Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:09 AM - 4-blade test (danhelsper@aol.com)
2. 04:34 AM - Re: 4-blade test (jarheadpilot82)
3. 08:28 AM - Re: 4-blade test (Jack)
4. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: 4-blade test (danhelsper@aol.com)
5. 10:56 AM - Re: 4-blade test (danhelsper@aol.com)
6. 11:16 AM - Re: 4-blade test (Jack)
7. 04:53 PM - A day early (Ken Bickers)
8. 05:03 PM - Re: A day early (Gary Boothe)
9. 05:23 PM - Caution - Rudder Bar Failure (Jack Philips)
10. 05:25 PM - Re: A day early (Jack Philips)
11. 06:24 PM - Re: A day early (danhelsper@aol.com)
12. 06:49 PM - Re: Caution - Rudder Bar Failure (tools)
13. 06:56 PM - Re: A day early (Bill Church)
14. 08:13 PM - Re: A day early (wheelharp)
15. 08:25 PM - Re: A day early (Ray Krause)
16. 08:56 PM - Re: A day early (Jim Boyer)
Message 1
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Well,
At long last I have test run the 4-bladed prop, two years after the initial test.
As you might recall I cut 1-1/2" off the blades and thinned them down as much
as possible. The results from two years ago:
220 Fish Scale Lbs, @ 1600 RPM
Results last evening:
238 Fish Scale Lbs. @ 1800 RPM
I am declaring success, and will test fly this evening during the Don Emch "Golden
Hour".
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 4-blade test |
Dan,
How much does this 4-bladed prop weigh? How much does your 2-bladed prop weigh?
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441664#441664
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 4-blade test |
Dan,
The prop looks great.
Any progress on the temp problem?
Jack
Sent from my iPad
> On May 4, 2015, at 6:08 AM, danhelsper@aol.com wrote:
>
> Well,
>
> At long last I have test run the 4-bladed prop, two years after the initia
l test. As you might recall I cut 1-1/2" off the blades and thinned them dow
n as much as possible. The results from two years ago:
>
> 220 Fish Scale Lbs, @ 1600 RPM
>
> Results last evening:
>
> 238 Fish Scale Lbs. @ 1800 RPM
>
> I am declaring success, and will test fly this evening during the Don Emch
"Golden Hour".
>
> Dan Helsper
> Loensloe Airfield
> Puryear, TN
> <4-blade test run 010.JPG>
> <4-blade test run 013.JPG>
> <4-blade test run 017.JPG>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 4-blade test |
Terry,
22 lbs and 11 lbs respectively.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, May 4, 2015 8:54 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 4-blade test
<jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
Dan,
How much does this 4-bladed prop weigh?
How much does your 2-bladed prop weigh?
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online
here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441664#441664
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 4-blade test |
Jack,
I have added one bottle of Red Line Water-Wetter, and one bottle of Lucas S
uper Coolant. I am really liking the temperature readings I am seeing. Yest
erday I flew the airplane over to our local EAA meeting. It was 90F here an
d the water temp was staying 200 or less. This is a real improvement from w
hat I saw last summer. I will keep you posted as ambient temps elevate.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack <fastnaught@windstream.net>
Sent: Mon, May 4, 2015 10:28 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4-blade test
Dan,
The prop looks great.
Any progress on the temp problem?
Jack
Sent from my iPad
On May 4, 2015, at 6:08 AM, danhelsper@aol.com wrote:
Well,
At long last I have test run the 4-bladed prop, two years after the initial
test. As you might recall I cut 1-1/2" off the blades and thinned them dow
n as much as possible. The results from two years ago:
220 Fish Scale Lbs, @ 1600 RPM
Results last evening:
238 Fish Scale Lbs. @ 1800 RPM
I am declaring success, and will test fly this evening during the Don Emch
"Golden Hour".
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
<4-blade test run 010.JPG>
<4-blade test run 013.JPG>
<4-blade test run 017.JPG>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 4-blade test |
Good news on the temp.
I'd like to open the discussion on flying to Brodhead this year. I want to d
o that at least once. If I head west I'm hoping to join up with some Pieters
near Atlanta. Then fly north to your area and spend the night. Then with yo
u in the group (if you are planning to fly) off the Brodhead. Then reverse t
he plan when it's over. If that would acceptable to you we'll need an airpor
t close to you or where you have your airplane. And a recommendation for a p
lace to spend the night. These are just my ideas so far and would like any i
nput from you or others to modify the plan. Any other ideas on what to bring
or how to get there would be great. Do you know of any others that might be
flying to include?
Thanks,
Jack
Sent from my iPad
> On May 4, 2015, at 12:55 PM, danhelsper@aol.com wrote:
>
> Jack,
>
> I have added one bottle of Red Line Water-Wetter, and one bottle of Lucas S
uper Coolant. I am really liking the temperature readings I am seeing. Yeste
rday I flew the airplane over to our local EAA meeting. It was 90F here and t
he water temp was staying 200 or less. This is a real improvement from what I
saw last summer. I will keep you posted as ambient temps elevate.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Loensloe Airfield
> Puryear, TN
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack <fastnaught@windstream.net>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, May 4, 2015 10:28 am
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4-blade test
>
> Dan,
> The prop looks great.
