---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/30/15: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:30 AM - Tim Hansen, Orient, OH Private Checkride, Cleveland, OH March 2005 (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 2. 10:08 AM - Four More Horsepower Added (AircamperN11MS) 3. 11:32 AM - Re: engine failure (AircamperN11MS) 4. 11:55 AM - Re: Re: engine failure (Gary Boothe) 5. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: engine failure (danhelsper@aol.com) 6. 01:26 PM - Re: Four More Horsepower Added (aerocarjake) 7. 01:47 PM - Re: engine failure (jarheadpilot82) 8. 01:58 PM - Re: engine failure (AircamperN11MS) 9. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: engine failure (Louie Bakrevski) 10. 08:45 PM - Re: engine failure (William Wynne) 11. 08:48 PM - weight and balance studying. (dmcb84) 12. 10:05 PM - Re: engine failure (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:50 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tim Hansen, Orient, OH Private Checkride, Cleveland, OH March 2005 Then gent that WW speaks of, Tim Hansen, visited Cleveland to finish up his private pilot rating at Burke Lakefront Airport here on the shores of Lake Erie in March of 2005. During one of Tim's evenings we went to see my Pietenpol together at my hangar and despite the 20 degree temperatures Tim poured over every detail of the Piet enpol. Later that year I saw Tim again at Brodhead so you could tell he was serious. Congratulations on your engine run Tim! Mike C. Ohio [cid:image001.jpg@01D06AD4.7E8CC4B0] [cid:image002.png@01D06AD4.7E8CC4B0] ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Four More Horsepower Added From: "AircamperN11MS" Good morning guys and gals, I was able to add four more horsepower to my Piet a week ago. Attached is a pic of how I did it. The bad news about adding horsepower is the added fuel burn and the exhaust emissions that go with it. Oh, and all the extra drag. I could keep going but I won't. We actually had an airshow at our airport on 3/21 and 3/22. The Thunderbirds were there and the horses you see are part of the ten Budweiser Clydesdale's that were there. Dang those things are big. Chris Tracy came down for the show and I was finally able to get him up in my plane for a decent ride. We had a blast and got to fly some close formation with his brother in his Pitts. Chris was grinning ear to ear. Sorry about the size but,,,,,,,, Hopefully this adds a smile to some faces today, Cheers all, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440040#440040 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150320_084145_resized_396.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure From: "AircamperN11MS" Good news, The French Valley Piet that didn't make it to Brodhead last year has flown again. It flew on Sat, 3/28/15 after all the repairs were made. I understand that they are planning to attend the West Coast Piet Gathering on June 6th. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440042#440042 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:45 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure That is good news!! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 11:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure --> Good news, The French Valley Piet that didn't make it to Brodhead last year has flown again. It flew on Sat, 3/28/15 after all the repairs were made. I understand that they are planning to attend the West Coast Piet Gathering on June 6th. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440042#440042 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:08 PM PST US From: danhelsper@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure Which engine was it that had the engine failure? No one has said. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear TN -----Original Message----- From: AircamperN11MS Sent: Mon, Mar 30, 2015 1:33 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure Good news, The French Valley Piet that didn't make it to Brodhead last year has flown again. It flew on Sat, 3/28/15 after all the repairs were made. I understand that they are planning to attend the West Coast Piet Gathering on June 6th. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440042#440042 - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse Un/Subscription, Photoshare, and much much more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - Forums! http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Four More Horsepower Added From: "aerocarjake" Scott, Even though they have lined up for rides, I don't think they are going to fit in the front seat.....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440046#440046 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure From: "jarheadpilot82" Dan, If you will reread William's post, you will see that they didn't have an engine failure as much as they had a carburetor failure. And a poorly designed gear geometry coupled with a poor decision making to continue a flight with a known rough running engine. And yes, it was a Corvair. But I sense you already had that figured out, but felt the need to ask. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440047#440047 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure From: "AircamperN11MS" I must add that the pilot did a wonderful job making it to an airport. He was over some VERY rough terrain when he experienced the rough engine. Had two people been in the plane, the outcome could have been much worse. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440048#440048 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure From: Louie Bakrevski Did any body got the NTSB report on why did engine lost power. Did anybody took Carb apart and have report on why it lost power, so we don't make the same mistake. Or is this just a guess of the cause. Has anybody talk with the builders? Enqwering minds want to know? Louie Sent from my iPad > On Mar 30, 2015, at 3:49 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > > > Dan, > > If you will reread William's post, you will see that they didn't have an engine failure as much as they had a carburetor failure. And a poorly designed gear geometry coupled with a poor decision making to continue a flight with a known rough running engine. And yes, it was a Corvair. > > But I sense you already had that figured out, but felt the need to ask. