Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:01 AM - Re: Aft CG (Flyboy)
2. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Aft CG (Barry Davis)
3. 08:35 AM - Re: NEED ADVICE!!!! (Baldeagle)
4. 09:08 AM - Re: Aft CG (David McBride)
5. 10:46 AM - very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
6. 11:12 AM - Re: very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear (Gary Boothe)
7. 03:47 PM - where are the new guys/gals?? (Douwe Blumberg)
8. 04:07 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (Gary Boothe)
9. 04:26 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (Jim Boyer)
10. 05:04 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (benjamin piet)
11. 05:19 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (David)
12. 06:14 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (John Weber)
13. 06:41 PM - ANYONE Need A Ride (tonyp51qa)
14. 07:28 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (Jeff Boatright)
15. 10:07 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (taildrags)
Message 1
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Gentlemen, I had the students post the cg comment. They do this under my name.
Thank you for all the responses. It is a great learning tool for them. What
I had them do is move the wing back and redo the front struts. We hope to weight
the plane again tomorrow. School year is coming to an end. We do calculate
full fuel and zero fuel. I do have a student 315 lbs. We know he is not able
to get in the Piet. He did stand on our Oratex fabric test panels and the test
was successful. Our continental 65 does have a leak on number 2 around the spark
plug insert. They make .03, .06, .09 oversize inserts. The compression was
74/80. That will be our next obstacle. Thank you again for all the comments.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442900#442900
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About the leak around the #2 insert..... the copper washer should seal all
leaks between the head and spark plug base, so if the insert was leaking, it
would be stopped by the washer. The seal is the copper washer, not the
insert. From past experience, a leak around the spark plug area means a bad
weld on a repaired cylinder or a crack radiating from the spark plug hole.
Just check this area carefully.
Barry Davis
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flyboy
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 8:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG
Gentlemen, I had the students post the cg comment. They do this under my
name. Thank you for all the responses. It is a great learning tool for
them. What I had them do is move the wing back and redo the front struts. We
hope to weight the plane again tomorrow. School year is coming to an end.
We do calculate full fuel and zero fuel. I do have a student 315 lbs. We
know he is not able to get in the Piet. He did stand on our Oratex fabric
test panels and the test was successful. Our continental 65 does have a leak
on number 2 around the spark plug insert. They make .03, .06, .09 oversize
inserts. The compression was 74/80. That will be our next obstacle. Thank
you again for all the comments.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442900#442900
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Subject: | Re: NEED ADVICE!!!! |
Definately go via Green Co. instead of via Fairmont, the terrain is much better,
and Green Co. has a good restaurant. And you can land on the grass on the south
side of the runway. And more choice of airports after Green Co.
Douwe, one advantage to O'Hare is that there is a bus service from Beloit to O'Hare,
and it will be easier to get a ride to Beloit (about 20 miles from Brodhead)
than to Madison or Milwaukee. They start as early as 3:45 AM:
http://www.coachusa.com/vangalder/ss.details.asp?action=Lookup&c1=South+Beloit&s1=IL&c2=Chicago+O%27Hare+Airport&s2=IL&resultId=9266&order=&dayFilter=&scheduleChoice=&sitePageName=&cbid=653912813332
--------
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442903#442903
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Awesome! Wish i had a class like this. Keep us posted on the updated W&B. CONGRATS!
Looks like alot of hard work done by many people.
--------
David McBride
Rochester, NY
dmcb84@hotmail.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442907#442907
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Subject: | very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear |
Just stumbled upon this cruising Facebook. Nice looking!
Mike C.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Posey-Brothers-Aviation/133631146705234
[cid:image001.jpg@01D09D3A.7E0A69A0]
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Subject: | very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear |
It's gonna be a monoplane.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 10:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear
Just stumbled upon this cruising Facebook. Nice looking!
Mike C.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Posey-Brothers-Aviation/133631146705234
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Subject: | where are the new guys/gals?? |
Hey all,
During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the
Pietenpol "marque" with some concern. I then looked through all my
newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently flying
fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties.
It got me to thinking, "what was happening during those years that
stimulated so much interest and building that isn't happening now?". Maybe
I'm wrong, but Just think of all the projects started around then and it is
quite remarkable. I'd love other's input, especially those who got into it
then, but I came to two different possibilities.
