
> just a touch of dihedral eliminates that appearance.
>
> 6) Dihedral irritates the purists which is a fond hobby of mine!
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
===========
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
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