---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/28/15: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:17 AM - Re: New to the list (Jack) 2. 05:55 AM - welcome Semih (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 05:56 AM - Ford coolant fittings (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 06:37 AM - Re: New to the list (AircamperN11MS) 5. 08:23 AM - Re: New to the list (oldbird) 6. 08:24 AM - Re: New to the list (taildrags) 7. 08:34 AM - Re: New to the list (oldbird) 8. 08:44 AM - Re: New to the list (tools) 9. 09:21 AM - Re: New to the list (oldbird) 10. 10:08 AM - Re: New to the list (Jack Philips) 11. 10:21 AM - Re: New to the list (oldbird) 12. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: New to the list (Steven D. Dortch) 13. 11:50 AM - Re: New to the list (taildrags) 14. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Who Would Like To Get A Huge Boost In Their Build? (Tony Crawford) 15. 07:23 PM - minimum turnback altitude (Douwe Blumberg) 16. 07:36 PM - Re: minimum turnback altitude (Jeff Boatright) 17. 09:03 PM - Re: minimum turnback altitude (Steven Dortch) 18. 09:12 PM - Re: minimum turnback altitude (tools) 19. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: minimum turnback altitude (Steven Dortch) 20. 11:10 PM - Re: Re: minimum turnback altitude (Steven Dortch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the list From: Jack Semih welcome to the group! Everyone of your pictures detail your expert craftsmanship. I look forward to following your progress. Take care! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Apr 28, 2015, at 1:44 AM, "oldbird" wrote: > > > Hi Pietenpeople > > I am the (very) newbie. My name is Semih Oksay and I live in Istanbul, Turkey.I fell in love with flying machines more then 60 years ago when I was 5. They are still one of my two loves, the other being my wife. > > Altough I am new to the list, I started building a Pietenpol six years ago. You can follow my progress from the following link: > > http://www.mykitlog.com/oldbird > > Before asking questions, I started reading through the previous posts, succeded to red 12 0ut of 170 pages of headings. > I will carry on for a while before I dare to take your valuable times. > > I am a mechanical engineer. I am trying to build as close to the plans as possible. Materialwise, it is another story. > There is no shop in Turkey which sells aircraft parts, or spruce selected and cut to aero specification, so we few here have to learn selecting our own wood (not necessarily spruce all the time) and test it. It is a learning process. > For other materials, 4130 plate is not available so I am trying to substitute AISI 304 for metal fittings. > > I am the tech.mgr. of a fatory dealing with stainless steels so AISI 304 is readily available to me. We also have laser cutting and CNC bending facilities and a full machine shop in house. So it is a strange combination of high technical > facility versus serious shortage of materials and parts. > > Engine will be a Continental A65-8 from my university years. The engine is probably older than I am. After 40+ years of storage, I took it out and it looks pretty clean. Of course, before seriously using it, I have to run further checks > and inspections, which I have yet to learn how. > > Thank you all again for sharing your knowledge, experience and thoughts. > > Happy landings > Semih Oksay (oldbird) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441427#441427 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:17 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: welcome Semih Hello and welcome Semih! Congratulations on your progress, I applaud your perseverance in facing the materials challenges there!! Please keep us updated with your progress and feel free to ask questions. Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:01 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford coolant fittings Hey Dan, Just an idea which you may have already done about your coolant fittings. If you haven't already done it, you could run a little weld bead around the ends of the tubs and grind them smooth so they form a little "lip" for the hose clamps to hold against. Gives a bit of a mechanical connection to an otherwise strictly friction fit. Or you could have someone with the right tool bead the edge. We don't like "popping" sounds when we're flying! Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "AircamperN11MS" Hello Semih, Welcome to the world of Pietenpols. Your project looks very nice. Your story makes me fell very lucky to have all the building resources we could ever want here in the USA. Your story makes me wonder about your freedoms to fly in your country. Do you have plenty of airfields to fly from? Are you free to fly without flight plans or other restrictions? I am only curious since it is probably too far away for me to fly over there in my Piet. Welcome again and feel free to ask any and all questions. Someone on the list will have an answer to most any question you can think of. I sure enjoyed looking at your pictures. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441441#441441 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "oldbird" Hi Jack and Scott first, let me thank you for your very nice and encouraging comments and warm welcome. To answer Scott's questions about flying in Turkey, first of all there was no law-rule-regulation recognizing homebuilt aircraft as "homebuilt". A regulation under civil aviation law was released a couple of months ago for regulating homebuilt aircraft. Far from being adequate but still a beginning (a bit late eh?). We are actually a small group of maybe 40 people trying to do what Paul did in 1953 founding EAA. We have a club named Experimental Aviation Society (maybe association) and actively working to help/persuade government authorities to make things as they shoud be (in our and rest of the world's opinion). This includes translating, adapting regulations from FAA, EAA, BGA etc. As for flying, my city, Istanbul is quite unlucky in terms of flying fields. We are also in search of suitable fields, including grass areas/strips and abandoned runways and ex-military airports close to Istanbul - maybe about an hour's drive. We do not have any pre-defined air spaces ie. class A, class B etc. This also is another problem. Last but not least, we still have an unproportional taxing system for aircraft. This includes LSA. We are trying to have the authorities to exclude homebuilts from tax and establish another class of pilot's lisence similar to your sport pilot license (SPL). English is not my mother tongue and please forgive me if I couldn't make myself clear. If you have any further questions please go ahead. regards and happy landings Semih Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441449#441449 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "taildrags" Semih; my wife and I will be in Istanbul for a couple of days in October. This will be our 4th time to visit Turkey and we always enjoy the people, the cuisine, the country. Although I probably can't take you any spruce or 4130 from the USA, it would be great to meet you and perhaps also see your project! Perhaps some ay-? Welcome to the list. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441450#441450 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:20 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "oldbird" You are more than welcome Oscar. My wife also is bilingual so although she is not home yet, she will also be thrilled when she hears this. ay or anythig else. Looking forward Semih Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441452#441452 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "tools" Merhaba! Bravo on your, well, looks like more than a project, endeavor. Can't imaging having to make a aviation system the same time as an airplane. Sort of makes you a combination of both Paul and Bernard. Based on you kit log, I'm guessing you'll be answering more questions than asking, but nonetheless, I wouldn't worry about daring to take our valuable time. Ask away if necessary, but more importantly keep telling us about this amazing grassroots effort to start up a light civil home building and flying system over there. I'm hoping Terry Hand will chime in, he's an airline captain flying internationally on equipment I know used to fly to Istanbul although I don't know if he's senior enough to get those trips. He has on numerous occasions visited with pietenpol builders in England. I'm sure he'd love to catch up with you! He's been to Istanbul and loves the city. I've only had one overnight there and loved what I saw in that short time. I've got more time in Ankara, where I was born, to Americans in the military on overseas assignment, but left at the age of one. Very best of luck to you, let us know if we can be any help,at all! Mike Danford Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441454#441454 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "oldbird" Merhaba Mike again thank you very much for what I have read. All of it. Wood: I have my own carpentry shop in the factory I work for. I also have a friend (somewhat younger) who has a furniture and decoration stuff manufacturing plant with high precision woodworking machinery. If you pay a reasonable amount, any carpenter shop can saw wood for you here. In short, there is no problem with technical ability. The problem was the material itself. By the way, I will not be using solid spars. I will use box spars with 25x25mm (approx 1"x1") caps with 3mm (slightly thinner than 1/8") webs. I made the strength calculations and they prove to be adequate. The question was not to be more sophisticated. It was that I couldn't find correct spruce long enough. If anyone needs dimensions, I have the CAD drawing of the whole thing (by my humbleself) and I will be happy to share it. Syberian pine is slightly heavier and stronger than