Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:01 AM - Re: Fuel tank progress/welding..... (womenfly2)
2. 09:23 AM - Total Cost? (BritishJim)
3. 09:40 AM - Re: Total Cost? (Gary Boothe)
4. 09:46 AM - Re: Total Cost? (Scott Knowlton)
5. 09:47 AM - Re: Total Cost? (Scott Knowlton)
6. 10:14 AM - Re: Balloon tires? (Andy Garrett)
7. 10:31 AM - Re: Total Cost? (tools)
8. 10:55 AM - Re: Total Cost? (Jack Philips)
9. 11:43 AM - Re: Total Cost? (AircamperN11MS)
10. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Total Cost? (Robert Gow)
11. 12:40 PM - Re: Total Cost? (Barry Davis)
12. 01:44 PM - Re: Total Cost? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
13. 03:22 PM - Re: Total Cost? (Jerry Dotson)
14. 05:06 PM - Re: Fuel tank progress/welding..... (aerocarjake)
15. 05:17 PM - Re: Total Cost? (Bill Church)
16. 05:27 PM - Re: Total Cost? (tools)
17. 06:24 PM - Re: Total Cost? (BritishJim)
18. 08:07 PM - Re: Corvair Fuselage Questions (taildrags)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank progress/welding..... |
Wow! ... 126 pounds of fuel. That is a lot of inertia in the center section.
Very nice tank.
Wf2
--------
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446470#446470
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How long is a piece of string....right?
I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80
Tiger Moth.
Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? I
know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.
I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.
I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out
in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting local
suppliers.
Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p
Jim.
--------
Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471
Message 3
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Round numbers - $12,000
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 28, 2015, at 9:23 AM, BritishJim <james@pieceofcakepr.com> wrote:
>
>
> How long is a piece of string....right?
>
> I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's
R-80 Tiger Moth.
>
> Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?
I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.
>
> I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.
I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out
in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting
local suppliers.
>
> Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p
>
> Jim.
>
> --------
> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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The wood for a Piet shouldn't cost you more than $2500cdn but perhaps the shipping
will mark that up significantly.
I have all my steel pieces made and spent less than $400.00
My motorcycle wheels cost $50.00 each on Kijjiji and I respoked them for an additional
$75 each.
Fuel tank: $300.00
Varnishes, glues, brushes, gloves:$300.00
Cowling materials: $200.00
Pullies, cables, shackles, turnbuckles, clevis pins, etc: $1500.0. (That stuff
is expensive!!)
Strut/cabane material (Carleson aluminium): $350.00
Engine/prop: $6000.00
Fabric/glue/latex paint: $1800.00
Instruments (basic VFR) $1200.00
Seatbelts: $400.00
These figures are what I spent, some scrounging involved, some over-paying because
I needed it NOW (or so I thought.....).
Plus or minus $15K Canadian. I'm sure I've forgotten many little items that others
can chime in from but the word around my household is that I spent 15K and
I will not admit to more.... The best part of this is that I have been building
for about 8 years so the accumulation of parts and pieces has come from my
mad money. I wouldn't have had that option if I was putting a big chunk of cash
down on a kit. I've also loved the many social experiences that have occurred
when I met people who's building supplies I purchased: Seatbelts on Kijjiji,
exhaust system on eBay from a Chinook pilot stationed in Afghanistan, turnbuckles
at the Oshkosh fly mart, motorcycle wheels from a Cafe Racer builder...
Really cool people who I think of often when I look at my project.
I also love answering the "is that a kit?", question from people who visit my shop.
I reply, "yes it was, it came in a poster tube..."
We can talk more when we visit.
Scott
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 28, 2015, at 12:27 PM, "BritishJim" <james@pieceofcakepr.com> wrote:
>
>
> How long is a piece of string....right?
>
> I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's
R-80 Tiger Moth.
>
> Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?
I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.
>
> I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.
I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out
in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting
local suppliers.
>
> Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p
>
> Jim.
