Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:21 AM - Re: Re: Ford Engine weights (Clif Dawson)
2. 05:09 AM - Re: Ford Engine weights (Steven Dortch)
3. 06:05 AM - Re: Ford Engine weights (John Cox)
4. 06:36 AM - Re: Ford Engine weights (Jack Philips)
5. 07:02 AM - Re: Ford Engine weights (Dan Yocum)
6. 08:12 AM - Re: Ford Engine weights (FritzW)
7. 08:16 AM - Re: Ford Engine weights (Steven Dortch)
8. 09:29 AM - Re: Re: Ford Engine weights (Michael Perez)
9. 09:40 AM - VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout? (Timothy Willis)
10. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Ford Engine weights (Steven Dortch)
11. 02:44 PM - Re: Ford Engine weights (FritzW)
12. 04:00 PM - video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
13. 04:13 PM - Re: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run (Steven Dortch)
14. 04:51 PM - Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout? (FritzW)
15. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout? (Steven Dortch)
16. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout? (Steven Dortch)
17. 07:58 PM - Re: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run (Steven Dortch)
18. 08:25 PM - 12th Annual Alternative Engine Round-Up and Experimental Aircraft Fly-in (Oscar Zuniga)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
According to the 1932 flying and glider mag the A is 244 lb. I'm assuming
dry wt
So you need to add water , plumbing and radiator to that. Would 16 lb be a
reasonable
estimate?
Clif
Old age and treachery will beat youth and enthusiasm
every time.
Someone
>
> Hi,
>
> Just off the top of my head, a Model A will be around 235 pound or 110kg.
> >
> GJ
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
Fritz, I did a little research when I first became interested in Pekin
poles. people have tried VW engines but no one has been successful. there
is something about the higher rpm, and the weight that makes it an
inefficient combination.
The A or T are actually pretty good if you ignore reliability. They make
their hp at a low rpm with lots of torque. A big prop and low speed make
that a happy combo. The old radials are somewhat similar.
Blue skies
Steve D
On Sep 2, 2015 11:19 PM, "FritzW" <fwagoner@zianet.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T
> conversions weigh?
>
> While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper
> and Sky Scout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues wit
h
> a Lambert.
>
> ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head:
> a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to
> be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep
it
> to myself [Wink]
>
> Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a
> pound or two off a Pietenpol.
>
> --------
> I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446714#446714
>
>
===========
===========
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===========
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
For weight and power, does anyone ever consider the Rotax 912iS with Fuel
Injection and FADEC or is that blasphemy?
John Cox
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:09 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Fritz, I did a little research when I first became interested in Pekin
> poles. people have tried VW engines but no one has been successful. there
> is something about the higher rpm, and the weight that makes it an
> inefficient combination.
>
> The A or T are actually pretty good if you ignore reliability. They make
> their hp at a low rpm with lots of torque. A big prop and low speed make
> that a happy combo. The old radials are somewhat similar.
>
> Blue skies
> Steve D
> On Sep 2, 2015 11:19 PM, "FritzW" <fwagoner@zianet.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T
>> conversions weigh?
>>
>> While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper
>> and Sky Scout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues wi
th
>> a Lambert.
>>
>> ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head
:
>> a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate t
o
>> be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep
it
>> to myself [Wink]
>>
>> Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed
a
>> pound or two off a Pietenpol.
>>
>> --------
>> I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446714#446714
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>
===========
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Ford Engine weights |
That is blasphemy. It is also sort of like teaching a pig to sing
=93 it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.
Why put a $20,000 engine on a $5,000 plane, that will still only go 75
mph without feeling like it=99s about to come apart?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights
For weight and power, does anyone ever consider the Rotax 912iS with
Fuel Injection and FADEC or is that blasphemy?
John Cox
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:09 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com
<mailto:steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> > wrote:
Fritz, I did a little research when I first became interested in Pekin
poles. people have tried VW engines but no one has been successful.
there is something about the higher rpm, and the weight that makes it an
inefficient combination.
The A or T are actually pretty good if you ignore reliability. They make
their hp at a low rpm with lots of torque. A big prop and low speed make
that a happy combo. The old radials are somewhat similar.
Blue skies
Steve D
On Sep 2, 2015 11:19 PM, "FritzW" <fwagoner@zianet.com
<mailto:fwagoner@zianet.com> > wrote:
<mailto:fwagoner@zianet.com> >
Hi All,
Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T
conversions weigh?
While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper
and Sky Scout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues
with a Lambert.
...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my
head: a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd
hate to be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so
I'll keep it to myself [Wink]
Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed
a pound or two off a Pietenpol.
--------
I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446714#446714
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
On 09/02/2015 11:13 PM, FritzW wrote:
> ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: a VERY
light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to be the
the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it to myself
[Wink]
Since you _didn't_ keep it to yourself, here's a reference to the UltraPiet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RagWing_RW1_Ultra-Piet
Of course, if you go this route, we won't help you since it's not a
Pietenpol Air Camper, nor is it a GN-1 Aircamper.
