Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - engine failure "thread" (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 05:48 AM - Re: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment (gliderx5@comcast.net)
3. 08:21 AM - Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment (Andy Garrett)
4. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment (Scott Knowlton)
5. 08:46 AM - a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle Tony by your side!!!!! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
6. 10:40 AM - Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle Tony by your side!!!!! (Steven Dortch)
7. 10:45 AM - Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle Tony by your side!!!!! (Steven Dortch)
8. 10:47 AM - Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle Tony by your side!!!!! (Amsafetyc)
9. 11:15 AM - Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle Tony by yo (Andy Garrett)
10. 11:19 AM - Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment (Andy Garrett)
11. 11:33 AM - Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment (Andy Garrett)
12. 12:53 PM - Hot Fords (Douwe Blumberg)
13. 07:06 PM - Metal Fittings (tonyp51qa)
14. 07:45 PM - Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle Tony by yo (Andy Garrett)
15. 08:12 PM - Thank You! (Andy Garrett)
Message 1
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| Subject: | engine failure "thread" |
Hey William,
I honestly didn't have any motivation other than curiosity. Jack's thread
about his engine-out reminded me of what I'd heard at Brodhead, so I asked.
Each time something big like this happens, it's been discussed to help
educate us flyers/builders. I remember a great deal of discussion re Jacks,
John Dilatush's Subaru engine-out, my disaster, Kevins issue, Chris'
Mitsubishi issues, Jeff's Ford issues and many others I can't remember.
So that was it my friend, just sparked a memory I hadn't thought of since
July. No harm, no foul.
I think a good "vair is a fine engine if done right and don't have any axes
to grind with them in any way. I've seen lots of nice ones flying around.
Douwe
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment |
Well there you go. Andy, all of us here are as different as our airplanes a
nd building approaches. Some scrounging and using materials that others wou
ld never consider using. Others using nothing but the best, most proven, ce
rtified techniques and products. Some looking to get into the air quickly.
Others producing museum quality pieces of art. Some blessed with tact and d
iplomacy, others not so much. But, all have something to offer whether it's
years of experience, thinking outside the box, humor, friendship, or just
stirring the pot a little! Chin up! Buy some wood. Start making pieces, hav
ing fun, and continue to share your building expierence.
Malcolm Morrison
www.wienerdogaero.com
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett@live.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:53:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investm
ent
>
Andy,
I will save time and speak plainly: Unless you have a very serious approach
change, your never going to make it in aircraft building.
Your Comment: I just have certain 'devices' I use to ferret out the informa
tion and passionate opinions that I seek."
Is pretty insulting to say the least. As man who writes as passionately as
you do, I find this comment incredible. All the same, I apologize. I am not
here to have people "ferret out" things. I am here to share what I know. T
he very concept that you honestly think that knowing little or nothing abou
t planes, you can spark an internet discussion between people you have neve
r met, and then on the basis or reading a few hundred words, suddenly you a
re qualified to evaluate the mechanical integrity, the operational history,
the builder issues and details of each option. That my friend, is a total
joke. Yet after reading a few hundred of my words, you have made an assessm
ent of my "mechanical integrity", my "operational history" and decided that
public ridicule and embarrassment was the direction to take. You've decide
d that I am ignorance and declared me unfit with no hope of success. Moreov
er, you've done it in front of others who obviously admire you, who may hav
e better under!
stood my cultural and education bias and chosen to help me as they could.In
25 years I have personally known 500 people who have finished a homebuilt,
maybe 180 of them working on a plans built design that was their first pla
ne. They had a common characteristic: They all found 2 or 3 successfully bu
ilders of the same design, and followed their lead. They didn't 'vet' or sc
reen these people and evaluate their integrity, because they didn't have th
e expertise to do so. They just looked at their success, and used it as a p
attern. That is vetting sir. They just correctly assumed that they would le
arn why these successful builders did what they did along the way. Such an
assumption is also a form of vetting. They didn't blindly follow anyone, bu
t they didn't question peoples decisions on subjects they really didn't kno
w anything about yet. How else do we understand a person decision unless we
question why it was made--explore the contributing factors?. This is a log
ical approach!
. To not do so IS blindly following. Your statement is unclear!
at best
--contradictory at worst. I also have met, in person easily more than 10,00
0 people who told me that they were absolutely personally committed to succ
essfully building their plane, and all of these people failed. Failed to do
what sir? Fly a plane they completed? I recently met a man in his eighties
who had just completed the plane he knew he would never fly. Did he fail?
