Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:14 AM - Re: Re: Wing Heavy (Peter Johnson)
2. 03:16 AM - Re: Wing Heavy (simmor2)
3. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Wing Heavy (Jack Philips)
4. 07:43 AM - Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly (Jack Textor)
5. 08:57 AM - Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly (Jack Philips)
6. 10:05 AM - Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly (oldbird)
7. 02:28 PM - Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly (Barry Davis)
8. 02:58 PM - Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly (aerocarjake)
9. 03:57 PM - Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly (tools)
10. 04:05 PM - Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly (Jeff Boatright)
11. 08:08 PM - Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly (taildrags)
Message 1
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Oscar,
Very timely, I have just put my wings on the fuse and will be doing the
rigging next.
Cheers
Peter
On 15/10/2015, 3:54 PM, "taildrags"
<owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of
taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Like Grandpa used to say, "do it right the first time and you won't have
>to do it again". So don't go turning the fork ends or adjusting anything
>without having a plan, or you may end up making things worse ;o)
>
>You can spend about an hour in the hangar taking some simple measurements
>that will tell you a lot about how the wing is rigged, and you won't have
>to change any of the current rigging to find out what you've got. What
>you need is a pencil and piece of paper, a level, and a straightedge
>that's about 5 feet long (the wing chord is 60" and you need something
>stiff and straight that will span the wing chord). A straight stick or
>board will do, so will a mop handle, a piece of tubing or pipe, or
>anything similar if it's the right length. If you're going to measure
>the wing washout, you might as well take the time to level the airplane
>so you won't have to be adding and subtracting angles and decimal degrees
>to find out what you want to know, which is the wing washout (difference
>in angle of incidence from wing root to wing tip). If you start with the
>fuselage level at "zero", all the readings you take can be recorded
>directly and you'll know your wing incidence.
>
>Secure the aircraft systems (fuel off, mags off) and chock the wheels.
>Raise the tail onto something steady and block it up till the aircraft is
>in the level attitude. Using your level, measure the top longeron to
>make sure it is level. You can use a bubble level, but a digital level
>is better. I just downloaded a combination bubble and digital level app
>for iPhone for free and it looks very accurate. You could use something
>like that and get very accurate readings in seconds, and of course a
>bubble level won't give you a readout in degrees ;o) Harbor Freight also
>has a very handy angle finder for $4.99 (their part no. 34214) that is
>reasonably accurate and also has a magnetic side to it so you can stick
>it to metal tubing or surfaces to measure their angles. Accurate to
>about 1/2 degree.
>
>With the aircraft level and steady, take your straightedge and place it
>across the bottom of one wing at the root. Put your level on the
>straightedge and read the angle, then record it. Move outboard about
>6-1/2 feet and measure and record your reading there. Outboard from
>there you have aileron to deal with but it's pretty important to get a
>good reading out near the wingtip to see what the angle of incidence is
>out there. You should secure the control stick with the seatbelt to hold
>the ailerons level and measure the incidence out at the tip and record
>that value.
>
>Repeat this for the other wing and then sit down to figure out what
>you've got. There is no hurry, and you want to think about what you're
>looking at before you go tweaking the wing brace cables or adjusting the
>fork ends. Piets being what they are, your airplane won't hurry you or
>go anywhere while you do your figuring, so take your time.
>
>The first thing to look at is if either of your wings has any washout
>rigged into it at all. Some builders rig them flat and square with
>little or no washout and little or no dihedral... just the 2" of
>incidence that results from the front cabanes being longer than the rear
>ones. When you look at the wing incidence from root to tip, you should
>be seeing decreasing angles because you want the root to stall before the
>tip does and that means the root should be at a greater angle of
>incidence and the tip should be less, or the angle should be "washed out"
>as you go outboard from the root. You probably will not find "wash in".
>
>The next thing to look at is the difference in wing incidence between
>port and starboard wings. If you see numbers that are more than a degree
>or two off between the same stations on opposite wings, you may have
>found the source of the wing heaviness. Don't go changing anything yet
>though. Once you take these few simple measurements, there are plenty of
>people on this list who know what the numbers should look like and can
>tell you the simplest way to adjust things to get your airplane back in
>rig. If you need to start tweaking the lift struts and forks, there are
>some helpful tips you should know but now is not the time... you need to
>check a few things first and then see what you've got. Work through this
>the right way and your airplane should fly level in cruise, in smooth
>air, without a heavy wing. Let us know what you find when you check the
>ailerons left and right with the stick centered and secured in place.
