---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/02/15: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:01 AM - Re: Aft CG (Flyboy) 2. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Aft CG (Barry Davis) 3. 08:35 AM - Re: NEED ADVICE!!!! (Baldeagle) 4. 09:08 AM - Re: Aft CG (David McBride) 5. 10:46 AM - very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 6. 11:12 AM - Re: very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear (Gary Boothe) 7. 03:47 PM - where are the new guys/gals?? (Douwe Blumberg) 8. 04:07 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (Gary Boothe) 9. 04:26 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (Jim Boyer) 10. 05:04 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (benjamin piet) 11. 05:19 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (David) 12. 06:14 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (John Weber) 13. 06:41 PM - ANYONE Need A Ride (tonyp51qa) 14. 07:28 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (Jeff Boatright) 15. 10:07 PM - Re: where are the new guys/gals?? (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG From: "Flyboy" Gentlemen, I had the students post the cg comment. They do this under my name. Thank you for all the responses. It is a great learning tool for them. What I had them do is move the wing back and redo the front struts. We hope to weight the plane again tomorrow. School year is coming to an end. We do calculate full fuel and zero fuel. I do have a student 315 lbs. We know he is not able to get in the Piet. He did stand on our Oratex fabric test panels and the test was successful. Our continental 65 does have a leak on number 2 around the spark plug insert. They make .03, .06, .09 oversize inserts. The compression was 74/80. That will be our next obstacle. Thank you again for all the comments. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442900#442900 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:37 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG About the leak around the #2 insert..... the copper washer should seal all leaks between the head and spark plug base, so if the insert was leaking, it would be stopped by the washer. The seal is the copper washer, not the insert. From past experience, a leak around the spark plug area means a bad weld on a repaired cylinder or a crack radiating from the spark plug hole. Just check this area carefully. Barry Davis NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flyboy Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 8:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG Gentlemen, I had the students post the cg comment. They do this under my name. Thank you for all the responses. It is a great learning tool for them. What I had them do is move the wing back and redo the front struts. We hope to weight the plane again tomorrow. School year is coming to an end. We do calculate full fuel and zero fuel. I do have a student 315 lbs. We know he is not able to get in the Piet. He did stand on our Oratex fabric test panels and the test was successful. Our continental 65 does have a leak on number 2 around the spark plug insert. They make .03, .06, .09 oversize inserts. The compression was 74/80. That will be our next obstacle. Thank you again for all the comments. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442900#442900 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NEED ADVICE!!!! From: "Baldeagle" Definately go via Green Co. instead of via Fairmont, the terrain is much better, and Green Co. has a good restaurant. And you can land on the grass on the south side of the runway. And more choice of airports after Green Co. Douwe, one advantage to O'Hare is that there is a bus service from Beloit to O'Hare, and it will be easier to get a ride to Beloit (about 20 miles from Brodhead) than to Madison or Milwaukee. They start as early as 3:45 AM: http://www.coachusa.com/vangalder/ss.details.asp?action=Lookup&c1=South+Beloit&s1=IL&c2=Chicago+O%27Hare+Airport&s2=IL&resultId=9266&order=&dayFilter=&scheduleChoice=&sitePageName=&cbid=653912813332 -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442903#442903 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aft CG From: "David McBride" Awesome! Wish i had a class like this. Keep us posted on the updated W&B. CONGRATS! Looks like alot of hard work done by many people. -------- David McBride Rochester, NY dmcb84@hotmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442907#442907 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:46:55 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear Just stumbled upon this cruising Facebook. Nice looking! Mike C. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Posey-Brothers-Aviation/133631146705234 [cid:image001.jpg@01D09D3A.7E0A69A0] ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:03 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear It's gonna be a monoplane. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 10:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: very cool looking Pietenpol fuselage on gear Just stumbled upon this cruising Facebook. Nice looking! Mike C. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Posey-Brothers-Aviation/133631146705234 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:43 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: where are the new guys/gals?? Hey all, During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the Pietenpol "marque" with some concern. I then looked through all my newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently flying fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties. It got me to thinking, "what was happening during those years that stimulated so much interest and building that isn't happening now?". Maybe I'm wrong, but Just think of all the projects started around then and it is quite remarkable. I'd love other's input, especially those who got into it then, but I came to two different possibilities. 