---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/17/15: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:52 AM - Re: Fuel tank progress/welding..... (aerocarjake) 2. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol (Steven Dortch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel tank progress/welding..... From: "aerocarjake" Hello WF2.... Thx, I am using 0.063 5052 sheet for the tank. Since I hire out the welding I am not exactly sure which wire Mike (Ready Weld) is using with his TIG welding torch. Mike has been welding professionally for over 20 years so I yield those decisions to his talent. Ordering an additional sump (from a Stearman) today......... (progress one day at a time!) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447160#447160 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ethanol From: Steven Dortch Update on E85. With current low oil prices. Texas and Oklahoma e10 gas is 1.93 to 2.20per gallon. E85 is $2.47. My guess is that Ethanol base price is less affected by oil prices. They also have fixed costs. At my present situation, I don't want to experiment at a definite loss. Blue skies, Steve D On Sep 16, 2015 9:57 AM, "Steven Dortch" wrote: > In my Bonanza, I run 100LL in the wing tanks. If available I run unleaded > MOGAS in the AUX (Baggage) tank. the system is a pressure carb and pumps > 13 Gallons to the carb and returns 3.5 gallons to the left tank. So I end > up with a Mix in the left tank and Do about 1/2 of my cruising on the aux > tank. > > The old bird (1948) seems to prefer the autofuel. the 100 LL keeps me > trying to keep the lead burned off of the plugs. > > Note! 100LL is very stable. It can burn cleanly after 1 to two years in > good storage. The modern MOGAS is not very stable. It goes bad (separates > into varnish and other chemicals) after a couple of months. When I put my > Bonanza in storage I put 100 LL in all three tanks. > > Just a point of reference. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Kip Gardner > wrote: > >> I imagine vehicle age makes a difference. I have a 2001 Toyota Sienna >> van that is supposed to make 26mpg & it stays pretty consistently at 21 on >> 10% EtOH gas. I may try Mac's experiment, the premium differential around >> here is less than 25%. >> >> Kip Gardner >> >> On Sep 16, 2015, at 9:30 AM, Steven Dortch >> wrote: >> >> New car or old? My 2013 Ford Explorer only gets about 2 mpg better on >> 100% gas. It's electronic brain adjusts the system to digest the 10% >> ethanol. Indeed, it is a flex fuel vehicle and can run E85 (from 51% to 85% >> ethanol.) I have not run it yet but will give it a try and will follow the >> fuel mileage. I will then run some E10 and then run 100% gas. >> >> In Texas there is only 10% ethanol or E85. In Oklahoma you have a choice >> of all three at some places. >> >> According to a Wikipedia list on ethanol (written by a very pro ethanol >> writer) the fuel system cannot have unprotected aluminum, magnesium, and >> rubber. >> >> Blue Skies, >> Steve D. >> >> On Sep 15, 2015 10:17 PM, wrote: >> >>> Oscar-- >>> I had heard that ethanol only degraded fuel mileage (the only thing I am >>> really interested in for my pickup) a relatively small amount--but someone >>> in my Model A club said it was a bigger deal than I thought. So I ran a >>> test--a thousand miles each with E10 gas vs non-ethanol high test gas. And >>> I got 26% BETTER mileage with the non-alcohol gas. So now whenever I can >>> get non-alcohol gas for less than about a 25% price premium, I get that. >>> Cheers, Mac in Newport >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"John Cox" >>> *To: *pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> *Sent: *Saturday, September 12, 2015 8:30:13 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ethanol >>> >>> Great Read. >>> >>> John Cox >>> Aurora, OR >>> On Sep 12, 2015 11:10, "taildrags" wrote: >>> >>>> taildrags@hotmail.com> >>>> >>>> Douwe; while I don't claim to be "in the know", as a fire protection >>>> engineer I do have some knowledge of fuels and I can read a table of >>>> physical properties of fuels. Strictly from the "fuel as energy" >>>> standpoint, ethanol has an energy content of about 11,590 Btu per lb and >>>> gasoline (including 100LL avgas) has an energy content of about 18,700 Btu >>>> per lb. This means when you're burning a blend of gasoline and ethanol, >>>> you're leaving some power on the table. Here in Oregon, regulations >>>> mandate the sale of "E10" in some areas of the state and at certain times >>>> of the year. This is a blend of 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol and it >>>> results in a fuel with somewhere between 3% and 4% less energy than >>>> straight gas. To put it in practical terms, but greatly oversimplifying, >>>> your engine that produces 100HP running on avgas will only produce 96-97HP >>>> on E10 mogas. Granted, the E10 will cost quite a bit less and that's the >>>> attraction of it. As you've read from other posts here, ther! >>>> e are downsides and one of them is the fact that ethanol is >>>> incompatible with a lot of materials. >>>> >>>> Another downside is the potential for vapor lock. Ethanol has a lower >>>> boiling point than straight gasoline, so it is less tolerant of high >>>> temperatures under the cowling and it can vaporize in the fuel lines or >>>> anywhere it's close to a hot surface. A vapor pocket or bubble in the fuel >>>> system can stop the flow of fuel... "vapor lock". The problem is increased >>>> in the summer, of course, because when we land with a nice warmed-up engine >>>> and taxi over to the fuel pump and shut down, the areas inside the cowling >>>> become heat-soaked and since there is no flow of cooler fuel in the lines >>>> when the engine is shut down, the fuel can vaporize and lock the system, >>>> making startup more difficult. >>>> >>>> The reason why you don't see cars sitting all over the shoulders of the >>>> road with vapor lock is because most vehicles now are fuel injected or they >>>> have fuel pumps that deliver the fuel under pressure, not gravity, and the >>>> boiling point of a liquid increases as the pressure increases. You know >>>> this from your camping experiences when you try to boil water while camping >>>> up in the mountains. It boils at a lower temperature up where the >>>> atmospheric pressure is lower, and your beans never cook! Of course this >>>> same effect means that flying at higher altitudes lowers the boiling point >>>> of fuel that contains ethanol, but most Piets fly down pretty low where >>>> that isn't a big factor. More than you wanted to know, I'm sure ;o) >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Oscar Zuniga >>>> Medford, OR >>>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >>>> A75 power >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447027#447027 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ========== >>>> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>>> ========== >>>> FORUMS - >>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> b Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> ========== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>> >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com/ ">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.