>
> Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a pound
or two off a Pietenpol.
Before you even start, stop second guessing everything. Build to the
plans and get started. Too many people on this list hem and haw and
second guess this or that and develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboard
for months on end and they have no product to show for it.
blah blah blah.
Just start building. Worry about the engine in a couple years.
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
...gentleman, I bid you farewell
[/quote]
...develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboard
for months on end and they have no product to show for it.
blah blah blah.
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com[/quote]
--------
Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446730#446730
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
Fritz, remember, thick skin.
There is a builder who is developing a jeep engine because he has it.
Since I love both jeeps and piets I hope it works.
By en large, high rpm engines either have to have reduction drives (added
weight, cost and complexity) or run at reduced hp. The corvairs may make
over 100 hp but it is at higher less efficient prop rpm. But they make
plenty of good hp at the efficient rpms. There are reduction drives for
corvairs to get all the hp.
There are successful Subaru's with reduction drives. One is even turbo
charged. In new Zealand some use a Toyota motor.
Most common engines
Small continentals. 65 to 100 hp.
Corvairs.
Model As.
They are most proven.
On Sep 3, 2015 9:05 AM, "Dan Yocum" <yocum137@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 09/02/2015 11:13 PM, FritzW wrote:
>
>
> > ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my
> head: a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd
> hate to be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll
> keep it to myself [Wink]
>
> Since you _didn't_ keep it to yourself, here's a reference to the
> UltraPiet:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RagWing_RW1_Ultra-Piet
>
> Of course, if you go this route, we won't help you since it's not a
> Pietenpol Air Camper, nor is it a GN-1 Aircamper.
>
> >
> > Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed
> a pound or two off a Pietenpol.
>
> Before you even start, stop second guessing everything. Build to the
> plans and get started. Too many people on this list hem and haw and
> second guess this or that and develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboard
> for months on end and they have no product to show for it.
>
> blah blah blah.
>
> Just start building. Worry about the engine in a couple years.
>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> yocum137@gmail.com
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
Fritz, it appears you have only been a member on this list for a few days. I hate
to see new listers come and go so quickly, but I understand your decision.
Feel free to contact me off list; if I maybe of assistance.
Message 9
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| Subject: | VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout? |
=8B
The aerovee VW engine is 160 lbs. plus oil and exhaust.
http://www.aeroconversions.com/products/aerovee/index.html
When comparing to the Model A or T, remember to add radiator, coolant and
hoses.
Big difference in torque as well as CG.
Tim in central TX
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
Come on guys. You just ran a guy off for asking questions. What is this
list for if not to get answers? Even to simple questions. If basic beginner
questions piss you off then perhaps you should not read the posting . Your
delete button should work. This list is like a bunch of guys setting
around drinking coffee. Everyone should have their say. Advice is offered
and the listener has to figure out what he will do with the info.
The advice to work instead of talk is good. Except when I am in a
situation where I can't work, IE away from my shop. That is a good time to
ask questions. I would have never considered latex paint except for this
list. Sent
The beechlist just successfully reset their rules on off topic
conversations. OT conversations were getting too political so they
established a list for political arguments.
Blue skies,
Steve D
On Sep 3, 2015 11:31 AM, "Michael Perez" <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Fritz, it appears you have only been a member on this list for a few days.
> I hate to see new listers come and go so quickly, but I understand your
> decision. Feel free to contact me off list; if I maybe of assistance.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine weights |
I've been reminded about thick skins and bad apples and how valuable this forum
is as a resource for Pietenpol information.
...dan yocum,
The only question I asked was how much Ford motors weigh so I could start thinking
about CG issues if I use a Lambert (a time honored Pietenpol engine option).
The only keyboard diarrhea I see is coming from you.
...what a buzz-kill
--------
Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446758#446758
Message 12
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| Subject: | video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run |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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run |
Yes. the LG looks similar to what I have on Mine. Piper cub gear a la
Grega. However, It does look "spindley" Those tires are also pretLty small.
That engine sounds good. I wonder if it ever flew.
That plane looks good from the video.
Blue skies,
Steve D
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>
> https://youtu.be/Zd0OtA9Du-k
>
>
> This is the only VW powered Pietenpol that I have ever seen running and
> there are no videos that I know of where this one
>
> is flying so that and 50 cents is worth about 50 cents.
>
>
> I must say that this =9CPietenpol=9D (it has a very light-w
eight looking
> landing gear which has the GN-1 attach configuration) looks
>
> like it was built with extreme attention to keeping it light but
who
> knows if it has flown or how well.
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> PS- for me, personally, the best bang for the buck and most reliable
> engine for the Pietenpol is the A-65 thru 0-200 series engines.