Sitka. Since the webs will be Okume ply (marine) I am hoping for reasonable weights. As you may have seen from my Kitlog page, I occassionally weigh my stuff and post it, in case someone is interested in weights. The ring count is much more than what MIL specifies for aircraft spruce, which was, if my memory doesn't deceive me, about 6-7 rings per inch. In my case, with Syberian pine, and also the local spruce I use, it is roughly 20. Happy landings Semih Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441458#441458 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:29 AM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New to the list Welcome, Semih! It's always amazing to me to see the ingenuity of people in other parts of the world adapting their materials to aircraft construction. The Pietenpol design of course lends itself well to changes in material. I'm also a mechanical engineer, and I found my engineering knowledge very helpful in building my own Pietenpol. Please let us know if we can help by buying hardware or items here that we can ship to you. Is there any chance you can make it Brodhead and Oshkosh some summer? One trip to Oshkosh can pretty well supply you with everything you need to finish your airplane. Best of luck to you! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of oldbird Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 2:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list Hi Pietenpeople I am the (very) newbie. My name is Semih Oksay and I live in Istanbul, Turkey.I fell in love with flying machines more then 60 years ago when I was 5. They are still one of my two loves, the other being my wife. Altough I am new to the list, I started building a Pietenpol six years ago. You can follow my progress from the following link: http://www.mykitlog.com/oldbird Before asking questions, I started reading through the previous posts, succeded to red 12 0ut of 170 pages of headings. I will carry on for a while before I dare to take your valuable times. I am a mechanical engineer. I am trying to build as close to the plans as possible. Materialwise, it is another story. There is no shop in Turkey which sells aircraft parts, or spruce selected and cut to aero specification, so we few here have to learn selecting our own wood (not necessarily spruce all the time) and test it. It is a learning process. For other materials, 4130 plate is not available so I am trying to substitute AISI 304 for metal fittings. I am the tech.mgr. of a fatory dealing with stainless steels so AISI 304 is readily available to me. We also have laser cutting and CNC bending facilities and a full machine shop in house. So it is a strange combination of high technical facility versus serious shortage of materials and parts. Engine will be a Continental A65-8 from my university years. The engine is probably older than I am. After 40+ years of storage, I took it out and it looks pretty clean. Of course, before seriously using it, I have to run further checks and inspections, which I have yet to learn how. Thank you all again for sharing your knowledge, experience and thoughts. Happy landings Semih Oksay (oldbird) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441427#441427 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "oldbird" Can you please post where you are located? My son and granddaughters are living in Orlando, Fl. Another close relative, with granddaughter lives in Queens, NY. We visit them once in a while. If I have the chance, I would love to visit you guys if I have the opportunity. Happy landings Semih Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441463#441463 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "Steven D. Dortch" T3NjYXIsIGp1c3QgYSBnb29kIGlkZWEgZmFpcnksIHRha2Ugc29tZSBzbWFsbCBwaWVjZXMgb2Yg c3BydWNlIGp1c3QgdG8gY29tcGFyZSB0byB0aGUgd29vZCBoZSBpcyB1c2luZy4KCmJsdWUgc2tp ZXMsClN0ZXZlIEQuCgoKCgoKU2VudCBmcm9tIFNhbXN1bmcgdGFibGV0dGFpbGRyYWdzIDx0YWls ZHJhZ3NAaG90bWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOi0tPiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3Rl ZCBieTogInRhaWxkcmFncyIgPHRhaWxkcmFnc0Bob3RtYWlsLmNvbT4KClNlbWloOyBteSB3aWZl IGFuZCBJIHdpbGwgYmUgaW4gSXN0YW5idWwgZm9yIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIGRheXMgaW4gT2N0b2Jl ci7CoCBUaGlzIHdpbGwgYmUgb3VyIDR0aCB0aW1lIHRvIHZpc2l0IFR1cmtleSBhbmQgd2UgYWx3 YXlzIGVuam95IHRoZSBwZW9wbGUsIHRoZSBjdWlzaW5lLCB0aGUgY291bnRyeS7CoCBBbHRob3Vn aCBJIHByb2JhYmx5IGNhbid0IHRha2UgeW91IGFueSBzcHJ1Y2Ugb3IgNDEzMCBmcm9tIHRoZSBV U0EsIGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGdyZWF0IHRvIG1lZXQgeW91IGFuZCBwZXJoYXBzIGFsc28gc2VlIHlv dXIgcHJvamVjdCHCoCBQZXJoYXBzIHNvbWUgw4PCp2F5LT8KCldlbGNvbWUgdG8gdGhlIGxpc3Qu CgotLS0tLS0tLQpPc2NhciBadW5pZ2EKTWVkZm9yZCwgT1IKQWlyIENhbXBlciBOWDQxQ0MgJnF1 b3Q7U2NvdXQmcXVvdDsKQTc1IHBvd2VyCgoKCgpSZWFkIHRoaXMgdG9waWMgb25saW5lIGhlcmU6 CgpodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vdmlld3RvcGljLnBocD9wPTQ0MTQ1MCM0NDE0 NTAKCgoKCgoKCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAtIFRoZSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlz dCBFbWFpbCBGb3J1bSAtCl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5hdmln YXRvciB0byBicm93c2UKXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBV bi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sCl8tPSBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJjaCAmIERvd25sb2FkLCA3LURheSBCcm93 c2UsIENoYXQsIEZBUSwKXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNoIG11Y2ggbW9yZToKXy09Cl8t PcKgwqAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UGlldGVucG9sLUxp c3QKXy09Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1Mg V0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtCl8tPSBTYW1lIGdyZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRo ZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQpfLT0KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29t Cl8tPQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PQpfLT3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgLSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlv biBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtCl8tPcKgIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQpf LT3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRy b25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbgpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQoKCgo ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list From: "taildrags" That's a good idea, Steve. I have plenty of spruce cutoffs and it might be of interest to have samples to at least do glue tests with. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441467#441467 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Who Would Like To Get A Huge Boost In Their Build? From: Tony Crawford Hi Terry, Have you had a chance to work something out with Skip? At one time you had said visiting you and your PIET. Where are you located. This might be an option to meet with you and Skip. Let me know if you have any ideas or thoughts on this. Only one problem, For me to meet you and Skip it would have to be a Friday afternoon or Saturday or Sunday. Thank You. Tony Tony Crawford 480-748-3470 On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:25 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> > > I am glad it all worked out for every one! > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440023#440023 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:47 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: minimum turnback altitude Okay good people, Here's a tricky one. Has anyone experimented with how much altitude is needed to turn a piet 180 degrees? What I'm asking is what is the minimum height, AGL that one would feel comfortable turning back to the airport on climbout rather than just "controlling the crash" straight ahead. I've never tried it at altitude, but I'm curious. Also, what is the best technique for this? Douwe ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: minimum turnback altitude From: "Jeff Boatright" Hi Douwe, Boy, that's a tough on, IMO. Probably will differ with each airplane, pilot, and circumstance. A lot of effort went into this analysis of that very question: http://jeremy.zawodny.com/flying/turnback.pdf I have no idea how relevant it is to Piets, though. HTH, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441480#441480 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: minimum turnback altitude From: Steven Dortch Douwe, from the beachcraft list discussion on turning back to a runway. It is not a 180 but more of a 270 Plus. In other words you do a left turn out, then continue turning until you are back in line with the runway and a right turn to line up with the runway. Read the article "should you turn back? Or the possible 'impossible' turn' " by Dave Rogers, PHD. It really discusses this turn in depth. Blue skies Steve D On Apr 28, 2015 9:25 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > Okay good people, > > > Here=99s a tricky one. Has anyone experimented with how much alt itude is > needed to turn a piet 180 degrees? What I=99m asking is what is t he minimum > height, AGL that one would feel comfortable turning back to the airport o n > climbout rather than just =9Ccontrolling the crash=9D straigh t ahead. > > > I=99ve never tried it at altitude, but I=99m curious. > > > Also, what is the best technique for this? > > > Douwe > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:49 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: minimum turnback altitude From: "tools" This is EXTREMELY valuable to talk about. I have no clue. I can say as a kerosene burner that I fly very low power on approaches for a Piet. It has something to do with 8000 plus hours looking at 3 degree glide paths at about 150 mph. I'm trying to recover... However, I can say with pride nearly all my approaches are 3 degrees plus one minus a tenth of a degree without an electronic or visual glide path indicator. Geesh. My second