---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/30/15: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:36 AM - Re: Re: Brodhead 2015 - Pietenpol Hatz Fly in Schedule of Events (Jack) 2. 02:40 AM - Re: Re: Wing Rib Construction (danhelsper@aol.com) 3. 04:41 AM - Re: Wing Rib Construction (Andy Garrett) 4. 04:58 AM - Re: Wing Rib Construction (womenfly2) 5. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Modern old engine ideaRe: Modern old engine idea Modern old engine idea (Ralph) 6. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: Wing Rib Construction (Charles N. Campbell) 7. 07:11 AM - Re: Wing Rib Construction (bdewenter) 8. 07:51 AM - Re: Wing Rib Construction (Bill Church) 9. 09:12 AM - Re: Wing Rib Construction (Andy Garrett) 10. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Brodhead 2015 - Pietenpol Hatz Fly in Schedule of Events (Charles N. Campbell) 11. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Wing Rib Construction (Charles N. Campbell) 12. 10:49 AM - Re: Foo Fighter 001 Pictures (j_dunavin) 13. 10:49 AM - Charles Campbell coming to Brodhead (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 14. 11:54 AM - Re: Brodhead 2015 - Pietenpol Hatz Fly in Schedule of Events (echobravo4) 15. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Brodhead 2015 - Pietenpol Hatz Fly in Schedule of Events (Andre B. Charvet) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2015 - Pietenpol Hatz Fly in Schedule of Events From: Jack Very much looking forward to it Shelley! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Jun 29, 2015, at 6:11 PM, "IT Girl" wrote: > > > I am so excited about getting to Brodhead this year. I cannot wait to see you all. > > -------- > Shelley Tumino > IT Girl > wife of "Axel" > NX899KP > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444199#444199 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:41 AM PST US From: danhelsper@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction Yea, and to test them you could have an elephant stand on each, as some have suggested in the past. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear TN -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church Sent: Mon, Jun 29, 2015 9:37 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction The strength of the joints in the plans-built rib comes almost completely from the gussets, due to the amount of surface area. There is some strength in the glue joint between the sticks, but not much, simply because there is not much contact area. I would think that the method you have described would not provide much contact area. Additionally, I'm not sure what the advantage would be. You would have to cut and bend twice as many cap strip pieces. But more importantly, once the pieces are put into the jig and glued, you're still going to have to let the glue cure for a day before removing the rib - so your productivity will still be one rib per day. If you're really curious, build one rib each way, and then do a comparison of actual weight and strength. The traditional rib will surely be stronger, and most likely just a little bit heavier. The traditional rib is certainly beefy, and likely overbuilt. Some have suggested that the ribs could be built using 1/4" x 3/8" capstrips instead of the 1/4" x 1/2" shown in the plans. I just stuck with the plans. At a pace of one rib per day, they can all be built in a month. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444166#444166 - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse Un/Subscription, Photoshare, and much much more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - Forums! http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction From: "Andy Garrett" Bill's comment turned on a light bulb in my head. I have some testing to do. :D -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444218#444218 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction From: "womenfly2" This form of rib construction has been around for a long time ... just as strong as a gusset rib if designed correctly. No reason you cannot build a Piet rib like this, simpler too. Maybe even lighter ... ? WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444219#444219 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/m_dscn2857_620.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/m_dscn2902_155.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:47 AM PST US From: "Ralph" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modern old engine ideaRe: Modern old engine idea Modern old engine idea Regarding the =9Csmall block=9D Ford sixes, except for the earliest ones the 200 cu. in. and all the 240 and 300 had 7 main bearings. I overhauled a 200 a number of years ago to =9Chop up=9D a 1960 Falcon. There is an amazing difference between the 85 hp rated 144 cu. in. and the 120 hp rated 200 cu. in. engine in a small car. They do not have a very large rear main bearing. Ralph ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction From: "Charles N. Campbell" I agree with Bill. Actually, I think the alternate rib would be heavier -- considerably. The main difference would be two 1/4 X 1/2 rib caps where, I think, most of the weight would be. I have never weighed one so don't know. The weight of the 1/16-inch gussets is minimal, I think. Suggest you do as Bill suggested and then decide which way to go. Chuck On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Bill Church wrote: > billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > The strength of the joints in the plans-built rib comes almost completely > from the gussets, due to the amount of surface area. There is some > strength in the glue joint between the sticks, but not much, simply because > there is not much contact area. I would think that the method you have > described would not provide much contact area. > Additionally, I'm not sure what the advantage would be. You would have to > cut and bend twice as many cap strip pieces. But more importantly, once > the pieces are put into the jig and glued, you're still going to have to > let the glue cure for a day before removing the rib - so your productivity > will still be one rib per day. > If you're really curious, build one rib each way, and then do a comparison > of actual weight and strength. The traditional rib will surely be > stronger, and most likely just a little bit heavier. The traditional rib > is certainly beefy, and likely overbuilt. Some have suggested that the ribs > could be built using 1/4" x 3/8" capstrips instead of the 1/4" x 1/2" shown > in the plans. I just stuck with the plans. At a pace of one rib per day, > they can all be built in a month. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444166#444166 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:33 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction From: "bdewenter" Andy, I am currently on rib 25 of 30 (or 32 perhaps). I can tell you from my perspective you are inventing a solution to a problem that does not exist. I can put together a rib in about 20 minutes (if I did not take small breaks to visit my son and wife so I do not feel guilty being in the workshop right when I get home!) I prefabbed 1,100 gussets (4 shapes) in about 4 total hours time from a sheet of 24" x 48" 1/16th aircraft grade plywood. I use a table saw, a chop saw and tin snips. They sit in 4 plastic containers marked "A" - "D" I prefabbed the 11 (x 32) rib members using a chop saw with a stop block in about 3 hours total time. These are in 1 gallon zip log bags marked 0-10 (0 being the nose block) I use wax paper pieces under the gussets. I made about 1100 of those in about the same manner as the gussets only I used a 6' straight edge and a razor knife. I can mix up a batch of Epoxy resin in three minutes. Assembly is like a an assembly line. I use a razor blade cutter to make minute trimmings on the rib members to fit the curve of the upper and lower cap strip as I assemble each rib. Others use a sanding station. Only items 0, 1, 2 8 and 10 require minute trimming to compensate for the curves. each trimming takes 5 seconds. Despite what some have said, I find the wing rib construction somewhat therapeutic. I do one per evening 4 nights a week. Sorry I'm almost done. email me for any info rdewenter@woh.rr.com -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444229#444229 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction From: "Bill Church" WF2, Three very important words in your statement: "if designed correctly" However, looking at the photos you supplied and comparing to the Pietenpol rib design, this method is NOT simpler. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444233#444233 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction From: "Andy Garrett" Bob, Thanks for the detailed break down of your procedure--very helpful. I may very well choose to complete the ribs as the plans indicate. It's been working fine for decades, and it certainly doesn't need any fixing. However, at 44 years old, this may be the only plane I ever build. I want to responsibly embrace the 'experimental' aspect of this project. Perhaps if I keep an open mind to clever engineering at each stage of the process, I may even find an opportunity to innovate and contribute something to future builders (even if it is proving what doesn't work ). More than anything, I just want to enjoy the project as an exercise in creativity while never getting too far afield. As it is, I'm building my plane as a single place, 2 inches wider at the cockpit, taller dash, Sky Scout style landing gear, and a variety of other changes are being considered. Per the Pietenpol website, I think that they would prefer that I not even call it a 'Pietenpol'. (They actually emphasize that point.) Perhaps I will call it a 'Piet Inspired Airplane' Thanks for the tips and those helpful photos. There are some details there I need to explore a bit. -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444238#444238 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2015 - Pietenpol Hatz Fly in Schedule of Events From: "Charles N. Campbell" Shelly, my daughter, her son, and I are coming to Brodhead with a 5th wheel trailer and BIG Dodge diesel truck. I, too, am really looking forward to meeting everyone in person. I have enjoyed the Piet forum so much I am sure I will like the people in person more. Looking forward to seeing you there. Chuck On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 7:11 PM, IT Girl wrote: > > I am so excited about getting to Brodhead this year. I cannot wait to see > you all. > > -------- > Shelley Tumino > IT Girl > wife of "Axel" > NX899KP > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444199#444199 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Construction From: "Charles N. Campbell" Man, your'e going to miss all the chicks who want a ride. I have already promised the first ride to a knock-out lady of about 30 years. I'd keep the front seat if I were you! Chuck On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Andy Garrett wrote: > andy_garrett@live.com> > > Bob, Thanks for the detailed break down of your procedure--very helpful. I > may very well choose to complete the ribs as the plans indicate. It's been > working fine for decades, and it certainly doesn't need any fixing. > However, at 44 years old, this may be the only plane I ever build. I want > to responsibly embrace the 'experimental' aspect of this project. Perhaps > if I keep an open mind to clever engineering at each stage of the process, > I may even find an opportunity to innovate and contribute something to > future builders (even if it is proving what doesn't work ). > > More than anything, I just want to enjoy the project as an exercise in > creativity while never getting too far afield. As it is, I'm building my > plane as a single place, 2 inches wider at the cockpit, taller dash, Sky > Scout style landing gear, and a variety of other changes are being > considered. Per the Pietenpol website, I think that they would prefer that > I not even call it a 'Pietenpol'. (They actually emphasize that point.) > Perhaps I will call it a 'Piet Inspired Airplane' > > Thanks for the tips and those helpful photos. There are some details there > I need to explore a bit. > > -------- > Andy Garrett > 'General Purpose Creative Dude' > Haysville, Kansas > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444238#444238 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Foo Fighter 001 Pictures From: "j_dunavin" Amazing! Nice Job Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444245#444245 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:31 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Charles Campbell coming to Brodhead T2theeKApi4udGhlcmXigJlzIHJlYXNvbiBudW1iZXIgMjQ3IHRoYXQgSeKAmW0gZ2xhZCBJ4oCZ bSBwbGFubmluZyBvbiBjb21pbmcgdG8gQnJvZGhlYWQgYWdhaW4gdGhpcyB5ZWFyLg0KDQpXaGF0 IGFuIGhvbm9yIGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgdG8gbWVldCB5b3UgdGhlcmUgQ2h1Y2shISEgICBTbyBnbGFk IHlvdSBhcmUgbWFraW5nIHRoZSB0cmlwIGFuZCBzb3VuZHMgbGlrZSB5b3XigJlyZSBjb21pbmcg aW4gc3R5bGUgdG9vIHdpdGggeW91ciBkYXVnaHRlcg0KYW5kIGhlciBzb24hICAgTG9va2luZyBm b3J3YXJkIHRvIG1lZXRpbmcgeW91ISEhDQoNCk1pY2hhZWwgQ3V5DQpPaGlvDQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2015 - Pietenpol Hatz Fly in Schedule of Events From: "echobravo4" Yes! Even more excited after last nights "conversation"!! -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444252#444252 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2015 - Pietenpol Hatz Fly in Schedule of Events From: "Andre B. 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