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
Message 2
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Just a thought of leveling.
When I built my plane I was never satisfied with the accuracy of the digital levels
that didn't cost $$$$ when it came to leveling the longerons.
After digging a bit I found out about using a single vessel water level.
It allowed me to walk all through the garage leveling the fuselage easily from
from to rear. That is some where around a 15ft. stretch.
If you use a metric scale for matching heights front to rear, the value of 1mm
over 15ft or even 6ft is extremely accurate. I'm sure you can do the math.
Just a thought!
No I'm not nuts.
Rich
Zenith 601XL
Flying soon!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447962#447962
Message 3
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Also check to see if the wings are square with the fuselage. Measure the
distance from the tailpost to the wingtip on each side. They should be the
same, within 1/16".
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 12:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Heavy
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Like Grandpa used to say, "do it right the first time and you won't have to
do it again". So don't go turning the fork ends or adjusting anything
without having a plan, or you may end up making things worse ;o)
You can spend about an hour in the hangar taking some simple measurements
that will tell you a lot about how the wing is rigged, and you won't have to
change any of the current rigging to find out what you've got. What you
need is a pencil and piece of paper, a level, and a straightedge that's
about 5 feet long (the wing chord is 60" and you need something stiff and
straight that will span the wing chord). A straight stick or board will do,
so will a mop handle, a piece of tubing or pipe, or anything similar if it's
the right length. If you're going to measure the wing washout, you might as
well take the time to level the airplane so you won't have to be adding and
subtracting angles and decimal degrees to find out what you want to know,
which is the wing washout (difference in angle of incidence from wing root
to wing tip). If you start with the fuselage level at "zero", all the
readings you take can be recorded directly and you'll know your wing
incidence.
Secure the aircraft systems (fuel off, mags off) and chock the wheels.
Raise the tail onto something steady and block it up till the aircraft is in
the level attitude. Using your level, measure the top longeron to make sure
it is level. You can use a bubble level, but a digital level is better. I
just downloaded a combination bubble and digital level app for iPhone for
free and it looks very accurate. You could use something like that and get
very accurate readings in seconds, and of course a bubble level won't give
you a readout in degrees ;o) Harbor Freight also has a very handy angle
finder for $4.99 (their part no. 34214) that is reasonably accurate and also
has a magnetic side to it so you can stick it to metal tubing or surfaces to
measure their angles. Accurate to about 1/2 degree.
With the aircraft level and steady, take your straightedge and place it
across the bottom of one wing at the root. Put your level on the
straightedge and read the angle, then record it. Move outboard about 6-1/2
feet and measure and record your reading there. Outboard from there you
have aileron to deal with but it's pretty important to get a good reading
out near the wingtip to see what the angle of incidence is out there. You
should secure the control stick with the seatbelt to hold the ailerons level
and measure the incidence out at the tip and record that value.
Repeat this for the other wing and then sit down to figure out what you've
got. There is no hurry, and you want to think about what you're looking at
before you go tweaking the wing brace cables or adjusting the fork ends.
Piets being what they are, your airplane won't hurry you or go anywhere
while you do your figuring, so take your time.
The first thing to look at is if either of your wings has any washout rigged
into it at all. Some builders rig them flat and square with little or no
washout and little or no dihedral... just the 2" of incidence that results
from the front cabanes being longer than the rear ones. When you look at
the wing incidence from root to tip, you should be seeing decreasing angles
because you want the root to stall before the tip does and that means the
root should be at a greater angle of incidence and the tip should be less,
or the angle should be "washed out" as you go outboard from the root. You
probably will not find "wash in".
The next thing to look at is the difference in wing incidence between port
and starboard wings. If you see numbers that are more than a degree or two
off between the same stations on opposite wings, you may have found the
source of the wing heaviness. Don't go changing anything yet though. Once
you take these few simple measurements, there are plenty of people on this
list who know what the numbers should look like and can tell you the
simplest way to adjust things to get your airplane back in rig. If you need
to start tweaking the lift struts and forks, there are some helpful tips you
should know but now is not the time... you need to check a few things first
and then see what you've got. Work through this the right way and your
airplane should fly level in cruise, in smooth air, without a heavy wing.