1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped generate interest in the plane 2. People had more expendable resources and weren't lured away from a "plans built plane" by "quick-build/snap together" kits. 3. All of the above? I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask myself, "where are the young people building" and with a few exceptions, there aren't many. As always, the loss of the next generation bodes ill for the future if we can't change things. Which led me to my next question (s) 1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase "Pietenpol awareness" in the homebuilding community? Thoughts? Douwe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:33 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: where are the new guys/gals?? Honestly, I don't really agree. Young builders have historically never been a big part of EAA builders, for many logical reasons. Yet, I now know of several who mainly communicate through alternate media like FB and William Wynne's new chat group. The attached directory from last year lists 119 builder/pilots.and there are many missing from the list. It appears as though the Piet is doing pretty good. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: where are the new guys/gals?? Hey all, During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the Pietenpol "marque" with some concern. I then looked through all my newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently flying fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties. It got me to thinking, "what was happening during those years that stimulated so much interest and building that isn't happening now?". Maybe I'm wrong, but Just think of all the projects started around then and it is quite remarkable. I'd love other's input, especially those who got into it then, but I came to two different possibilities. 1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped generate interest in the plane 2. People had more expendable resources and weren't lured away from a "plans built plane" by "quick-build/snap together" kits. 3. All of the above? I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask myself, "where are the young people building" and with a few exceptions, there aren't many. As always, the loss of the next generation bodes ill for the future if we can't change things. Which led me to my next question (s) 1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase "Pietenpol awareness" in the homebuilding community? Thoughts? Douwe ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:39 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: where are the new guys/gals?? Get programs going in high schools where the students are involved in building a Piet with an experience person helping them? Jim B. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: where are the new guys/gals?? From: benjamin piet A new guy who was interested, that left and why? As a young guy who was very interested in building a Pietenpol. I loved the design and joined a local EAA Chapter. As new builder( who never told anyone that was actually a experienced A&P ) I asked questions and opinions but was always treated as an young idiot at the meetings. Being I was the youngest in the room by a few decades I was treated like a child or simply ignored. Almost everyone in the group had an RV and was rich and retired. Alot had never even built just bought. I know clubs are different but this one felt like exclusive invite only blow hard club. So ever determined I trooped on,joined this group and asked a few questions and to be honest was treated fairly. But watched as a few new questions askers were taken to the shed by a few of the over opinionated. (The whole Grega is not a Pietenpol )argument is one example. Finally talking to few actual Piet drivers I found the limitations of the craft to many to justify the massive amount time trying to build one. She is a pretty bird and I admire Bernie for designing it and Grega for trying make more functional but alas without local support and better function it is a plane I will not be building but good to those who are. But thanks to all who answered many questions. On Jun 2, 2015 6:49 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > Hey all, > > > During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the > Pietenpol =9Cmarque=9D with some concern. I then looked thro ugh all my > newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently flying > fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties. > > > It got me to thinking, =9Cwhat was happening during those years tha t > stimulated so much interest and building that isn=99t happening now ?=9D. Maybe > I=99m wrong, but Just think of all the projects started around then and it is > quite remarkable. I=99d love other=99s input, especially tho se who got into it > then, but I came to two different possibilities. > > > 1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped > generate interest in the plane > > 2. People had more expendable resources and weren=99t lured a way from > a =9Cplans built plane=9D by =9Cquick-build/snap toget her=9D kits. > > 3. All of the above? > > > I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask > myself, =9Cwhere are the young people building=9D and with a few exceptions, > there aren=99t many. As always, the loss of the next generation bo des ill > for the future if we can=99t change things. Which led me to my nex t question > (s) > > > 1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase > =9CPietenpol awareness=9D in the homebuilding