1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped
generate interest in the plane
2. People had more expendable resources and weren't lured away from a
"plans built plane" by "quick-build/snap together" kits.
3. All of the above?
I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask myself,
"where are the young people building" and with a few exceptions, there
aren't many. As always, the loss of the next generation bodes ill for the
future if we can't change things. Which led me to my next question (s)
1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase "Pietenpol
awareness" in the homebuilding community?
Thoughts?
Douwe
Message 8
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Subject: | where are the new guys/gals?? |
Honestly, I don't really agree. Young builders have historically never been
a big part of EAA builders, for many logical reasons. Yet, I now know of
several who mainly communicate through alternate media like FB and William
Wynne's new chat group. The attached directory from last year lists 119
builder/pilots.and there are many missing from the list. It appears as
though the Piet is doing pretty good.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: where are the new guys/gals??
Hey all,
During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the
Pietenpol "marque" with some concern. I then looked through all my
newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently flying
fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties.
It got me to thinking, "what was happening during those years that
stimulated so much interest and building that isn't happening now?". Maybe
I'm wrong, but Just think of all the projects started around then and it is
quite remarkable. I'd love other's input, especially those who got into it
then, but I came to two different possibilities.
1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped
generate interest in the plane
2. People had more expendable resources and weren't lured away from a
"plans built plane" by "quick-build/snap together" kits.
3. All of the above?
I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask myself,
"where are the young people building" and with a few exceptions, there
aren't many. As always, the loss of the next generation bodes ill for the
future if we can't change things. Which led me to my next question (s)
1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase "Pietenpol
awareness" in the homebuilding community?
Thoughts?
Douwe
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: where are the new guys/gals?? |
Get programs going in high schools where the students are involved in building
a Piet with an experience person helping them?
Jim B.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: where are the new guys/gals?? |
A new guy who was interested, that left and why?
As a young guy who was very interested in building a Pietenpol. I loved the
design and joined a local EAA Chapter. As new builder( who never told
anyone that was actually a experienced A&P ) I asked questions and opinions
but was always treated as an young idiot at the meetings. Being I was the
youngest in the room by a few decades I was treated like a child or simply
ignored. Almost everyone in the group had an RV and was rich and retired.
Alot had never even built just bought. I know clubs are different but this
one felt like exclusive invite only blow hard club. So ever determined I
trooped on,joined this group and asked a few questions and to be honest was
treated fairly. But watched as a few new questions askers were taken to the
shed by a few of the over opinionated. (The whole Grega is not a Pietenpol
)argument is one example. Finally talking to few actual Piet drivers I
found the limitations of the craft to many to justify the massive amount
time trying to build one. She is a pretty bird and I admire Bernie for
designing it and Grega for trying make more functional but alas without
local support and better function it is a plane I will not be building but
good to those who are.
But thanks to all who answered many questions.
On Jun 2, 2015 6:49 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe@douwestudios.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
>
> During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the
> Pietenpol =9Cmarque=9D with some concern. I then looked thro
ugh all my
> newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently flying
> fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties.
>
>
> It got me to thinking, =9Cwhat was happening during those years tha
t
> stimulated so much interest and building that isn=99t happening now
?=9D. Maybe
> I=99m wrong, but Just think of all the projects started around then
and it is
> quite remarkable. I=99d love other=99s input, especially tho
se who got into it
> then, but I came to two different possibilities.
>
>
> 1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped
> generate interest in the plane
>
> 2. People had more expendable resources and weren=99t lured a
way from
> a =9Cplans built plane=9D by =9Cquick-build/snap toget
her=9D kits.
>
> 3. All of the above?
>
>
> I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask
> myself, =9Cwhere are the young people building=9D and with a
few exceptions,
> there aren=99t many. As always, the loss of the next generation bo
des ill
> for the future if we can=99t change things. Which led me to my nex
t question
> (s)
>
>
> 1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase
> =9CPietenpol awareness=9D in the homebuilding community?
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
> *
>
===========
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: where are the new guys/gals?? |
Hi Douwe,
First of all, define "young" - maybe I qualify? Maybe not :)
As a 'future' builder who has the plans, I have not the time, money, or
energy to actually start building. Arguably these are just 'excuses,
excuses' but I work long hours, for a good salary, and still manage to
live paycheck to paycheck. I am paying a mortgage that is frankly
obscene and have a $14,000 deductible on my family's health insurance.