Let us know what you find when you check the ailerons left and right with
the stick centered and secured in place.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447956#447956
Message 4
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| Subject: | Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly |
Hello Piet friends! Finally got the cockpit varnish to my satisfaction,
moving forward! Planning on leaving the sides off till the last minute.
The panels, turtle-deck and firewall are not glued. Was thinking I will
install, pedals, rudder bar and bell-crank first with AN hardware. Then get
it on the gear with hardware store nuts and bolts. Then on to gluing the
turtle-deck and panels. Install the nose tank. Then cut and install the
comings. If I remember Oscar cut a small panel between the rudder pedals,
good idea? Any thoughts or ideas are certainly welcome. Took my first
passenger up, Granddaughter, Hannah.
Thanks!
Jack Textor
West Des Moines, IA
515-490-5177
Message 5
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| Subject: | Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly |
Looks really nice, Jack.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 10:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly
Hello Piet friends! Finally got the cockpit varnish to my satisfaction,
moving forward! Planning on leaving the sides off till the last minute.
The panels, turtle-deck and firewall are not glued. Was thinking I will
install, pedals, rudder bar and bell-crank first with AN hardware. Then get
it on the gear with hardware store nuts and bolts. Then on to gluing the
turtle-deck and panels. Install the nose tank. Then cut and install the
comings. If I remember Oscar cut a small panel between the rudder pedals,
good idea? Any thoughts or ideas are certainly welcome. Took my first
passenger up, Granddaughter, Hannah.
Thanks!
Jack Textor
West Des Moines, IA
515-490-5177
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly |
Beautiful work, Jack. I hope I can catch up with you.
Semih
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447981#447981
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| Subject: | Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly |
Looks Great!
Barry Davis
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 10:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly
Hello Piet friends! Finally got the cockpit varnish to my satisfaction,
moving forward! Planning on leaving the sides off till the last minute.
The panels, turtle-deck and firewall are not glued. Was thinking I will
install, pedals, rudder bar and bell-crank first with AN hardware. Then get
it on the gear with hardware store nuts and bolts. Then on to gluing the
turtle-deck and panels. Install the nose tank. Then cut and install the
comings. If I remember Oscar cut a small panel between the rudder pedals,
good idea? Any thoughts or ideas are certainly welcome. Took my first
passenger up, Granddaughter, Hannah.
Thanks!
Jack Textor
West Des Moines, IA
515-490-5177
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly |
What a thing of beauty - a true piece of art.
Not sure about what assembly sequence would work best for a wood fuselage as I
am building the steel-tube version. I imagine adding the plywood sides would be
one of the LAST things you would do.
I made my instrument panel removable so I can work on it as a unit on the bench,
and then install it after the turtle deck is completed. I see you have a hatch
similar to Mike Cuy's approach.
Beautiful grain on your wood sides/structure.....
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447988#447988
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| Subject: | Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly |
Having basically done it exactly opposite to that, I can fairly positively say
it sounds like a pretty good plan to me!
However, having done it.... I can also attest to the fact should you forget something,
not all is lost as it can be done the other way around, just quite a bit
more tedious.
In my case it was a repair that had me installing the cockpit floor last and then
installing all the fittings and controls, so I didn't really have any choice.
Love your work, but that grand daughter is really something! I have a similar
picture of my daughter about that age in my fathers Hatz when it was about that
far along. She was in the front seat and her legs reached the back seat rudder
pedals perfectly. Priceless photo!
Cheers,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447990#447990
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| Subject: | Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly |
Looks great! Congratulations!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447991#447991
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| Subject: | Re: Order of Things, Fuselage Assembly |
Jack: it wasn't me that installed an observation/access port in the floor... it
was Kevin "Axel" Purtee. I just did a quick check and there is at least one
good picture of his observation port on Westcoastpiet. I really wish I had had
one on mine when I had to replace the fuel shutoff valve and actuating cable.
It is a royal pain working down under there, folded over the front cockpit
coaming or -worse yet- committing to a full slide down into the front cockpit
head-first with feet tangled up in the cabane X-bracing and then needing a tool
you don't have. You will exercise your full 'street slang' vocabulary trying
to get back out to get a tool and then getting back in. I'll bet I did it 100
times, dropping a small washer or cotter pin and having to get another, needing
a thin washer but only having a standard thickness one down there, needing
the dykes, needing to take a part back off and put just a slight bend in it
in the vise, etc. etc.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447997#447997
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