>
> --------
> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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$12,000US = $15,000 CDN!!!!!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 28, 2015, at 12:43 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Round numbers - $12,000
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 28, 2015, at 9:23 AM, BritishJim <james@pieceofcakepr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> How long is a piece of string....right?
>>
>> I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's
R-80 Tiger Moth.
>>
>> Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?
I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.
>>
>> I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much.
I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live
out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting
local suppliers.
>>
>> Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p
>>
>> Jim.
>>
>> --------
>> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Balloon tires? |
I'm interested in these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181471176464?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82
They are being tested by Zenair on their CH750. You can read about it here:
http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/testing-larger-bushwheel-tires
$50ish each for now because its made for an ATV. Once they start getting aviation
business, I'm sure the cost will quaduple.
--------
Andy Garrett
'General Purpose Creative Dude'
Haysville, Kansas
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Message 7
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Food for thought... A Piet is one of the most popular home builts ever. Buying
a wrecked, dilapidated or stared but never finished project saves a bunch of
time and money.
Not sure about the quality? The expensive parts are fairly easily checked. The
wood is cheap compared to the whole project... You get the idea.
I refer to them as quick build kits, some less quick than others. As with all
buying, just be sure about what you are getting, and spend less than it's worth.
Not trivial, but then again, what's trivial about buying it all separately
or building a plane to begin with?
I also consider it my contribution to recycling.
Cheers!
Tools
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Message 8
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Jim, I spared no expense when building my Pietenpol, using expensive
polyurethane paint and adding a radio and transponder. My total cost was
$15,000 (ten years ago). It took me eight years to build it. I like to
tell people I spent the same amount of money in those eight years that a two
pack per day smoker would have spent on cigarettes.
One of the unsung advantages of building to plans versus a kit is that the
expenses can be spread out much further. I'm currently building an RV-10
kit and each of the four kits (Tail, Wings, Fuselage, and Finishing) are
quite expensive and represent a substantial investment. I just got the
fuselage kit and am starting to save now for the $16,000 that will be
required for the finishing kit. When building my Pietenpol the largest
single expenditure was $3,200 for new Millenium cylinders for the engine.
Most of the orders were around a few hundred dollars.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BritishJim
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 12:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
--> <james@pieceofcakepr.com>
How long is a piece of string....right?
I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's
R-80 Tiger Moth.
Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?
I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.
I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how
much. I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I
live out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or
visiting local suppliers.
Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p
Jim.
--------
Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the
ground....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471
Message 9
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Back in 1972 it cost us $1500. Nope not a typo. We got our moneys worth many
many years ago. Just think about it like this. 15K now and in 20 years you'll
look back and say. "That was a bargain" And it was inexpensive too. Like
jack said, Just a two pack a day habit covers it. That statement was probably
true back in 1972 as well. Great way of looking at it.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446480#446480
Message 10
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And a new car was $3,000. House $18,000. I made $4.00 an hour.
Cigarettes were under a dollar. Coffee went from 10 cents to 25 . . .
Robert Gow,
President and DAO Manager.
Avionics Design Services Ltd.
Phn 705-527-6095
Cell 416-434-3393
Fax 705-527-6028
www.avionicsdesign.ca <http://www.avionicsdesign.ca/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: August-28-15 2:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost?
--> <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
Back in 1972 it cost us $1500. Nope not a typo. We got our moneys worth
many many years ago. Just think about it like this. 15K now and in 20
years you'll look back and say. "That was a bargain" And it was
inexpensive too. Like jack said, Just a two pack a day habit covers it.