community? > > > Thoughts? > > > Douwe > > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:23 PM PST US From: David Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: where are the new guys/gals?? Hi Douwe, First of all, define "young" - maybe I qualify? Maybe not :) As a 'future' builder who has the plans, I have not the time, money, or energy to actually start building. Arguably these are just 'excuses, excuses' but I work long hours, for a good salary, and still manage to live paycheck to paycheck. I am paying a mortgage that is frankly obscene and have a $14,000 deductible on my family's health insurance. You read that right - 14 thousand! Please don't think I am complaining, becasue I am not. I have a job, have good health, and have a home. I know many folks aren't so fortunate. I am sure there are MANY folks out there who would love to build a Piet but in the current economic climate, it just isn't going to happen. Once my kids are grown and the mortgage is manageable, either through inflation or downsizing/relocation, then maybe it might happen. The health insurance thing is an ongoing issue though. I don't expect that to improve any time soon. I earn too much to qualify for any "Affordable Health Care Act" subsidies, but not enough to afford decent health insurance. Putting it into perspective, when the 'true' unemployment rate is nearer 20% and 50+ million Americans are on food stamps, the pool of people available to build their own plane is not as large as it might have been in better times. Anyway - I gotta get back to work :) Dave On 06/02/2015 03:46 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > Hey all, > > During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the > Pietenpol marque with some concern. I then looked through all my > newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently > flying fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties. > > It got me to thinking, what was happening during those years that > stimulated so much interest and building that isnt happening now?. > Maybe Im wrong, but Just think of all the projects started around > then and it is quite remarkable. Id love others input, especially > those who got into it then, but I came to two different possibilities. > > 1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped > generate interest in the plane > > 2.People had more expendable resources and werent lured away from a > plans built plane by quick-build/snap together kits. > > 3.All of the above? > > I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask > myself, where are the young people building and with a few > exceptions, there arent many. As always, the loss of the next > generation bodes ill for the future if we cant change things. Which > led me to my next question (s) > > 1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase Pietenpol > awareness in the homebuilding community? > > Thoughts? > > Douwe > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: where are the new guys/gals?? From: John Weber Hi all, I would like to think that our local EAA chapter is more supportive than s ome of the others mentioned. We are currently helping one of our members fin ish his model-A powered Piet. The chapter also has a GN-1 project that we ar e working on. Planning on a Corvair engine for that one. At 55, I am the thi rd youngest in the chapter. I feel fortunate that our members are very willi ng to share their expertise with the other members. Our chapter feels the effects of not having younger members. I think tha t it is a combination of factors: 1. It is typically the older folks that w ill have more disposable income to spend on aviation. 2. I feel that many of the younger generation( I know I shouldn't generalize), enjoy the instant g ratification of video games and the like. Case in point, I am a light sport flight instructor with a Rans s-12 and told my 2 sons and one nephew that I would work with them to get their light sport license and all they had to d o was buy gas(premium unleaded auto gas). None of the 3 have pursued this a side from a few hours. Not going to force the issue. I will go back to lurking again. Sincerely John Weber Sent from my iPad > On Jun 2, 2015, at 8:18 PM, David wrote: > > Hi Douwe, > > First of all, define "young" - maybe I qualify? Maybe not :) > > As a 'future' builder who has the plans, I have not the time, money, or en ergy to actually start building. Arguably these are just 'excuses, excuses' b ut I work long hours, for a good salary, and still manage to live paycheck t o paycheck. I am paying a mortgage that is frankly obscene and have a $14,00 0 deductible on my family's health insurance. You read that right - 14 thous and! > > Please don't think I am complaining, becasue I am not. I have a job, have g ood health, and have a home. I know many folks aren't so fortunate. I am sur e there are MANY folks out there who would love to build a Piet but in the c urrent economic climate, it just isn't going to happen. Once my kids are gro wn and the mortgage is manageable, either through inflation or downsizing/re location, then maybe it might happen. The health insurance thing is an ongoi ng issue though. I don't expect that to improve any time soon. I earn too mu ch to qualify for any "Affordable Health Care Act" subsidies, but not enough to afford decent health insurance. > > Putting it into perspective, when the 'true' unemployment rate is nearer 2 0% and 50+ million Americans are on food stamps, the pool of people availabl e to build their own plane is not as large as it might have been in better t imes. > > Anyway - I gotta get back to work :) > > Dave > >> On 06/02/2015 03:46 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> During a recent long drive I got to thinking about the future