ride ever in a Piet was with Axel. He turned base and I thought there was no way on earth we were EVER going to make the field. Which of course we did, easily. I couldn't believe it. I thought we were high by several orders of magnitude... So here's my take on technique anyway. If you turn with anything less than cruise power, you have to STUFF the nose until you're wings level. Not ease her down, not lower it a bit... STUFF it. It's going to feel unnatural, it's going to KILL a lot of altitude, you're going to be staring at a lot of terra firma. The only reason to slip a Piet is for visibility, not because it won't come down! The best engine failure scenario is a total failure. It's CLEAR you've got a very serious problem. "Loss of power" scenarios are insidious. How can you determine how much you've lost? It's a Piet, we rely on vibration, noise and wind blast, which can all increase while our power decreases. On a half million pound jet, I ONLY rely on my engine instruments to determine engine performance because my engines are very far away and I can't hear or feel them at all. Not so in a Piet. I'm pretty certain more folks are hurt in power loss cases due to stalling rather than hitting something while maintaining a controllable speed. Keep your speed up and make sure the nose of the plane doesn't hit a tree trunk and a wing does... You can only do that if you have enough speed. Otherwise it's up,to Newton to decide what you hit, not you. This is not a trivial decision to make if you're thinking about the ten years to make the plane you're about to total... Especially if you're thinking you've engine is merely running bad rather than realizing you've lost more power than you really have. I hope a lot of folks chime in on this one. I don't know a single light civil pilot with thousands of hours who haven't lost an engine. I don't know more than a few kerosene burners who have, and they all just ejected... Again not trivial, but not that hard of a decision! Given I only have about 150 light civil hours I assume my turn is still coming, and that scares me, which is fine because it keeps me striving to learn from others as much as I can. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441482#441482 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: minimum turnback altitude From: Steven Dortch Jeff, the article I referenced is by the same team. The one I referenced has much less math. Both articles discuss the best technique to perform the 180 degree turn back. The most efficient technique is to do a 45 degree turn just above stall speed. On completion of the turn, a dive to best glide speed was performed. However, this technique introduces a high probability of a stall spin. A 30 degree turn just above stall speed was not as tight and efficient but virtually eliminated stall spin incidences. I practiced at altitude in my old Cessna 150 and in my Vtail a couple of times. You do get much better with practice. Blue skies, Steve D. On Apr 28, 2015 9:38 PM, "Jeff Boatright" wrote: > jeffboatright@emory.edu> > > Hi Douwe, > > Boy, that's a tough on, IMO. Probably will differ with each airplane, > pilot, and circumstance. > > A lot of effort went into this analysis of that very question: > > http://jeremy.zawodny.com/flying/turnback.pdf > > I have no idea how relevant it is to Piets, though. > > HTH, > > Jeff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441480#441480 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:36 PM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: minimum turnback altitude the article http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/impossible/possible.html the series http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Jeff, the article I referenced is by the same team. The one I referenced > has much less math. > Both articles discuss the best technique to perform the 180 degree turn > back. > The most efficient technique is to do a 45 degree turn just above stall > speed. On completion of the turn, a dive to best glide speed was > performed. However, this technique introduces a high probability of a stall > spin. A 30 degree turn just above stall speed was not as tight and > efficient but virtually eliminated stall spin incidences. > > I practiced at altitude in my old Cessna 150 and in my Vtail a couple of > times. You do get much better with practice. > > Blue skies, > Steve D. > On Apr 28, 2015 9:38 PM, "Jeff Boatright" wrote: > >> jeffboatright@emory.edu> >> >> Hi Douwe, >> >> Boy, that's a tough on, IMO. Probably will differ with each airplane, >> pilot, and circumstance. >> >> A lot of effort went into this analysis of that very question: >> >> http://jeremy.zawodny.com/flying/turnback.pdf >> >> I have no idea how relevant it is to Piets, though. >> >> HTH, >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441480#441480 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- Blue Skies, Steve D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.