---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/13/15: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:07 AM - Arch support question (nightmare) 2. 05:20 AM - Re: Basic Torch Safety (danhelsper@aol.com) 3. 06:02 AM - Re: Arch support question (Jack Philips) 4. 06:26 AM - FBG, Part Deux (jarheadpilot82) 5. 06:33 AM - Re: Arch support question (jarheadpilot82) 6. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Arch support question (Scott Knowlton) 7. 09:42 AM - BPA (Andy Garrett) 8. 11:30 AM - Re: Arch support question (nightmare) 9. 12:55 PM - Re: BPA (Steven Dortch) 10. 01:44 PM - Re: Arch support question (jarheadpilot82) 11. 01:48 PM - Re: BPA (Andy Garrett) 12. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: BPA (Steven Dortch) 13. 02:46 PM - Re: BPA (Andy Garrett) 14. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: BPA (Steven Dortch) 15. 03:28 PM - Re: BPA (Bill Church) 16. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: BPA (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 17. 08:09 PM - Re: BPA (Andy Garrett) 18. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: BPA (Greg Bacon) 19. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: BPA (Steven Dortch) 20. 10:04 PM - Re: BPA (William Wynne) 21. 10:40 PM - Re: aluminum welding troubles (William Wynne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Arch support question From: "nightmare" was wondering what the most common method is of constructing the top of fuselage arch support is. Was thinking of laminating several 1/8 Okume ply strips together in a jig. I have some extra Okume. If going this route, should I account for some spring back? Or is just simply cutting the arch out of the face of a 3/4 inch ply also a good way? Couldn't find anything good in the search. But I also like getting the most up to date way of thinking on it. I've finally got most of cockpits done , brake pedals, throttle linkage, part of door opening, seats etc. fairing strips on side fuselage, tail feathers, and tailwheel. Starting to look like a plane now, can't wait to see how it looks when I finish the top of fuselage! Thanks, Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439312#439312 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:31 AM PST US From: danhelsper@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Torch Safety Here's another thing to avoid. I was at A & P school 1973. It was the final welding test for the practical exam. I was so preoccupied with getting on to the welding assignment I neglected to tighten the hoses to the torch body with the wrench. About half way through I had my face down close to the welding, and all of a sudden there was a horrific BANG! right in my face. Thankfully only some hair singed. I dodged a bullet that day. Only good thing was my hand was shaking just right after that so as to make perfect dimes! Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Tue, Mar 10, 2015 8:08 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Basic Torch Safety Thanks, Tom. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tkreiner Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 5:49 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Torch Safety --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tkreiner" Recently, I observed, and intervened in a situation that could have become dangerous - even deadly. A number of us were working on equipment when one of the guys was about to begin brazing a cast iron piece, and upon lighting his torch, we heard a series of Pops. The sound was staccato - almost like low intensity machine gun fire, prompting me to immediately shut off both the Ox and acetylene. The Popping ceased moments later... What was occurring was due to several factors, including: a runaway acetylene regulator, faulty check valves, and, last but not least, bad O-Rings inside the torch handle. The issue with the regulator was solved by Welding Supply to the tune of $140 for a new regulator. Since they were out of the check valves, we removed them from the torch handle, and continued on. While troubleshooting, we noted that the torch tip wasn't flowing gas -- so with tank valves turned off - I wrapped my hand around it and attempted to remove it from the handle. As many of you know - or should know - Victor 100 torches, including all their clones like the Uniweld, and Harbor Freight torches - use two O-Rings to seal the gases from one another and, since they are compliant seals, the tip is to be HAND TIGHTENED ONLY. The torch in question not only had a wrench tightened tip, the O-Rings were cut, allowing the gases to mix INSIDE THE HANDLE... Exactly why the O-Rings were added to the design in the first place; to eliminate mixing within the handle! In the pic you'll see the handle end of the torch tip - where it enters the torch handle, along with the two O-Rings. The O-Rings themselves are metric, and they are available from Amazon at this link: http://www.amazon.com/Uniweld-TXRK-Tip-O-Ring-Repair/dp/B00FI1JM9G I've also located the same O-Rings in Viton, which should cost a whopping 3 cents more each, assuming we can buy then in the right volume. I'm attempting to get a quotation on 300 pieces of each to keep on hand in my shop and supply to anyone needing some for their torch collection. Now - please make sure your torch is ready to go, and if you have any issues that don't seem right, STOP. Figure out what the issue is, or take your rig to a competent welding supply shop. They will assist at no cost for trouble shooting. If, on the other hand, like the torch above, and the 8 torch tips in my own collection, which had cracked O-Rings.... Upgrade now and ensure that anyone using your torch is using a tool that's not going to hurt them. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439242#439242 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/torch_o_rings_491.jpg - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse Un/Subscription, Photoshare, and much much more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - Forums! http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:26 AM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Arch support question Paul, there are any number of ways to do it, as you mentioned. I'm happy with the method I chose, which was to laminate the bows from strips of 1/16" thick sitka spruce, glued together around a form made of particle board. The bows are very light and incredibly stiff and strong. Here are a couple of pictures: I made a total of 5 of them - one behind the firewall, one supporting the rear of the baggage compartment, one supporting the front instrument panel, one at the front seatback and one supporting the rear instrument panel. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 8:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Arch support question --> < pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> was wondering what the most common method is of constructing the top of fuselage arch support is. Was thinking of laminating several 1/8 Okume ply strips together in a jig. I have some extra Okume. If going this route, should I account for some spring back? Or is just simply cutting the arch out of the face of a 3/4 inch ply also a good way? Couldn't find anything good in the search. But I also like getting the most up to date way of thinking on it. I've finally got most of cockpits done , brake pedals, throttle linkage, part of door opening, seats etc. fairing strips on side fuselage, tail feathers, and tailwheel. Starting to look like a plane now, can't wait to see how it looks when I finish the top of fuselage! Thanks, Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439312#439312 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: FBG, Part Deux From: "jarheadpilot82" I know that Kevin would not likely do so, so I have taken it upon myself to provide a link showing his repair. The quality looks awesome! The workmanship is great, the humor still shines through ("Axel, the pond. The pond."), and his engine looks great with the new exhaust. I can't wait to see it flying. Just wanted everyone to see what a nice repair looks like. Hats off to you, Kevin! http://flycorvair.net/2015/03/13/current-corvair-instalation-in-a-pietenpol-pt-1/ -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439317#439317 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Arch support question From: "jarheadpilot82" Paul, Look at the pictures of Kevin Purtee's repair by clicking on the following link- http://flycorvair.net/2015/03/13/current-corvair-instalation-in-a-pietenpol-pt-1/ Is that what you are talking about in picture #4? The area between the rear instrument and the back of the front seat? -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439319#439319 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Arch support question From: Scott Knowlton A couple of pics for another example of the same. The laminating is fun, easy and strong once the instrument board and seat ba ck are glued on. Scott Knowlton Burlington Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 13, 2015, at 9:35 AM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > mail.com> > > Paul, > > Look at the pictures of Kevin Purtee's repair by clicking on the following link- > > http://flycorvair.net/2015/03/13/current-corvair-instalation-in-a-pietenpo l-pt-1/ > > Is that what you are talking about in picture #4? The area between the rea r instrument and the back of the front seat? > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439319#439319 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:20 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: BPA From: "Andy Garrett" I sent my check for membership to the BPA more than a month ago. It has not been cashed, and I have not been contacted in any way. The website is still showing the cover of a newsletter more than a year old. Has this assn gone dormant? I had planned to order several of the publications they list and sell, but I am reluctant to send another check not knowing if anyone is on the other end. Is this type of delayed response and out-of-date website condition common for the BPA, or is something amiss? I'm not judging--just trying to get a feel for what to expect. -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439322#439322 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Arch support question From: "nightmare" thanks guys. after further review of the plans...dugh, looks like ill be building mine that way (like Kevins). my eyeball engineering surely would have thought a little more structure was needed. guess not. thnks guys. also. any idea how Kevin got that very cool lettering done? sticker? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439324#439324 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA From: Steven Dortch Andy, you have elected to build a Pietenpol. That won't happen fast. have some patience. It will prepare you for cross country flights in your Pietenpol. I just dropped my dues in the mail box 10 min ago. Blue Skies, Steve D On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Andy Garrett wrote: > andy_garrett@live.com> > > I sent my check for membership to the BPA more than a month ago. It has > not been cashed, and I have not been contacted in any way. > > The website is still showing the cover of a newsletter more than a year > old. > > Has this assn gone dormant? > > I had planned to order several of the publications they list and sell, but > I am reluctant to send another check not knowing if anyone is on the other > end. > > Is this type of delayed response and out-of-date website condition common > for the BPA, or is something amiss? I'm not judging--just trying to get a > feel for what to expect. > > -------- > Andy Garrett > 'General Purpose Creative Dude' > Haysville, Kansas > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439322#439322 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Arch support question From: "jarheadpilot82" PM him. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439331#439331 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: "Andy Garrett" Just curious. I guess I'm just eager to apply all the facts and opinions to my developing understanding of what is to come. Having that information at my disposal is required for that understanding. Besides, the rather philisophical writings of William Wynn are central to my corvair-powered Piet build, and he is quite passionate in his distain for the idea of 'waiting'. [Wink] Just can't read and learn enough right now. [Shocked] -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439332#439332 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: Steven Dortch Andy, another site with lots of great info is the bowersflybaby.com site. many ideas and tips that crossover to Piets. Blue Skies, Steve D On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Andy Garrett wrote: > andy_garrett@live.com> > > Just curious. > > I guess I'm just eager to apply all the facts and opinions to my > developing understanding of what is to come. Having that information at my > disposal is required for that understanding. Besides, the rather > philisophical writings of William Wynn are central to my corvair-powered > Piet build, and he is quite passionate in his distain for the idea of > 'waiting'. [Wink] > > Just can't read and learn enough right now. [Shocked] > > -------- > Andy Garrett > 'General Purpose Creative Dude' > Haysville, Kansas > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439332#439332 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: "Andy Garrett" That is a great site! Looking it over was inspiring, as many of those Fly Baby guys and gals choose to 'theme' their planes with WWI livery--several with faux Spandau machine guns on the cowling. I intend something similar. Fun attitudes over there as well, and as you said, plenty of crossover information. -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439336#439336 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: Steven Dortch if you like that, look up the Faker Fokker. A pietenpol with a tail modified to look like a Fokker On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Andy Garrett wrote: > andy_garrett@live.com> > > That is a great site! Looking it over was inspiring, as many of those Fly > Baby guys and gals choose to 'theme' their planes with WWI livery--several > with faux Spandau machine guns on the cowling. I intend something similar. > > Fun attitudes over there as well, and as you said, plenty of crossover > information. > > -------- > Andy Garrett > 'General Purpose Creative Dude' > Haysville, Kansas > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439336#439336 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:43 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: "Bill Church" Andy, No, the association has not "gone dormant." There was a bit of a disruption in the publishing of the newsletter after Doc and Dee Mosher handed over the reins to John Hofmann about a year ago. However, it seems that those troubles are now in the past. The latest issue of the newsletter is currently being delivered by the post office. A revamped website is in the works. Word has it that online dues payment will be a welcome new feature. However, I'm not sure about your comment about "publications they list and sell". Doc compiled a list of useful books, but those books are available through the EAA, not the BPA. http://www.pietenpols.org/id1.html Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439339#439339 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Hey Andy You'll also want to check out Kansas City dawn patrol website. One of the original members (Marvin Story) developed, an had plans for an oxy acetylene fired faux machine gun on their site. You mentioned possibly a WWI derivative? What are you dreaming up(tell me yours and I'll tell ya mine) Glen. Aerial in progress(fuse off the bench tail feathers and rear pit seat this weekend) Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 13, 2015, at 2:46 PM, "Andy Garrett" wrote: > > > That is a great site! Looking it over was inspiring, as many of those Fly Baby guys and gals choose to 'theme' their planes with WWI livery--several with faux Spandau machine guns on the cowling. I intend something similar. > > Fun attitudes over there as well, and as you said, plenty of crossover information. > > -------- > Andy Garrett > 'General Purpose Creative Dude' > Haysville, Kansas > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439336#439336 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: "Andy