> Any progress on the temp problem?
> Jack
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 4, 2015, at 6:08 AM, danhelsper@aol.com wrote:
>
> Well,
>
> At long last I have test run the 4-bladed prop, two years after the initia
l test. As you might recall I cut 1-1/2" off the blades and thinned them dow
n as much as possible. The results from two years ago:
>
> 220 Fish Scale Lbs, @ 1600 RPM
>
> Results last evening:
>
> 238 Fish Scale Lbs. @ 1800 RPM
>
> I am declaring success, and will test fly this evening during the Don Emch
"Golden Hour".
>
> Dan Helsper
> Loensloe Airfield
> Puryear, TN
> <4-blade test run 010.JPG>
> <4-blade test run 013.JPG>
> <4-blade test run 017.JPG>
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=ut
:blank" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Li3D=
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>
>
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>
Message 7
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Folks,
For years, I've told people that I expected to finish building my Pietenpol
on Tuesday. I was wrong. I finished a day early.
After a mere 20 years and 2 months (most of it spent with no progress being
made), today I received an Airworthiness Certificate on NX313KB.
The lesson here is to keep plugging away. Eventually there will be no more
items on the to-do list.
Attached is a picture.
Taxi testing to commence later this week.
Cheers, Ken
Message 8
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What a great day, Ken!...and she=99s a beauty!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Bickers
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 4:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A day early
Folks,
For years, I've told people that I expected to finish building my
Pietenpol on Tuesday. I was wrong. I finished a day early.
After a mere 20 years and 2 months (most of it spent with no progress
being made), today I received an Airworthiness Certificate on NX313KB.
The lesson here is to keep plugging away. Eventually there will be no
more items on the to-do list.
Attached is a picture.
Taxi testing to commence later this week.
Cheers, Ken
Message 9
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| Subject: | Caution - Rudder Bar Failure |
This email is primarily being sent to advise all Pietenpol builders of a
potential problem. Hopefully I=92m the only one that this has or will
happen
to, but I thought the Pietenpol community at large should be aware of
it.
Saturday, my wife and I flew from our home at Smith Mountain Lake,
Virginia
to Roxboro, NC to attend the annual Antique Fly-In of VAA Chapter 3, the
Carolinas Virginia Antique Airplane Foundation. As I turned final for
runway 06, with a slight crosswind from the left (wind was 010=B0 at 5
knots),
I noticed the rudder suddenly felt =93loose=94, although when I tried
rudder
inputs, it still worked. Karen commented on the intercom that she heard
a
=93clunk=94. I landed the airplane (made a good landing, for once), and
then as
we slowed below rudder effectiveness speed, all Hell broke loose. A
slight
gust of wind hit from the left and the plane immediately turned left and
headed for the weeds. Tailwheel steering was completely gone. I got on
the
brakes and got it straightened out, but it was the closest I=92ve come
to
ground-looping in a long time. As we taxied to the flight line I looked
back over my shoulder and verified the rudder moved correctly with input
from my feet, although it felt funny. Tailwheel steering still didn=92t
work
at all, so I continued to steer with brakes and we got it to our place
on
the flight line and shut it down.
Once parked, I looked back at the rudder and the cables were slack '
no
tension at all. The rudder was banging back and forth in the breeze.
As
soon as Karen got out of the front cockpit I removed the front seat to
see
what was going on. What I found was that the rudder bar pivot, the bolt
with its head welded to the underside of the rudder bar mounting
bracket,
had broken completely off. The only thing holding the rudder bar at
anything like the correct position was the single diagonal brace. No
wonder
the rudder felt a bit strange!
Assessing my options, I finally decided the only way to fix it and get
back
home was to remove the bracket, drill out the welded bolt head and
insert a
new bolt. I built this system exactly according to the plans, except
for
the use of 4130 chrome moly steel and I welded the bolt head to the
bracket
instead of brazing it as the plans show (I had read that brazing 4130
was
not recommended). The bolt broke right at the point where the shank met
the
head and the crack was completely within the bracket so it was
undetectable.
I had just completed the annual condition inspection on the airplane two
weeks ago and as part of the inspection I had inspected and assured the
security of the rudder bar (as well as I could). This failure was
completely hidden, and I don=92t know how it could have been detected,
other
than X-Ray inspection.
To remove the bracket I had to cut a couple of holes in the fabric on
the
belly of the airplane, because when I built it I was not smart enough to
install nutplates for all the bolts that penetrate the floorboard. Even
worse, I had used castellated nuts with cotter pins, which made it
especially difficult to remove the nuts so I could repair the bracket.
Once the bracket was free we examined the failure. Apparently the heat
from
the welding caused a small crack to form in the shank of the bolt
adjacent
to the head. Over the last 10 years and 317 hours of flying, the forces
on
the rudder bar were sufficient to cause that crack to grow, to the point
that it ruptured completely Saturday. The fractured bolt is shown
below:
Note the smooth almost polished appearance of the fracture.