You read that right - 14 thousand!
Please don't think I am complaining, becasue I am not. I have a job,
have good health, and have a home. I know many folks aren't so
fortunate. I am sure there are MANY folks out there who would love to
build a Piet but in the current economic climate, it just isn't going to
happen. Once my kids are grown and the mortgage is manageable, either
through inflation or downsizing/relocation, then maybe it might happen.
The health insurance thing is an ongoing issue though. I don't expect
that to improve any time soon. I earn too much to qualify for any
"Affordable Health Care Act" subsidies, but not enough to afford decent
health insurance.
Putting it into perspective, when the 'true' unemployment rate is nearer
20% and 50+ million Americans are on food stamps, the pool of people
available to build their own plane is not as large as it might have been
in better times.
Anyway - I gotta get back to work :)
Dave
On 06/02/2015 03:46 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the
> Pietenpol marque with some concern. I then looked through all my
> newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently
> flying fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties.
>
> It got me to thinking, what was happening during those years that
> stimulated so much interest and building that isnt happening now?.
> Maybe Im wrong, but Just think of all the projects started around
> then and it is quite remarkable. Id love others input, especially
> those who got into it then, but I came to two different possibilities.
>
> 1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped
> generate interest in the plane
>
> 2.People had more expendable resources and werent lured away from a
> plans built plane by quick-build/snap together kits.
>
> 3.All of the above?
>
> I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask
> myself, where are the young people building and with a few
> exceptions, there arent many. As always, the loss of the next
> generation bodes ill for the future if we cant change things. Which
> led me to my next question (s)
>
> 1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase Pietenpol
> awareness in the homebuilding community?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: where are the new guys/gals?? |
Hi all,
I would like to think that our local EAA chapter is more supportive than s
ome of the others mentioned. We are currently helping one of our members fin
ish his model-A powered Piet. The chapter also has a GN-1 project that we ar
e working on. Planning on a Corvair engine for that one. At 55, I am the thi
rd youngest in the chapter. I feel fortunate that our members are very willi
ng to share their expertise with the other members.
Our chapter feels the effects of not having younger members. I think tha
t it is a combination of factors: 1. It is typically the older folks that w
ill have more disposable income to spend on aviation. 2. I feel that many of
the younger generation( I know I shouldn't generalize), enjoy the instant g
ratification of video games and the like. Case in point, I am a light sport
flight instructor with a Rans s-12 and told my 2 sons and one nephew that I
would work with them to get their light sport license and all they had to d
o was buy gas(premium unleaded auto gas). None of the 3 have pursued this a
side from a few hours. Not going to force the issue.
I will go back to lurking again. Sincerely John Weber
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 2, 2015, at 8:18 PM, David <david@tynerroberts.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Douwe,
>
> First of all, define "young" - maybe I qualify? Maybe not :)
>
> As a 'future' builder who has the plans, I have not the time, money, or en
ergy to actually start building. Arguably these are just 'excuses, excuses' b
ut I work long hours, for a good salary, and still manage to live paycheck t
o paycheck. I am paying a mortgage that is frankly obscene and have a $14,00
0 deductible on my family's health insurance. You read that right - 14 thous
and!
>
> Please don't think I am complaining, becasue I am not. I have a job, have g
ood health, and have a home. I know many folks aren't so fortunate. I am sur
e there are MANY folks out there who would love to build a Piet but in the c
urrent economic climate, it just isn't going to happen. Once my kids are gro
wn and the mortgage is manageable, either through inflation or downsizing/re
location, then maybe it might happen. The health insurance thing is an ongoi
ng issue though. I don't expect that to improve any time soon. I earn too mu
ch to qualify for any "Affordable Health Care Act" subsidies, but not enough
to afford decent health insurance.
>
> Putting it into perspective, when the 'true' unemployment rate is nearer 2
0% and 50+ million Americans are on food stamps, the pool of people availabl
e to build their own plane is not as large as it might have been in better t
imes.
>
> Anyway - I gotta get back to work :)
>
> Dave
>
>> On 06/02/2015 03:46 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the Piet
enpol =9Cmarque=9D with some concern. I then looked through all
my newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently flyin
g fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties.
>>
>> It got me to thinking, =9Cwhat was happening during those years tha
t stimulated so much interest and building that isn=99t happening now?