What of those builders with a 20 year old half built aircraft in their gara
ge which reminds them of all the great nights working with their father? Ha
ving enjoyed and learned from what they accomplished, did they too fail by
your standards? They also had a common characteristic: They thought just li
ke you. Again, a few hundred words, and you know how I think? Presumptuous.
My experience says that people very rarely change their approach, no matter
what they say. Go ahead, take the next 10 years of your spare time and all
your extra money and try to prove that you are the 1 in 10,000 guy who is
going to make the "start arguments, and evaluate from no experience" proces
s work. It was not my intention to start an argument. I appologize again Mr
. Wynne. Good luck with that. Your life, your choice, your approach. -ww.
I am truly sorry for any offense. It was my desire to spend many years here
as I worked through and enjoyed my build. Obviously, I will find a differe
nt engine platform to build, as you clearly have no patience for my kind. I
guess the money I've spent with your company thus far was wasted. I fear t
hat I will also have to become a mere lurker here on the forums, trying to
absorb what I can through passive means. Perhaps a few will help me through
PMs.
You, the leading expert on Corvairs, an authority on Pietenpols, and an amb
assador in the homebuilding world have read a couple hundred of my words an
d passed judgment. I have been weighed, measured, and found wanting..., by
you. Where a rational man recognizing his status in this community would ha
ve sent me private message to coach me on my approach if he objected, you c
hose public shaming and humiliation. I find your attitude to be unbecoming
a man positioned to influence so many. Mentorship does not seem to suit you
on this day.
I consider the matter closed. Best to you and yours.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439635#439635
===========
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===========
===========
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment |
Terry,
Yes I have ordered material for the build. My work space is set up and organized.
No. I have not began construction. The weather here in Kansas is not yet what I
need it to be for epoxies to develop their best bonds (my shop does not have
climate control).
In the mean time, I am taking the 'read the instruction manual cover to cover approach'
before beginning, as advocated by anyone who ever wrote a construction
manual. Such reading inspires questions. This forum exists for those questions.
Sorry that I ask so many. I will try to meter my questions in such a way as
not to offend any more members, since you have implied that 34 posts in 29 days
is excessive.
As for the BRS question: This product was made for experimental aircraft. There
are $7000 aircraft flying with one installed. Asking such a question does not
reflect my building priorities.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439669#439669
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment |
Andy,
Welcome to the list and group of builders of a great simple airplane. I've been
building for ten years and have thoroughly enjoyed the process. Some great concurrent
activity I might suggest while you're waiting for the warmer "glue friendly"
weather:
Make yourself a rib jig - all materials you probably already have for this or could
pick up at Lowe's or Home Depot aviation department
Mock up a fuselage - this exercise helped me tremendously for all sorts of reasons.
I got used to longerons and gussets and their amazing strength. I became
comfortable with the cockpit size but also made decisions on my seat back angle
and such. I had many mistakes out if the way before cutting in to expensive
spruce. I turned it into a soapbox racer for my 11 year old (who moved out two
years ago...time flies!).
Make metal parts. Other than the gear brackets most of the parts can be made ahead
of the wood build. If you have access to 4130 you can build your control
system, tailwheel, wing fittings, engine mount brackets etc.... Get them painted
and put them away for future use.
You mentioned you're process driven and that is what you need to be to get this
kind of project done. The best spirit to have when walking in to your shop is
"what can I get done today". Something - even a ten minute task of filing the
burrs out of a metal fitting - is progress toward completion.
I wish you the best of luck, enjoy the build, and the great people you'll meet.
Scott K
Burlington On
Straight axle, C85
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 20, 2015, at 11:25 AM, "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett@live.com> wrote:
>
>
> Terry,
>
> Yes I have ordered material for the build. My work space is set up and organized.
>
> No. I have not began construction. The weather here in Kansas is not yet what
I need it to be for epoxies to develop their best bonds (my shop does not have
climate control).
>
> In the mean time, I am taking the 'read the instruction manual cover to cover
approach' before beginning, as advocated by anyone who ever wrote a construction
manual. Such reading inspires questions. This forum exists for those questions.
Sorry that I ask so many. I will try to meter my questions in such a way
as not to offend any more members, since you have implied that 34 posts in 29
days is excessive.
>
> As for the BRS question: This product was made for experimental aircraft. There
are $7000 aircraft flying with one installed. Asking such a question does not
reflect my building priorities.
