---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/29/15: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:33 AM - Re: Total Cost? (Bill Church) 2. 07:25 AM - Re: Total Cost? (tools) 3. 07:37 AM - Re: Total Cost? (tools) 4. 07:51 AM - Would This Corvair Work? (BritishJim) 5. 10:42 AM - Re: Would This Corvair Work? (taildrags) 6. 11:09 AM - Re: Would This Corvair Work? (BritishJim) 7. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: Would This Corvair Work? (Gary Boothe) 8. 03:19 PM - Flat spring gear (Andy Garrett) 9. 03:52 PM - Re: Flat spring gear (Steven Dortch) 10. 04:13 PM - Re: Flat spring gear (tools) 11. 08:03 PM - Re: Flat spring gear (taildrags) 12. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: Flat spring gear (Steven Dortch) 13. 08:32 PM - OT? Vortex generators (Steven Dortch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost? From: "Bill Church" Tools, There is a minimum requirement of a pre-cover inspection and a final inspection. These inspections must be performed, and passed before the permit to fly can be issued. The funny thing is that the very same aircraft can be built and registered as a Basic Ultralight without any mandatory inspections. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446513#446513 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost? From: "tools" People always ask... What plane, what tools, what skills... I'm coming to the conclusion, as least for folks like me, a good shrink or some psych courses on how to just make a decision and stick with it! This stuff just wouldn't be fun without a bunch seemingly life altering decisions... Scott and I are looking at our new project with a utility knife quivering in our hand, do we strip all the way down or just fix the damn thing and go fly? So British Jim, congratulations on asking the ONLY question in Piet history with NO controversy! I think the wildest thing is how consistent the build price is over time. Things that make you go hmmm?! Another universal truth, time or money. Buying a project to start out with will save money, but you can't pick up the phone and order it from spruce the minute you want it. Likely gonna cost time. For what it's worth, I bought mine complete for $12k. I believe that's about median for a good bird. Bad news, less than it costs to build. Good news, not much less and will keep that value for a LONG time with minimal effort. Great news, either way it is a FANTASTIC return on investment. Cheers, Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446514#446514 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost? From: "tools" People always ask... What plane, what tools, what skills... I'm coming to the conclusion, as least for folks like me, a good shrink or some psych courses on how to just make a decision and stick with it! This stuff just wouldn't be fun without a bunch seemingly life altering decisions... Scott and I are looking at our new project with a utility knife quivering in our hand, do we strip all the way down or just fix the damn thing and go fly? So British Jim, congratulations on asking the ONLY question in Piet history with NO controversy! I think the wildest thing is how consistent the build price is over time. Things that make you go hmmm?! Another universal truth, time or money. Buying a project to start out with will save money, but you can't pick up the phone and order it from spruce the minute you want it. Likely gonna cost time. For what it's worth, I bought mine complete for $12k. I believe that's about median for a good bird. Bad news, less than it costs to build. Good news, not much less and will keep that value for a LONG time with minimal effort. Great news, either way it is a FANTASTIC return on investment. Cheers, Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446515#446515 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Would This Corvair Work? From: "BritishJim" Even though my project is in its infancy....by chance...a Corvair has come up for sale about an hour from where I'm currently staying (I'm in Ontario for a month). Out in the boonies in Nova Scotia where I am based....you NEVER see them! I'd likely have to crate one across the country. [contents of advertisement copied below] Would this be suitable for a Piet? If so, what questions should I be asking the seller? I've called him and there's a bit of a backstory. He bought the engine from a guy in British Columbia who ran it for a few hours, but it's never actually been mounted to an airplane. He's turned it over each month with storage oil to keep it in good shape, and he claims it only needs a muffler to be complete. He can't get a medical anymore so is ditching the project he planned to put it in. Look like a good deal? I'm not yet at that point where I've educated myself about the ins and outs of engines (except having decided that I do want to go the Corvair route). Any guidance would be appreciated! Ad & pics follows below. J. --- CONVERTED CORVAIR ENGINE $5,000 AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE SALE 115 HP Complete rebuilt Corvair conversion engine, Magnafluxed crankshaft, new balanced pistons, new heads with valves and new camshaft reground for better low end torque sn: t05i7rd -alternator, starter, exhaust and mixutre controlled carb -machined 0200 engine mount attach bracket with rubber mounts -remote oil filter housing, carb filter, oil hoses, alternator plug warp drives three bladed high hp ground adjustable propeller sn: h6224 -prop protractor for blade angle adjustment -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446517#446517 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bs3_887.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bs2_905.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bs1_150.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Would This Corvair Work? From: "taildrags" Jim; you'll no doubt get a lot of different responses to your question about whether or not that Corvair would work, but there are just too many unknowns for anyone to tell you for sure. Not to discourage you from investigating the use of this engine, I'll just say that "It depends". First of all, disbelieve the claim that the engine produces 115HP, unless they tell you at what RPM they are claiming that power output. In the speed range that you'll direct-drive an aircraft propeller suitable for a Piet, it might be a 90-95HP engine. Next, while magnafluxing the crankshaft is a good first-step diagnostic tool for determining if it is sound, it doesn't do anything to the crank to make it special. If it has been nitrided and has had the fillet radii inspected, that would be a plus. Has the engine been fitted with a 5th bearing at the front? New pistons are great, but what are they? Cast or forged? New heads? From where? GM hasn't made these heads since the 1960s. What are the head numbers? There are many different combustion chamber configurations on Corvairs and some are more suitable for our conversions than others. New camshaft reground for better low-end torque? Okay, but what cam, what grind, and at what RPM does it make its low-end torque? A great cam in a car does not necessarily make a great cam in an airplane. Machined O-200 engine mount sounds good. Are any like this flying? You're trusting your life and your airplane to that mount. And what airframe had it been intended to mount onto? Distance from the firewall for an Air Camper is not the same as for a KR or for a Zenith, and neither is the thrust line position relative to the airframe. Rear-drive alternator. Has this setup been flown? I think you will get more guidance from others on this list as far as questions to ask the seller. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446518#446518 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Would This Corvair Work? From: "BritishJim" Great information - thank you! I'll wait for any more responses and then get a list of questions sent off. Appreciate your time. J. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446519#446519 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:57 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Would This Corvair Work? Jim, I agree with everything that Oscar says, without exception. In addition: 1) I note that it has been set up with a rear starter that extends quite a distance in the back of the engine. That, plus the mount setup looks like you would have a somewhat long-nosed installation. 2) The alternator appears to be the auto type...much heavier than needed for a Pietenpol. A small John Deere alternator works just fine. 3) I'm no engineer, but that mount just looks scary...too many variables, and, as Oscar said, has it been flown. The Corvair is a tray mounted engine, a lot like the Franklin engines, and those trays are easy to build. 4) Prop hub...what flight history does that design have? All things considered, depending on the price, you may still have a good buy. The peripherals that I just mentioned can all be changed to what is flight-proven. Although I fly with a William Wynne conversion, and fairly certain to be getting close to 100 hp at t/o rpm, not all flying Corvairs have that configuration....you would do just fine with less H/P. Try to find out about those pistons, and also the lifters (un-airworthy Chinese lifters have made a big presence). When you get some more answers, you may consider a direct conversation with William Wynne. He'll give you honest, thoughtful, educated opinions. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 10:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Would This Corvair Work? --> Jim; you'll no doubt get a lot of different responses to your question about whether or not that Corvair would work, but there are just too many unknowns for anyone to tell you for sure. Not to discourage you from investigating the use of this engine, I'll just say that "It depends". First of all, disbelieve the claim that the engine produces 115HP, unless they tell you at what RPM they are claiming that power output. In the speed range that you'll direct-drive an aircraft propeller suitable for a Piet, it might be a 90-95HP engine. Next, while magnafluxing the crankshaft is a good first-step diagnostic tool for determining if it is sound, it doesn't do anything to the crank to make it special. If it has been nitrided and has had the fillet radii inspected, that would be a plus. Has the engine been fitted with a 5th bearing at the front? New pistons are great, but what are they? Cast or forged? New heads? From where? GM hasn't made these heads since the 1960s. What are the head numbers? There are many different combustion chamber configurations on Corvairs and some are more suitable for our conversions than others. New camshaft reground for better low-end torque? Okay, but what cam, what grind, and at what RPM does it make its low-end torque? A great cam in a car does not necessarily make a great cam in an airplane. Machined O-200 engine mount sounds good. Are any like this flying? You're trusting your life and your airplane to that mount. And what airframe had it been intended to mount onto? Distance from the firewall for an Air Camper is not the same as for a KR or for a Zenith, and neither is the thrust line position relative to the airframe. Rear-drive alternator. Has this setup been flown? I think you will get more guidance from others on this list as far as questions to ask the seller. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446518#446518 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flat spring gear From: "Andy Garrett" So I was surprised to not find a single image of a Piet of flat spring gear anywhere on the web. I figured surely someone had re purposed an old set of Cessna 140 legs on one before. Seems simple enough, anyway. Not sure how it would look... -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446530#446530 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:02 PM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flat spring gear Andy, I am a fan of the Cessna (really Steve Whitman) Spring gear having had it on my 1959 Cessna 150. Simple, Rugged, does exactly what it is supposed to do. It made some of my harder "arrivals" look good. Might it be too stiff for a Piet? Blue Skies, Steve D -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flat spring gear From: "tools" I've got a dilapidated one of home built project called a sturgeon. Built by frank sturgeon around 1970. It's a grega/Piet class thing tail dragger with a c85, supposedly pre war wood taylorcraft wings, piper tail feathers and, you guessed it, c150 flat spring gear. It's a tandam open cockpit parasol with a welded steel tube fuse. Has the whole aluminum gear box bolted in there. It's VERY apart and easy to get pics of if anyone is interested. This came with my chief project and is in the "I might rebuild it some day" category. Had three or four owners and flew quite a bit, must have been a decent setup. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446535#446535 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flat spring gear From: "taildrags" Steve: Check your spelling. It's "Wittman", not "Whitman". As in Wittman Tailwind, Wittman Regional Airport, Sylvester "Steve" Wittman. Gol-dang Texans cain't spell fer nothin'. -Oscar -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446546#446546 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flat spring gear From: Steven Dortch You should listen to what I mean, not what I type! On Aug 29, 2015 10:05 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > Steve: Check your spelling. It's "Wittman", not "Whitman". As in Wittman > Tailwind, Wittman Regional Airport, Sylvester "Steve" Wittman. Gol-dang > Texans cain't spell fer nothin'. > > -Oscar > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446546#446546 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT? Vortex generators From: Steven Dortch Driving down the highway I passed a wind farm windmill blade 100 feet long, with vortex generators on it also toward the tip it had vortex generators and the trailing edge looked like shark teeth. has any Pietenpol had VG's and what do the shark teeth do? Blue Skies, Steve D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.