=9D. Maybe I=99m wrong, but Just think of all the projects star
ted around then and it is quite remarkable. I=99d love other=99
s input, especially those who got into it then, but I came to two different p
ossibilities.
>>
>> 1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped
generate interest in the plane
>> 2. People had more expendable resources and weren=99t lured a
way from a =9Cplans built plane=9D by =9Cquick-build/snap
together=9D kits.
>> 3. All of the above?
>>
>> I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask mysel
f, =9Cwhere are the young people building=9D and with a
few exceptions, there aren=99t many. As always, the loss of the next
generation bodes ill for the future if we can=99t change things. Whi
ch led me to my next question (s)
>>
>> 1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase =9C
Pietenpol awareness=9D in the homebuilding community?
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Douwe
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
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Subject: | ANYONE Need A Ride |
I'm driving to Skokie IL (just outside of Chicago) on the evening of 13 July. I
will be leaving northern Alabama near Huntsville. I will then head up to Brodhead
WI on Wednesday the 15th. If anyone would like to contact me and discuss
a ride just drop me an email and maybe we can work something out. I'll be leaving
Skokie IL on Sunday the 19th and will be heading back down to Alabama the
same day.
Tony
tonyp51qa@gmail.com
--------
Tony Crawford
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Subject: | Re: where are the new guys/gals?? |
Well, "young" may be relative here. I started attending Brodhead in 1992. At that
time, there was a mix of old-timers and REALLY old-timers. Ed Salmson, Dick
Alkire, VanderVoort the Elder, Chris Eggsgardt (spelling?), Charlie Rubrick,
Dick Weeden, and many whose names I can't recall right now. Those guys were all
still very active in the sport. I was, BY FAR, the youngest builder/pilot (and
not much of either) that I was aware of at the Brodhead. I was 30. A lot of
those guys were in their 60s and 70s. And attendance was MUCH less than now.
Now think back to the most recent Brodhead you've attended. How many people were
in their 30s? 60s? 70s? I don't know about your recollections, but mine are
that there were very few owners or builders in their 30s, but LOTS in their 40s,
50s, 60s, and 70s. So, from my very limited experience, I'd say that the Pietenpol
world is actually somewhat YOUNGER than when I first became involved.
And it really is true that 60 is the new 40. Heck, 70 is the new 40! There are
now more "younger" Piet people, and more ACTIVE Piet people of all ages, than
there ever have been.
And you never know who among the non-owner, non-builder attendees will turn out
to be "Pietenpeople." Anyone who met me at my first Brodhead would've pegged
me as a wannabe and probably discounted my presence as just another ground pounder.
But today I own a Piet and fly it a lot. I've introduced many people to
their first flights in small planes, or in open-cockpit planes, or in taildraggers,
etc. Who knows how many of THOSE people will continue an interest. Heck,
one of them is trying to buy into my Piet as it is - and he gets to fly spam
cans for free!
I don't know that I have much a point here, other than that my perspective is that
the Pietenpol world is doing better now than it has since I became aware of
it 20-25 years ago.
Read this topic online here:
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Subject: | Re: where are the new guys/gals?? |
Want to see if there is anybody around who might be interested? Just open your
garage door when you're working on some part of the airplane, especially once
it's on the gear. That's how I found builders when I first got interested in
experimental aviation... by chance, by seeing something that looked like an airplane
in somebody's garage. You don't have to hang out a sign, attend a meeting,
post a notice, nothing. Just open the garage door anytime you're working
on the airplane or some part of it. Pretty soon you'll find out if there is
somebody out there who has the beginnings of a pair of wings on them.
Myself, personally, I have all of the raw materials (spar material, wood to be
ripped into longerons and framing, plywood for the sides, landing gear, other
bits) to get someone well along on an Air Camper build- and I would gladly get
them started under the pretense that "I am 50-50 partners with you on this airplane".
I'd never charge them for it and would be happy just to see another
Piet under construction. An interested and dedicated builder could have enough
to work on for a few years, at no cost, just with the things I have in the hangar
and shop, including tools. I'm still waiting for that interested person
to show up, and the younger the better. Old guys just seem to want to tell stories
instead of working ;o) And I'm going to be ready for Social Security next
year!! I'd also fly a newbie around in my Air Camper to really stoke the
fires, no charge for fuel or anything else. Teach them how to prop a Continental.
Anybody out there, in southern Oregon or northern California?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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