>
> --------
> Andy Garrett
> 'General Purpose Creative Dude'
> Haysville, Kansas
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439669#439669
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle Tony |
by your side!!!!!
For the newer builders to the list-----and please forgive me to the old han
ds on the list who are by now, I'm sure, growing wearing of me talking abou
t my Uncle
Tony Bingelis and his homebuilder books.
For guys like Andy and Tony or anybody who is just getting started building
a Piet, 95% of your building questions can be answered in great clarity b
y having a set
of the Tony Bingelis Homebuilder books by your shop. (he's not really my U
ncle by the way)
Then Bingelis books are about $90 for the set of 4 right now but I swear th
ey will save you HOURS of wasted time and TONS of money by being able to fi
nd out
how to do a certain part of your project correctly the FIRST time and knowi
ng that it is airworthy and sound without worry or angst.
"okay....how the heck do I make windshields??" The Bingelis books not o
nly show you but show you like 3 ways to do it.
"how do I go about making a cowling now??" Tony shows you like four or
five different ways to make a cowling, a fuel tank, landing gears, you nam
e it. He shows
you how to time your mags, he shows you how to select AN hardware and how
to properly install it.
This guy is like having an expert sitting on your coffee table ready to ans
wer all of your questions----and especially for a Piet since Tony talks a L
OT about simple, good,
fun, wood homebuilt airplanes.
The SINGLE best resource I had while building my Pietenpol were the homebui
lding books by Tony Bingelis. I hope the newer builders will ask for the
se books for their
birthday, Father's Day, or whatever day you wish because they are incredibl
y good to have while you're building a Piet. You get straight answers, l
ots and lots of options
on how to do this or that and lots of great sketches and diagrams explainin
g everything so that you can build with confidence and rest assured that yo
ur work is airworthy
and sound.
Mike C.
https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa-shop/homebuilders_corner/2251598800000__bingelis
-set-of-4
[cid:image001.jpg@01D06303.712116B0]
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle |
Tony by your side!!!!!
I agree on Mike C on Uncle Tony.
I caught myself reading past the subject I was looking for and reading for
many pages.
Wish It was well indexed.
He has some dated ideas and/or ideas I don't agree with.
IE You must have a static port on the side of the plane. To not do so is
just sloppy and will allow instrument error into your altimeter and
airspeed! After discussions, I decided that the neutral air behind the
instrument panel was good enough and did not add complexity and weight. I
am not that accurate of a pilot anyhow.
I never did anything exactly the way he said, I felt I found a better way
or my plane was not exactly the way he drew.
Read him, it is like having an old airport bum who has built several planes
with you.
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>
> For the newer builders to the list-----and please forgive me to the old
> hands on the list who are by now, I'm sure, growing wearing of me talking
> about my Uncle
>
> Tony Bingelis and his homebuilder books.
>
>
> For guys like Andy and Tony or anybody who is just getting started
> building a Piet, 95% of your building questions can be answered in great
> clarity by having a set
>
> of the Tony Bingelis Homebuilder books by your shop. (he's not really my
> Uncle by the way)
>
>
> Then Bingelis books are about $90 for the set of 4 right now but I swear
> they will save you HOURS of wasted time and TONS of money by being able to
> find out
>
> how to do a certain part of your project correctly the FIRST time and
> knowing that it is airworthy and sound without worry or angst.
>
>
> "okay....how the heck do I make windshields??" The Bingelis books not
> only show you but show you like 3 ways to do it.
>
>
> "how do I go about making a cowling now??" Tony shows you like four or
> five different ways to make a cowling, a fuel tank, landing gears, you
> name it. He shows
>
> you how to time your mags, he shows you how to select AN hardware and how
> to properly install it.
>
>
> This guy is like having an expert sitting on your coffee table ready to
> answer all of your questions----and especially for a Piet since Tony talks
> a LOT about simple, good,
>
> fun, wood homebuilt airplanes.
>
>
> The SINGLE best resource I had while building my Pietenpol were the
> homebuilding books by Tony Bingelis. I hope the newer builders will ask
> for these books for their
>
> birthday, Father's Day, or whatever day you wish because they are
> incredibly good to have while you're building a Piet. You get straight
> answers, lots and lots of options
>
> on how to do this or that and lots of great sketches and diagrams
> explaining everything so that you can build with confidence and rest
> assured that your work is airworthy
>
> and sound.