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440047#440047 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure From: "William Wynne" Scott, I know you are friends with those guys, and I like them also. But just to be accurate, with hope that others may learn something, let me point out that the terrain that those guys we flying over that day, particularly the last 2/3s of the last leg were pretty flat, and are almost all farmland served by rotating irrigation systems which are usually on very flat ground. From their report: .. Peter began experiencing engine trouble on the flight from Tucumcari, New Mexico to Guymon. Peter kept the airplane flying as far as Guymon, but the airplane was damaged on landing making it impossible for the airplane to continue any further. . To be fair, their first days of the trip covered 1,200 miles over very bad terrain. however on the last day they were already at the west Texas grasslands. Tucumcari NM and Guymon OK are only about 160 miles apart, most of what is between them is very flat Texas. The cities are connected in a dead straight line by a 4 lane highway, route 54. The halfway point is Dalhart TX, which has a large municipal airport, and the 3/4 mark is Stratford TX, which has a paved 3,000' airport right next to 54. .. .. I spoke to these guys at Oshkosh 72 hours later, and looked at their photos. They described to me that the plane was not running perfectly before this leg. But critically, I listened to the description of the last leg by the pilot, and he described having a long deteriorating condition on that leg, before he got to the 1/2 point. It is my belief that he was fixated on getting to the planned rendezvous with the ground crew at Guymon, and because of this he overflew the airports at Dalhart and Stratford. He may not have known about them, and that is why it is critical to know what is on the route. Either way, there was the highway, and it is far better to make a precautionary landing on a wide road than a forced one en route to an airport. Lesson: Once your plane is not running or flying right, your ability to develop an alternative plan, to visually see little airports, or consider a precautionary landing is greatly reduced. .. .. Scott, I agree he did a fair job landing, even though the plane ended up on it's back. How can I say that? because I did the weight and balance on the plane before it was covered, and I told them it would have a very aft CG, and the landing gear was too far back for a plane with brakes. They elected to ignore this. That was the mistake point that put the plane on it's back, not what the pilot was doing in Guymon. Many skilled pilots would have done the same thing, because the plane had the gear too far back. Lesson: When I privately point out that your gear is too far back, and you think I am kidding, I might later publicly use the example in hopes that some one else might learn from it. I hope when they rebuilt the plane that they corrected the wing position, but I am going to guess they did not. .. .. Before anyone gets upset about plain talk about a specific accident, let me point out the following: I know the builder; I saw the plane at several stages of the building, including in CA; I know the engine model very well, I know the airframe well; I personally spoke to the pilot after the accident; and I hold a degree in accident investigation from Embry-Riddle. These things don't make me better than anyone else, but they do qualify me to offer some intelligent commentary on the event. Scott knows these guys also, and also has good input to learn from. Almost no talk about accidents on the internet comes from personally informed people like Scott and I. There is something that could be gained here which is not available in most comments elsewhere. .. .. For the record, the issue was with the Carb, which is the same one that came on a Continental, so you might want to call it a carb failure, but it isn't really accurate nor informative to call it an engine failure. If there was a guy out there flying a continental who dismissed the potential to learn anything because he thought this was a Corvair problem, he is being foolish, because he is likely flying an identical carb. .. If anyone would like to imply that a Corvair couldn't have made the flight, Please look at this month's Kitplanes, The Corvair powered KR-2S pictured at Chino CA, lives in Eastern PA, and was built by this guy: http://flycorvair.net/2012/02/27/kr-2s-at-700-hours-joe-horton/ It flew out and back in the same three day weekend. .ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440054#440054 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: weight and balance studying. From: "dmcb84" I am posting this because I would be one of those "boys who prefer a steel-tube fuselage". One that is "stress analyzed" and can easly meet the "requirements of the deparment of commerce". A flying and glider fuse, no door, no cutout, no widening, bare bones steel tube. [Rolling Eyes] ......yup. Honestly, it will just be fun to learn a new building process. With that said i would like to weld the center struts and wing fittings in place for simplicity/strength. This would necessitate some planning and i would like to start marking up the placement on the bench. I received a few articles from Mr. Doc Mosher. One of the articles was the weight and balance studys. After reading those articles, previously reading ac43.13, and CAM 18, I compared my numbers to a group from those articles. I have an idea as to placement of things, just wondering who else has compared to these articles. It took me a while tonight to wrap my head around removing and adding the weight of the engine, or even more confusing moving the wing around. If anyone could help me verify, the help would be greatly appreciated. If this is boring Im sorry. Some numbers/info.... Engine-corvair Fuse- 161" Engine mount-32" back of prop-firewall LE wing- 10" aft firewall Seatback- 71" aft firewall Pilot weight- 135lb (stickman- literally) This would put the CG about 17" back from the LE on moat that i compared. Thanks in advance if anyone can help verify. David McBride Rochester, NY dmcb84@hotmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440055#440055 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine failure From: "taildrags" Substitute "Continental A65" for "Corvair" in the story of the French Valley Piet and you have the infamous nose-over of my airplane, NX41CC, on Veteran's Day in November of 2004. It was not an engine failure, it was a carburetor icing occurrence on a beautiful fall day. The precautionary landing came after loss of power with very little (or no) power remaining as the plane was put into a rough south Texas pasture resulted in stresses that overwhelmed a rough weld on one of the landing gear legs, which led to a collapse of the undercarriage and the wipeout. If there had been bystanders or nearby observers (non-pilots), they would every single one of them have told "News 8" that "the airplane's engine lost power, sputtered, cut out, and then the airplane went down". The news anchor would probably have closed the segment with something like, "the engine failure and crash are being investigated". The 'certified' Continental A65 engine did not fail. However, these stories grow legs and a life of their own, and the legends live on. If anyone cares to read more about this, I have some photos and text at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/incident.html but my guess is that nobody wants to read about Continental "failures"... Corvair "failures" make for much better news. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440057#440057 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.