That statement was probably true back in 1972 as well. Great way of
looking at it.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446480#446480
Message 11
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On building the 6 Big Piets, each builder paid $200 per month into a kitty
and then just bought what we needed. On this group build, we did not "draw"
a serial number until we the planes were ready for final paint, so we had no
idea whose plane we were working on or which one we would get. This kept the
quality the same, but did not leave a lot of room for scrounging. We spent
$6500 on each Corvair engine and really spared no expense on much of
anything. We welded steel fuselages, built wood wings and finished with
Stewart system for paint. We bought stuff like yellow tagged Marvel carbs,
New Grove wheels and brakes, powder coated all metal parts. All in all we
spent $16,000 on each plane and finished all but one (one guy quit the
project) in 6 years working every Monday night and one Saturday a month. We
had several EAA Chapter members that visited the project a lot so we would
not just let them stand around and watch, we put them to work. I know Matt L
worked at least 500 hours and others worked 200 to 300 hours each. This
extra help really paid off.
The $200 per month made it really easy to finance the Big Piet Project.
Barry
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BritishJim
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 12:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost?
--> <james@pieceofcakepr.com>
How long is a piece of string....right?
I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's
R-80 Tiger Moth.
Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet?
I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables.
I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how
much. I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I
live out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or
visiting local suppliers.
Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p
Jim.
--------
Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the
ground....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471
Message 12
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I would estimate my total cost at around $15,000 in 1995 prices but I would
guess I could still do it for about that amount now.
I just completely majored m A-65 and that ran me $5,500 to do it using 100%
top notch FAA Certified reconditioning shops and all new parts.
Mike C.
Ohio
Message 13
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My Excel ledger reads:
$12,574.70
I was lax in jotting everything down so I figure close to $15,000/ I used certified
wood for everything except for strut and landing gear. That wood came from
my "barn" stock I sawed on a homemade sawmill in the late
70's, All were laminated from 1/4" x 1" strips.
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2, 85 hours 7/3/15
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
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Attachments:
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank progress/welding..... |
Yes, I agree that it's a lot of fuel/weight. I have built substantially stronger
cabaine struts and will secure the tank with 4130 straps/turbuckles.
I wanted a three-hour capacity, since the ROTEC radial burns about 7gph. So I should
have 2 1/2 hours flying time plus reserve.
As a comparison, the Stearman tank in that upper center-section holds 46 gallons...!!!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
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One more thing, Jim.
In Canada, if you register the plane as an amateur built, you will be required
to have a couple of inspections performed by MDRA. Those inspections are not
free. Count on spending almost $2000 for the inspections.
If, however, you register the plane as a Basic Ultralight (which the Pietenpol
qualifies as,) then there are no inspections required, and thus, no fees for inspections.
The down side is that you're not allowed to carry passengers, except
under certain circumstances.
Bill C.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446506#446506
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Hey bill,
Is that a one time shot for you guys? Can you fork up the fees and do the inspections
later with any practicality?
Tools
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Great information, guys. Really helpful - and it certainly sounds like a fairly
cost-effective build - with 100000% ROI on the fun factor.
Those inspections in Canada will no doubt be a pain, but a necessary evil if you
want to carry passengers. I'd of course love to go the Basic Ultralight route,
but it's so restrictive.
If only TC would certify it as an Advanced Ultralight. That will be the day ;)
--------
Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446508#446508
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fuselage Questions |
Harvey; if you have the Pietenpol Corvair engine mount plans, note that the two
1-1/4"x.049 steel tubes that form the "bed" for the Corvair bed mount have caps
on their firewall ends with 5/16" holes. If you look at where those fall on
the fore end of the fuselage, I believe they line up with that 11-3/4" dimension
from the top of the upper longeron. That would locate a cross-brace to bolt
the bed tubes to the fuselage. If you're using a William Wynne mount, don't
bother with that cross-brace unless you just want to stiffen the front of the
fuselage, because his mount just uses the 4 standard corner mount points and
the bed 'floats'.
The 1-1/4" x 1-1/2" ash bearer support is used with the Ford engine, where the
two 1"x2-1/4" ash engine bearers are supported at their fuselage end by that bearer
support. If you're using the Corvair or Continental, there is really nothing
bearing on that bearer support so you don't need it. So you will need some
x-brace at the top of the fuselage, but depending on which engine you use,
it may go at the top or somewhere below that.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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