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa-shop/homebuilders_corner/2251598800000__bingelis-set-of-4
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle |
Tony by your side!!!!!
Oh yeah, next I would get the "1932 Flying and Glider manual" from EAA. It
has a good article on building and plans, very tiny hard to read plans. but
they give you a different look.
I bought the whole set of manuals.
Steve D
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I agree on Mike C on Uncle Tony.
> I caught myself reading past the subject I was looking for and reading for
> many pages.
>
> Wish It was well indexed.
>
> He has some dated ideas and/or ideas I don't agree with.
> IE You must have a static port on the side of the plane. To not do so is
> just sloppy and will allow instrument error into your altimeter and
> airspeed! After discussions, I decided that the neutral air behind the
> instrument panel was good enough and did not add complexity and weight. I
> am not that accurate of a pilot anyhow.
> I never did anything exactly the way he said, I felt I found a better way
> or my plane was not exactly the way he drew.
>
>
> Read him, it is like having an old airport bum who has built several
> planes with you.
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
> Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> For the newer builders to the list-----and please forgive me to the old
>> hands on the list who are by now, I'm sure, growing wearing of me talking
>> about my Uncle
>>
>> Tony Bingelis and his homebuilder books.
>>
>>
>>
>> For guys like Andy and Tony or anybody who is just getting started
>> building a Piet, 95% of your building questions can be answered in great
>> clarity by having a set
>>
>> of the Tony Bingelis Homebuilder books by your shop. (he's not really my
>> Uncle by the way)
>>
>>
>>
>> Then Bingelis books are about $90 for the set of 4 right now but I swear
>> they will save you HOURS of wasted time and TONS of money by being able to
>> find out
>>
>> how to do a certain part of your project correctly the FIRST time and
>> knowing that it is airworthy and sound without worry or angst.
>>
>>
>>
>> "okay....how the heck do I make windshields??" The Bingelis books not
>> only show you but show you like 3 ways to do it.
>>
>>
>>
>> "how do I go about making a cowling now??" Tony shows you like four
>> or five different ways to make a cowling, a fuel tank, landing gears, you
>> name it. He shows
>>
>> you how to time your mags, he shows you how to select AN hardware and
>> how to properly install it.
>>
>>
>>
>> This guy is like having an expert sitting on your coffee table ready to
>> answer all of your questions----and especially for a Piet since Tony talks
>> a LOT about simple, good,
>>
>> fun, wood homebuilt airplanes.
>>
>>
>>
>> The SINGLE best resource I had while building my Pietenpol were the
>> homebuilding books by Tony Bingelis. I hope the newer builders will ask
>> for these books for their
>>
>> birthday, Father's Day, or whatever day you wish because they are
>> incredibly good to have while you're building a Piet. You get straight
>> answers, lots and lots of options
>>
>> on how to do this or that and lots of great sketches and diagrams
>> explaining everything so that you can build with confidence and rest
>> assured that your work is airworthy
>>
>> and sound.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa-shop/homebuilders_corner/2251598800000__bingelis-set-of-4
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle |
Tony by your side!!!!!
I was about to say the same, even a would be builder could benefit by readin
g them first. Uncle Tony even suggests where to begin your build as to have t
he greatest success in completion hint: it's not the wings
The books save time and effort even if the exact situation you're facing isn
't in there it does contain work a rounds to help conquer builder snags.
It's the same advice many gave me when I started building
John
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 20, 2015, at 11:46 AM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners
, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>
> For the newer builders to the list-----and please forgive me to the old ha
nds on the list who are by now, I'm sure, growing wearing of me talking abou
t my Uncle
> Tony Bingelis and his homebuilder books.
>
> For guys like Andy and Tony or anybody who is just getting started buildin
g a Piet, 95% of your building questions can be answered in great clarity b
y having a set
> of the Tony Bingelis Homebuilder books by your shop. (he's not really my U
ncle by the way)
>
> Then Bingelis books are about $90 for the set of 4 right now but I swear t
hey will save you HOURS of wasted time and TONS of money by being able to fi
nd out
> how to do a certain part of your project correctly the FIRST time and know
ing that it is airworthy and sound without worry or angst.
>
> "okay....how the heck do I make windshields??" The Bingelis books not o
nly show you but show you like 3 ways to do it.
>
> "how do I go about making a cowling now??" Tony shows you like four or
five different ways to make a cowling, a fuel tank, landing gears, you nam
e it. He shows
> you how to time your mags, he shows you how to select AN hardware and how
to properly install it.