of the Piet enpol =9Cmarque=9D with some concern. I then looked through all my newsletter back issues and realized just how many of our currently flyin g fleet were began in the late eighties and early nineties. >> >> It got me to thinking, =9Cwhat was happening during those years tha t stimulated so much interest and building that isn=99t happening now? =9D. Maybe I=99m wrong, but Just think of all the projects star ted around then and it is quite remarkable. I=99d love other=99 s input, especially those who got into it then, but I came to two different p ossibilities. >> >> 1. There was a strong and active Pietenpol club that really helped generate interest in the plane >> 2. People had more expendable resources and weren=99t lured a way from a =9Cplans built plane=9D by =9Cquick-build/snap together=9D kits. >> 3. All of the above? >> >> I look around at Brodhead, and the projects being worked on and ask mysel f, =9Cwhere are the young people building=9D and with a few exceptions, there aren=99t many. As always, the loss of the next generation bodes ill for the future if we can=99t change things. Whi ch led me to my next question (s) >> >> 1. What can we do corporately and individually to increase =9C Pietenpol awareness=9D in the homebuilding community? >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Douwe > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: ANYONE Need A Ride From: "tonyp51qa" I'm driving to Skokie IL (just outside of Chicago) on the evening of 13 July. I will be leaving northern Alabama near Huntsville. I will then head up to Brodhead WI on Wednesday the 15th. If anyone would like to contact me and discuss a ride just drop me an email and maybe we can work something out. I'll be leaving Skokie IL on Sunday the 19th and will be heading back down to Alabama the same day. Tony tonyp51qa@gmail.com -------- Tony Crawford Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442923#442923 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: where are the new guys/gals?? From: "Jeff Boatright" Well, "young" may be relative here. I started attending Brodhead in 1992. At that time, there was a mix of old-timers and REALLY old-timers. Ed Salmson, Dick Alkire, VanderVoort the Elder, Chris Eggsgardt (spelling?), Charlie Rubrick, Dick Weeden, and many whose names I can't recall right now. Those guys were all still very active in the sport. I was, BY FAR, the youngest builder/pilot (and not much of either) that I was aware of at the Brodhead. I was 30. A lot of those guys were in their 60s and 70s. And attendance was MUCH less than now. Now think back to the most recent Brodhead you've attended. How many people were in their 30s? 60s? 70s? I don't know about your recollections, but mine are that there were very few owners or builders in their 30s, but LOTS in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. So, from my very limited experience, I'd say that the Pietenpol world is actually somewhat YOUNGER than when I first became involved. And it really is true that 60 is the new 40. Heck, 70 is the new 40! There are now more "younger" Piet people, and more ACTIVE Piet people of all ages, than there ever have been. And you never know who among the non-owner, non-builder attendees will turn out to be "Pietenpeople." Anyone who met me at my first Brodhead would've pegged me as a wannabe and probably discounted my presence as just another ground pounder. But today I own a Piet and fly it a lot. I've introduced many people to their first flights in small planes, or in open-cockpit planes, or in taildraggers, etc. Who knows how many of THOSE people will continue an interest. Heck, one of them is trying to buy into my Piet as it is - and he gets to fly spam cans for free! I don't know that I have much a point here, other than that my perspective is that the Pietenpol world is doing better now than it has since I became aware of it 20-25 years ago. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442924#442924 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: where are the new guys/gals?? From: "taildrags" Want to see if there is anybody around who might be interested? Just open your garage door when you're working on some part of the airplane, especially once it's on the gear. That's how I found builders when I first got interested in experimental aviation... by chance, by seeing something that looked like an airplane in somebody's garage. You don't have to hang out a sign, attend a meeting, post a notice, nothing. Just open the garage door anytime you're working on the airplane or some part of it. Pretty soon you'll find out if there is somebody out there who has the beginnings of a pair of wings on them. Myself, personally, I have all of the raw materials (spar material, wood to be ripped into longerons and framing, plywood for the sides, landing gear, other bits) to get someone well along on an Air Camper build- and I would gladly get them started under the pretense that "I am 50-50 partners with you on this airplane". I'd never charge them for it and would be happy just to see another Piet under construction. An interested and dedicated builder could have enough to work on for a few years, at no cost, just with the things I have in the hangar and shop, including tools. I'm still waiting for that interested person to show up, and the younger the better. Old guys just seem to want to tell stories instead of working ;o) And I'm going to be ready for Social Security next year!! I'd also fly a newbie around in my Air Camper to really stoke the fires, no charge for fuel or anything else. Teach them how to prop a Continental. Anybody out there, in southern Oregon or northern California? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442925#442925 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.