>
> I personally love the sound of a Model A Ford engine and I think the
> Corvair engines sound great but for me, personally..I have 18 ye
ars
>
> of Pietenpol flying time behind an A-65 and trust it more than most of th
e
> dogs I=99ve had and I really love and trust dogs. (Except when
>
> you leave a pork chop on your dinner plate and run to the kitchen for a
> napkin or take a bathroom breakJ ! )
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout? |
I've got two RevMaster 2100D's gathering dust in the hangar. (they're for sale
BTW) One's NOS with all the bells and whistles and weighs right at 200 lbs w/o
oil, prop, exhaust.
It's the wrong engine for a Pietenpol (no easy way to put a redrive on it) but
the weights not so far off that you'd need a crazy long motor mount.
--------
Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446768#446768
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout? |
It is interesting that they have not been very successful on Piets. The 1/2
VWs work on smaller planes (Ultra Piet) and the full VWs work on Soneris,
KR2s Volksplanes, and a host of other low and slow planes. But they have
not been successful on Piets or The Bower's fly baby. Two planes with
similar performance envelopes (and lots of drag)
Oh well, I have a Continental A65.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:51 PM, FritzW <fwagoner@zianet.com> wrote:
>
> I've got two RevMaster 2100D's gathering dust in the hangar. (they're for
> sale BTW) One's NOS with all the bells and whistles and weighs right at 2
00
> lbs w/o oil, prop, exhaust.
>
> It's the wrong engine for a Pietenpol (no easy way to put a redrive on it
)
> but the weights not so far off that you'd need a crazy long motor mount.
>
> --------
> I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446768#446768
>
>
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===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout? |
It is interesting that they have not been very successful on Piets. The 1/2
VWs work on smaller planes (Ultra Piet) and the full VWs work on Soneris,
KR2s Volksplanes, and a host of other low and slow planes. But they have
not been successful on Piets or The Bower's fly baby. Two planes with
similar performance envelopes (and lots of drag)
Oh well, I have a Continental A65.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:51 PM, FritzW <fwagoner@zianet.com> wrote:
>
> I've got two RevMaster 2100D's gathering dust in the hangar. (they're for
> sale BTW) One's NOS with all the bells and whistles and weighs right at 2
00
> lbs w/o oil, prop, exhaust.
>
> It's the wrong engine for a Pietenpol (no easy way to put a redrive on it
)
> but the weights not so far off that you'd need a crazy long motor mount.
>
> --------
> I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446768#446768
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run |
They are e speaking Spanish. Could be anywhere.
Blue Skies.
On Sep 3, 2015 6:13 PM, "Steven Dortch" <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes. the LG looks similar to what I have on Mine. Piper cub gear a la
> Grega. However, It does look "spindley" Those tires are also pretLty smal
l.
>
> That engine sounds good. I wonder if it ever flew.
>
> That plane looks good from the video.
>
> Blue skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
> Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> https://youtu.be/Zd0OtA9Du-k
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the only VW powered Pietenpol that I have ever seen running and
>> there are no videos that I know of where this one
>>
>> is flying so that and 50 cents is worth about 50 cents.
>>
>>
>>
>> I must say that this =9CPietenpol=9D (it has a very light-
weight looking
>> landing gear which has the GN-1 attach configuration) looks
>>
>> like it was built with extreme attention to keeping it light but
who
>> knows if it has flown or how well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> PS- for me, personally, the best bang for the buck and most reliable
>> engine for the Pietenpol is the A-65 thru 0-200 series engines.
>>
>> I personally love the sound of a Model A Ford engine and I think the
>> Corvair engines sound great but for me, personally..I have 18 y
ears
>>
>> of Pietenpol flying time behind an A-65 and trust it more than most of
>> the dogs I=99ve had and I really love and trust dogs. (Except w
hen
>>
>> you leave a pork chop on your dinner plate and run to the kitchen for a
>> napkin or take a bathroom breakJ ! )
>>
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | 12th Annual Alternative Engine Round-Up and Experimental |
Aircraft Fly-in
>From Pat Panzera:
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Friends=2C=0A
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Saturday=2C September 26th is the big day.
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Last year we moved our annual event to Southern California=2C=0A
to a beautiful non-towered airport that's easy to get to in French Valley -
near=0A
Temecula.
The paved runway is wide and long for the fast-glass=2C and the=0A
airport is low-and-slow friendly- being the home airport of EAA Chapter 127
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known for building a beautiful=2C Corvair-powered Pietenpol.
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The website has been updated with the most current=0A
information=2C and a plea for you to RSVP if you are planning to attend the
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casual dinner on Saturday night: http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.htm
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Thanks!
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And I humbly apologize if you get this message more than=0A
once. It just means that you and I are on multiple email lists together.
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Oh yeah! PLEASE forward this message to anyone you think=0A
might be interested in=2C especially email groups that are about homebuilt
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aircraft.
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Pat Panzera=0A
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editor@contactmagazine.com
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Our Website: www.contactmagazine.com=0A
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