>
> This guy is like having an expert sitting on your coffee table ready to an
swer all of your questions----and especially for a Piet since Tony talks a L
OT about simple, good,
> fun, wood homebuilt airplanes.
>
> The SINGLE best resource I had while building my Pietenpol were the homebu
ilding books by Tony Bingelis. I hope the newer builders will ask for the
se books for their
> birthday, Father's Day, or whatever day you wish because they are incredib
ly good to have while you're building a Piet. You get straight answers, l
ots and lots of options
> on how to do this or that and lots of great sketches and diagrams explaini
ng everything so that you can build with confidence and rest assured that yo
ur work is airworthy
> and sound.
>
> Mike C.
>
> https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa-shop/homebuilders_corner/2251598800000__bingeli
s-set-of-4
>
>
>
> <image001.jpg>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle |
Tony by yo
Thanks Mike! I will order today. :D
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439680#439680
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment |
Thanks for the perspective Malcolm.
I won't be discouraged. I'm still eager to get going.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439681#439681
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Finding your own balance on expense vs investment |
Thanks Scott. Some solid, actionable advice there.
The rib jig sounds like a good project to start with. After making a call to the
lumber wholesaler who let me hand-select all of the mahogany for my boat build
(check on spruce and/or DF availability), I'll head to Lowes for a few materials.
I still have some 1/4" Hydrotek marine ply laying around. I saw a spar construction
method over on Westcoastpiet.com that I really liked. It was 1/4" marine
ply between 3/8" strips of solid wood (spruce presumably) for an I-beam set up
1" thick at the top and bottom. I'm eager to start on those too.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439684#439684
Message 12
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Hey Andy,
Each Ford seems to be a unique individual. I followed the advice of some
people who had actually flown their Fords successfully and they seemed to
agree to run it on the ground for a long time, 20 hrs seems to ring a bell.
Seems like a long time but they swore it wouldn't loosen up 'til then.
I probably ran mine about 12-15 but never had any overheating issues, but
then again she only flew around the pattern once before a bad landing forced
a rebuild and I replaced the engine because I thought we were moving to the
mountains.
If you don't have a steam relief tube to the front of the head, it could
easily fool one into thinking the engine was overheating. Also, make sure
the water temp gauge bulb is not somewhere that it can be caught in a steam
pocket so you are getting accurate readings. But if she's steaming steadily
and the gauge is accurately reading high then something's definitely wrong.
You have the same water pump as I did and it is a great set up as it's
pushing hot water rather than sucking hot water through the system and it's
at the bottom of the system. Just make sure it's pumping, and also make
sure the pulley on the pump is sized correctly so the water isn't pumping so
fast through the system that it can't cool enough. Too fast is bad, too
slow is bad.
Jeff Faith chased an overheating Ford issue all last year, so it can
definitely be challenging.
I certainly no expert, but if you keep eliminating things it should
surrender eventually. Try tracking down Ken Perkins and ask his advice. He
probably has the most Ford experience of anyone around these days. Dan H
also flies a Ford but I don't think he's ever had any overheating issues.
Good luck,
Douwe
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Has anyone manufactured metal fittings and sold them for the Pietenpol? Is there
any plans or supplemental plans out there for building the Aileron, vertical
or horizontal stabilizer control horns with a solid piece of steel/aluminum?
I don't have access to a TIG welder.
Tony[/list]
--------
Tony Crawford
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| Subject: | Re: a great way to build a Pietenpol----have my Uncle |
Tony by yo
On the way!
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
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As I was logging off the list earlier today, I checked my email before heading
to the hardware store for jig building material. It turned out that I had an invitation
to come observe a completed, Corvair powered Piet just before covering.
Naturally, I jumped at the chance!
What I found was two great guys, happy to share their wisdom and experience with
this airplane and the Piet community.
I took measurements, and lots of photos. The builder and his son had come up with
a lot of neat tricks which I hadn't seen in other examples--really cool stuff!
The controls were awesome and the fuel tank was simply genius. They had incorporated
several very elegant solutions to challenges I was already wrestling with
in my mind. I learned more in an hour than I had in weeks of study.
My host is a member here, but as he may wish to remain anonymous, I will simply
say thanks to him one more time.
If I am fortunate enough to get a future invitation, I will be prepared to do some
rib stitching. heavy lifting, whatever is needed.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439698#439698
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