Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:13 AM - turnback and vortelator tape (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: turnback and vortelator tape (Steven Dortch)
3. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: minimum turnback altitude (Jack)
4. 06:18 AM - Re: Re: minimum turnback altitude (Gary Boothe)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: minimum turnback altitude (AircamperN11MS)
6. 07:02 PM - Re: minimum turnback altitude (dgaldrich)
7. 09:46 PM - Re: minimum turnback altitude (taildrags)
Message 1
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| Subject: | turnback and vortelator tape |
The "leading edge tape" I mentioned is called vortelator tape. It's been
discussed a few times here. You put it on the high point of the prop camber
and it supposedly reduces drag a bit allowing some extra rpms, or a slightly
lower power setting for the same rpms. take your pick. Bill Rewey did an
article about his and I think he saw a 50rpm static increase. I figured
that was truthful so I put some on mine. I have a little electronic tach
and it's hard to read small differences like that, but I'm pretty sure I saw
about a 30rpm increase. I did for sure notice the prop was quieter. She
flies fine without it, so I'm not sure if I'll do it again, but I figure
every little bit helps. You can get it from ACS, I think they sell a
"ultralight/homebuilt" kit for prop vortelator tape. It's like 30 bucks to
do a prop. Mine stayed on fine with the adhesive backing, but Bill put a
fine line of crazy glue around the edges and had it on for years. He ran it
the whole length of the prop, the ACS kit says just the inner 10-12" or so
which is what I did. I think it's like VG's. it makes a small improvement,
but if it's enough is a personal decision. I mainly appreciated the quieter
prop.
RE turnback altitude. I'm really appreciating all the helpful input. I
completely understand that if an engine konks on takeoff, get the nose down
and fine a place to "land" straight ahead or thereabouts. However, as
you're climbing and gaining altitude, there certainly comes altitudes at
which one has more options, including getting it back on the runway and
that's what I'm curious about. Is that 500', 700', 1,000'? I have no idea.
I think I'll go out and try it over a road at altitude and see what happens.
Sounds like something we should all practice while we can.
Douwe
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: turnback and vortelator tape |
A couple of months ago I saw discussion of a group in California who
practices dead engine landings in a desert dry lake bed. That way they
climb to different altitudes and kill the engine and see how far they can
turn back safely. they do it once or twice a year from what I read.
Sounds interesting and like a fun weekend.
Blue skies
Steve D
On Apr 30, 2015 7:15 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe@douwestudios.com> wrote:
> The =9Cleading edge tape=9D I mentioned is called vortelator
tape. It=99s been
> discussed a few times here. You put it on the high point of the prop
> camber and it supposedly reduces drag a bit allowing some extra rpms, or
a
> slightly lower power setting for the same rpms take your pick.
Bill Rewey
> did an article about his and I think he saw a 50rpm static increase. I
> figured that was truthful so I put some on mine. I have a little
> electronic tach and it=99s hard to read small differences like that
, but I=99m
> pretty sure I saw about a 30rpm increase. I did for sure notice the prop
> was quieter. She flies fine without it, so I=99m not sure if I
=99ll do it
> again, but I figure every little bit helps. You can get it from ACS, I
> think they sell a =9Cultralight/homebuilt=9D kit for prop vor
telator tape.
> It=99s like 30 bucks to do a prop. Mine stayed on fine with the adh
esive
> backing, but Bill put a fine line of crazy glue around the edges and had
it
> on for years. He ran it the whole length of the prop, the ACS kit says
> just the inner 10-12=9D or so which is what I did. I think it
=99s like VG=99s
> it makes a small improvement, but if it=99s enough is a personal de
cision. I
> mainly appreciated the quieter prop.
>
>
> RE turnback altitude. I=99m really appreciating all the helpful in
put. I
> completely understand that if an engine konks on takeoff, get the nose do
wn
> and fine a place to =9Cland=9D straight ahead or thereabouts.
However, as
> you=99re climbing and gaining altitude, there certainly comes altit
udes at
> which one has more options, including getting it back on the runway and
> that=99s what I=99m curious about. Is that 500=99, 700
=99, 1,000=99? I have no
> idea. I think I=99ll go out and try it over a road at altitude and
see what
> happens. Sounds like something we should all practice while we can.
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
> *
>
===========
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: minimum turnback altitude |
Great video Scott! Thanks for sharing. Scott's segment starts at 16:47.
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Apr 29, 2015, at 8:50 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
>
>
> Here is a link to the video I mention.
>
> http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1381694259
>
> Cheers,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441494#441494
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: minimum turnback altitude |
...and not nearly long enough!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: minimum turnback altitude
Great video Scott! Thanks for sharing. Scott's segment starts at 16:47.
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Apr 29, 2015, at 8:50 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
wrote:
>
> --> <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Here is a link to the video I mention.
>
> http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1381694259
>
> Cheers,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441494#441494
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: minimum turnback altitude |
Yes it is a good flick. Even though it is about 20 years old, it still applies.
I was asked if I would consider shutting the engine off for the shoot. I said
no thank you. As it was, I almost need to add throttle to arrest the sink rate.
In the end, it was a power off landing.
I haven't seen the video in about 15 years. It was good to see it again.
Happy landings everyone,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441542#441542
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: minimum turnback altitude |
A couple of things...
1. Kevin Purtee wrote an interesting aftermath report on his accident departing
Brodhead. One of the things he mentioned was that he didn't push the nose over
any where near far enough to avoid loss of airspeed and the resulting spin/stall.
Also touches on the partial power failure topic tools brought up. Worth
rereading. Aug 6, 2012 post.
2. Doing a 30 degree bank left 270/right 90 to get back to the runway will take
approximately 30 seconds at 60 mph. If your power off sink rate at 60 is 1500
fpm, you're gonna need 750 ft AGL if you do everything perfectly.
3. Years ago, I lost an engine in a 152 and landed straight ahead without a problem.
It was a 12,000 ft runway so I could have climbed to 1,000 ft and still
landed straight ahead on concrete. The moral is intersection takeoffs leave
a lot of options behind you.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441564#441564
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: minimum turnback altitude |
Interestingly, AOPA feature writer Barry Schiff wrote a piece on "The Impossible
Turn" a few years ago in AOPA Pilot magazine and gave it a lot of credibility
with the caveat that it requires regular practice. You can find a summary of
the maneuver, and how to practice it, here:
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2011/May/19/Impossible-turn-Practice-makes-possible
In real life, KR builder and pilot Mark Langford has practiced this maneuver till
it has become almost second nature to him. He has had to use it several times,
successfully, without loss of life or airplane. If one has a familiar airplane,
plenty of time, and an uncontrolled (preferably remote) airport at which
to practice the maneuver, it is a highly recommended exercise and will also
improve other flying skills. I need to do this myself!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441567#441567
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