---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/11/15: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:47 AM - Books for an idiot? (BritishJim) 2. 07:13 AM - Re: Books for an idiot? (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 3. 07:37 AM - Re: Books for an idiot? (Steven Dortch) 4. 08:34 AM - Re: Books for an idiot? (tools) 5. 11:13 AM - Re: Books for an idiot? (THOMAS.233327) 6. 11:24 AM - Re: Books for an idiot? (nightmare) 7. 04:24 PM - Re: Books for an idiot? (jarheadpilot82) 8. 05:30 PM - Re: Books for an idiot? (Jack Philips) 9. 08:09 PM - Re: Some workshop ideas...... (aerocarjake) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot? From: "BritishJim" Greetings! Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem.... ....I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans! Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared for total newbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not full-sized into full-scale components. I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they cover the plans-building process from scratch? Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast learner - but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of building and far too concentrated on the actual flying bit! Many thanks, Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440631#440631 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot? From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Hi Jim Although uncle Tony's books are a treasure trove of valuable skills, they don't specifically address your question. May I suggest that your first project will be to build a sturdy work bench about 4'x16' in size, then layout directly on that. Read the flying and glider manuals republished by EAA, and get Tony Bingelis' books as well. I'm building from plans presented in the Flying and Glider manuals. They're not hard to follow. Sometimes you have to dig a little for specific info, but it's all about learning Enjoy you're build. Glen. Aerial in progress(fuse off bench, tail feathers of bench, Corvair engine for WW conversion being disassembled) Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 11, 2015, at 6:44 AM, "BritishJim" wrote: > > > Greetings! > > Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem.... > > ....I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans! > > Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared for total newbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not full-sized into full-scale components. > > I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they cover the plans-building process from scratch? > > Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast learner - but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of building and far too concentrated on the actual flying bit! > > Many thanks, > Jim. > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440631#440631 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot? From: Steven Dortch British Jim, I strongly recommend finding a mentor. Usually an older builder. Preferably someone who has built a Piet. But a flybaby is good too. Mine has told me great things like "try putting the bolt in the other way." Internet videos are also great. The EAA has great series. Blue Skies, Steve D On Apr 11, 2015 8:49 AM, "BritishJim" wrote: > james@pieceofcakepr.com> > > Greetings! > > Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem.... > > ....I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans! > > Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared > for total newbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not > full-sized into full-scale components. > > I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they > cover the plans-building process from scratch? > > Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast > learner - but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of > building and far too concentrated on the actual flying bit! > > Many thanks, > Jim. > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the > ground.... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440631#440631 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Books for an idiot? From: "tools" Plus one on the mentor. However, given your rather general lack of knowledge of the process, rather than lack of specifics, consider woodworkers, shop teachers, even model builders as they all build stuff from wood, from other than full sized plans. Once that process sort of sinks in, and I imagine it will very quickly, other plane builders, bingelis books and even other eaa home building publications will make a lot more sense. Oh, even plywood kayak builders employ many of the same disciplines as wood airplane building. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440641#440641 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:40 AM PST US From: "THOMAS.233327" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot? Jim Find and join your local EAA chapter. The quickest way to get to know everyone is to become an officer (personally I like treasurer). There you will find other builders who can help you. Get the Bingelis books. Also the EAA book "WOOD". Post your questions here, and use the archives of this list. There are no dumb questions. It might be helpful to get one or two of the classic books on boat building. Work on the project every day, even if for only 10 minutes. Cleaning up the shop counts. Figuring out what the drawings and text say counts. The whole thing devolves into building one part at a time until you have enough parts to put together to make a bigger assembly, then putting together that assembly. If you don't like the quality of your work on something, throw it away and build it again. In building from plans it is common to build the airplane two or three times, to have a bigger scrap pile than finished airplane. You are going to have one heck of an adventure! Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "BritishJim" Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 6:44:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot? Greetings! Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem.... ....I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans! Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared for total newbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not full-sized into full-scale components. I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they cover the plans-building process from scratch? Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast learner - but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of building and far too concentrated on the actual flying bit! Many thanks, Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440631#440631 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Books for an idiot? From: "nightmare" heres the basics..more an overview than step by step. first get comfortable with your power tools after you've got the bench built, get a framing square, pencil and wooden blocks. start with an elevator or rudder and just draw out the part onto the bench and nail or screw down some blocks on the perimeter line you drew for your part. cut the plywood that ties together the perimeter wood pieces. t88 it in place using clamps or staples or weights. let set for atleast 6 hours, flip it over and t88 the oposite side plywood bits. then start marking out, cutting and epoxying in place the interior structural pieces. then the same with the capstrip pieces. let dry then plenty of sanding to get the shape you want. you may want to do all the above with some pine just for practice. if your comfortable working with a table saw it should all fall into place easily after looking over the plans for that part several times. if you just concentrate on one piece at a time it is much less overwhelming. if the piece is not completed to your satisfaction you can either fix it or start over . also one of the pics top left corner shows the bottom of an aluminum soda can attached to a block of wood. use that with little wood coffee stir sticks to mix and appktappky t88. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440656#440656 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1514_124.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1519_184.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1508_100.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Books for an idiot? From: "jarheadpilot82" Jim, The idiot is the guy that doesn't ask and just builds blindly. You are no idiot. All the responses have been good, and you should follow them. My advice is read everything you can, and watch YouTube as there is a lot of advice there ( some good, some not so much...). I have found that watching the EAA videos has been a great help. I know you are up in the Great White North, but another place to go is to download your own copy of AC 43.13-1b, the FAA's book of acceptable construction practices. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861 Hope that helps. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440679#440679 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:21 PM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot? Jim, You've gotten some good advice already, although nothing that actually answers your "main concern". If you can possibly make it to Sun 'n' Fun in a couple of weeks, spending some time at the woodworking tent would be invaluable to you. If you can't make that venue, perhaps you can make it to Oshkosh (and if you go to Oshkosh you should certainly come to Brodhead the weekend before). There's nothing like seeing the jigs laid out in front of you and seeing how the pieces of wood are forced to take shape, and seeing it with your own eyes, rather than looking at pictures in a book. As for translating plans that are not full sized into full sized components, that is fairly easy. The plans just show the general layout and arrangement of the wooden members. The dimensions on the plans are the important thing, and every piece is dimensioned fully in the plans (well, for the most part). Generally individual pieces such as the capstrips and uprights in the ribs are made with a common sized material, such as 1/4" thick and 1/2" wide. Then the only thing you need to find is the length, which should be shown somewhere on the plans. For pieces like wing ribs, the plans include a full size template for the ribs. They also give the coordinates for laying out the ribs full size yourself. If you want to use the paper template, first make some measurements to see how true it is. The distance between the spars should be 27-3/4". If it measures within 1/16" of that, go ahead and use the template (that's what I did). If it varies more than that you should probably lay it out from the coordinates. Once you have the outline of the rib laid out, you can position small blocks of wood to hold the capstrip to that shape, and build a jig so that each of the 30 ribs are identical. One thing you should understand in building a wooden airplane is that about 90% of the strength of a wooden joint comes from the plywood gusset that covers the joint. If you notice when looking at the plans, every single joint in the airplane is covered with plywood. The plywood serves two purpose - it greatly increases the glue area and it provides most of the shear strength of the joint. A glued butt joint is not very strong - it relies completely on the glue in tension, which is not good. Putting a gusset on that joint changes the loading to shear loading (trying to slide the wood past the plywood gusset) and glue is very good at resisting shear. One thing any builder should do as they are building their structure is to build some test joints using the same materials and the same glue as they build the real structure. Then, once the glue has fully cured, break the test pieces by pulling on the wood in the same direction that flight loads will impose. Once the joint has broken, examine it to be sure that the wood actually broke, not the glue joint. That is the mark of a well made glue joint. Look at the pictures Chris Tracy has put on his West Coast Piet website. I'm sure you can find a few that will show the jigs used for the various components. Virtually no part of an airplane is made without some sort of jig to hold the pieces accurately. Building an airplane is really a series of one alignment problem after another. Sometimes it takes great ingenuity to figure out how to hold the various pieces in alignment. Hang in there and never refrain from asking questions if you don't know how to proceed. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BritishJim Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 9:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Books for an idiot? --> Greetings! Looking to start my build ASAP. But there is just one problem.... ....I've no darn idea how to build from wood and plans! Are there any books covering the plans and wood building process geared for total newbies? My main concern is how I translate plans that are not full-sized into full-scale components. I hear great things about the Bingelis books, but I am not sure if they cover the plans-building process from scratch? Any suggestions of resources would be greatly appreciated. I'm a fast learner - but up until this point in life have been too ignorant of building and far too concentrated on the actual flying bit! Many thanks, Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440631#440631 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:43 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Some workshop ideas...... From: "aerocarjake" Great set of drawers - nice dovetails....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440692#440692 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.