Here is an excerpt from the plans, showing the area in question:
Of course, if you have to have a problem with your Pietenpol while away
from
home, it sure is nice to be at a fly-in like Brodhead or Oshkosh, or a
Vintage Airplane fly-in. People were very helpful, particularly Jimmy
Dean
and Jim Wilson, and a young man whom I only know as =93Dusty=94. As
soon as I
got the bracket off, Dusty took it to his workshop and carefully
drilled,
then reamed a hole through the welded in bolt head and pressed a new
5/16=94
AN5 bolt in it. Jimmy Dean and I reinstalled the bracket and mounted
the
rudder bar. I patched the holes in the belly with Duct Tape and we were
back in business.
So what can I learn from this and pass on to my friends in the Pietenpol
community? First, understand that there are some parts of these
airplanes
that are very hard to inspect in a meaningful way. I had literally
inspected this part exactly two weeks before as part of the annual
condition
inspection, and detected nothing wrong with a part that was obviously
ready
to fail catastrophically. I did inspect the security of the cotter pin
in
the nut that secures the rudder bar to this bolt. I grabbed the rudder
bar
and wiggled it to see if everything was tight, and the diagonal brace
prevented any movement from alerting me to the failure. What more can
be
done in an inspection? I don=92t know and am open to suggestions.
What am I going to do with it now? I=92m going to make a new rudder bar
bracket, for one thing. I=92m not sure that brazing the bolt is the
answer,
so I think I=92m going to weld an extra thickness of 1/8=94 4130 in the
middle
of the bracket, then drill and ream an under sized hole and press fit
the
bolt in place. I=92m also going to add a second diagonal brace to
withstand
rudder bar forces better. Jimmy Dean said that the early Wacos had this
type of design and ended up adding a second brace to prevent failures.
I=92m
also going to install nutplates under the floorboard so it will be
easier to
remove and install the rudder bar bracket in the future. Then of course
I=92ve got to repair the holes I cut in the fabric.
If you are building a Pietenpol and have not yet made these parts, study
the
plans carefully and determine how you want to do it. As I said, other
than
using 4130 for the bracket and welding the bolt head rather than brazing
it,
I made it exactly to the plans. I certainly would NOT weld the bolt
head.
If you can braze, then braze it. As far as I know there has not been a
failure of a brazen bolt head, but then I haven=92t heard of any
failures of
welded ones until now. I do think two diagonal braces is better than
one
and should provide much better bracing.
Be careful up there,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Message 10
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Wow, Ken =93 Looks really nice! Congratulations, but if you think
you=99re happy now, just wait till you fly it!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Bickers
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2015 7:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A day early
Folks,
For years, I've told people that I expected to finish building my
Pietenpol on Tuesday. I was wrong. I finished a day early.
After a mere 20 years and 2 months (most of it spent with no progress
being made), today I received an Airworthiness Certificate on NX313KB.
The lesson here is to keep plugging away. Eventually there will be no
more items on the to-do list.
Attached is a picture.
Taxi testing to commence later this week.
Cheers, Ken
Message 11
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Ken, the utmost congratulations!!
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, May 4, 2015 6:55 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A day early
Folks,
For years, I've told people that I expected to finish building my Pietenpol on
Tuesday. I was wrong. I finished a day early.
After a mere 20 years and 2 months (most of it spent with no progress being made),
today I received an Airworthiness Certificate on NX313KB.
The lesson here is to keep plugging away. Eventually there will be no more items
on the to-do list.
Attached is a picture.
Taxi testing to commence later this week.
Cheers, Ken
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Caution - Rudder Bar Failure |
Oh great, our first AD...
Wow, sorry to hear it happened and glad it turned out how it did!
I think you hit the nail on the head, don't weld on the bolt. I don't see a reason
for hyper precise reaming and press fitting, just a good fit. I might also
consider a simple through bolt from the top.
I'm gonna go check mine tomorrow just to see how it's made. I agree there are
just some things that cannot be inspected.
Thanks for the heads up!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441719#441719
Message 13
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Way to go, Ken!
Very cool.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441720#441720
Message 14
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Oh wow...that is beautiful! Congratulations.
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441724#441724
Message 15
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WOW! Beautiful! Bet you can't wait to fly her!
Ray Krause
Building SkyScout
Sent from my iPad
> On May 4, 2015, at 4:52 PM, Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> For years, I've told people that I expected to finish building my Pietenpol on
Tuesday. I was wrong. I finished a day early.
>
> After a mere 20 years and 2 months (most of it spent with no progress being made),
today I received an Airworthiness Certificate on NX313KB.
>
> The lesson here is to keep plugging away. Eventually there will be no more items
on the to-do list.
>
> Attached is a picture.
>
> Taxi testing to commence later this week.
>
> Cheers, Ken
> <002 (3).JPG>
Message 16
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Beautiful Ken!!! Congratulations on a beautiful Piet.
Jim B.
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