Garrett" Thanks for the clarification Bill. I'll grab those from EAA then. Glen, I'm not planning any 'cloning' really--just a 'flavor'. I'll have what is essentially a solo cockpit due to my body weight of 255-260 (no gear). The forward cockpit will be baggage and maybe a lot of fuel (still haven't made my decision on a wing tank). It will have a removable hard cover with fake guns mounted to it. The engine will be a high mount Corvair with a spinner and eyebrows outside a narrow cowling. No tail changes, but colors will be German with a nod to my time with the 101st Airborne Division. That's my daydream vision this month. It may evolve. -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439347#439347 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: Greg Bacon Hey Andy! Glad to see another 101st vet. I was in the 1-101st Attack Helicopter Battalion "Expect No Mercy!" :-) On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Andy Garrett wrote: > andy_garrett@live.com> > > Thanks for the clarification Bill. I'll grab those from EAA then. > Glen, I'm not planning any 'cloning' really--just a 'flavor'. > I'll have what is essentially a solo cockpit due to my body weight of > 255-260 (no gear). The forward cockpit will be baggage and maybe a lot of > fuel (still haven't made my decision on a wing tank). It will have a > removable hard cover with fake guns mounted to it. > The engine will be a high mount Corvair with a spinner and eyebrows > outside a narrow cowling. No tail changes, but colors will be German with a > nod to my time with the 101st Airborne Division. > That's my daydream vision this month. It may evolve. > > -------- > Andy Garrett > 'General Purpose Creative Dude' > Haysville, Kansas > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439347#439347 > > -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: Steven Dortch My buddy/mentor Lew Mason has this WWI look alike, he calls der chicken flieger. http://www.35.eaachapter.org/apps/photos/ He now has a gun ring he mounts (for static display only) behind the pilot hole. I looks like a Bosche with a picklehaube helment and a Spandau. Blue Skies, Steve D On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 10:36 PM, Greg Bacon wrote: > Hey Andy! Glad to see another 101st vet. I was in the 1-101st Attack > Helicopter Battalion "Expect No Mercy!" > > :-) > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Andy Garrett > wrote: > >> andy_garrett@live.com> >> >> Thanks for the clarification Bill. I'll grab those from EAA then. >> Glen, I'm not planning any 'cloning' really--just a 'flavor'. >> I'll have what is essentially a solo cockpit due to my body weight of >> 255-260 (no gear). The forward cockpit will be baggage and maybe a lot of >> fuel (still haven't made my decision on a wing tank). It will have a >> removable hard cover with fake guns mounted to it. >> The engine will be a high mount Corvair with a spinner and eyebrows >> outside a narrow cowling. No tail changes, but colors will be German with a >> nod to my time with the 101st Airborne Division. >> That's my daydream vision this month. It may evolve. >> >> -------- >> Andy Garrett >> 'General Purpose Creative Dude' >> Haysville, Kansas >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439347#439347 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> br> enpol-List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Greg Bacon > > * > > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA From: "William Wynne" We got back from CC#32 and found a very nice new issue of the newsletter in the mailbox. Special thanks to Dowe, Ken and all the others who made material contributions to it. Andy, welcome aboard. While I have made a lot of comments about not waiting, I am mostly speaking of the people who will get started 'some day.' As pointed out by others, some patience and understanding goes a long way in traditional homebuilding. The key to not 'waiting' once you have gotten started is to find ways to make effective progress when waiting on one element. My actual golden rule of homebuilding is "Persistence Pays." Your project will present at least 1,000 opportunities to call it quits. To finish, all you have to do is master the phrase "I can always quit tomorrow" and keep chugging along. Even when the newsletter is set to 'High Blower' it still only comes out every 120 days. If you are thirsty, consider ordering a set of back issues direct from Doc and Dee. You will have a large pile of timeless content, and they are a good way to get to know a bit about many of the most prolific contributors here. -ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439350#439350 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aluminum welding troubles From: "William Wynne" As Ken and Barry pointed out, .050" is plenty thick for anyone who knows what they are doing to weld. So is .040". If you tour the Zenith factory you can see countless leak free wing tanks welded from .025", all done with normal Tig machines, by mortals. Keep in mind: Never weld mounting tabs on the tank, always use straps to mount it - Try to avoid any butt weld on a tank - If you are having a welder do it for you (good idea) bring him a pound of 1/16" 4043 rods so he isn't tempted to just try the rods he has laying around. I have welded about 150 Corvair oil pans from .050". If you would like to see what the welds look like, here is an 11 year old story with good pictures. http://www.flycorvair.com/601March2004.html -ww. 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