---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/05/15: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 11:54 AM - Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution Today! (Matt Dralle) 1. 03:18 AM - Re: Re: Finally on the Gear! (Jack) 2. 03:58 AM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Tim White) 3. 04:07 AM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Tim White) 4. 04:17 AM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Tim White) 5. 04:26 AM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Tim White) 6. 04:29 AM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Tim White) 7. 05:51 AM - Re: Wheel alignment.... (AircamperN11MS) 8. 08:34 AM - Re: Is this meant to be a Piet? (Ray Krause) 9. 08:41 AM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Ray Krause) 10. 08:57 AM - Re: Is this meant to be a Piet? (wheelharp) 11. 09:25 AM - Re: Is this meant to be a Piet? (wheelharp) 12. 12:55 PM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (womenfly2) 13. 04:50 PM - Re: Wheel alignment.... (TriScout) 14. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Is this meant to be a Piet? (Ray Krause) 15. 07:42 PM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Bill Church) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:49 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finally on the Gear! From: Jack Bill thanks once again for your thoughtful info... Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Nov 4, 2015, at 8:52 PM, "Bill Church" wrote: > > > Here's a link to a previous discussion on toe-in/toe-out. At the end there's an article from the old SAA magazine "To Fly." > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=102433&highlight=toein > > Bill C. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448747#448747 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: Tim White they were On 11/4/2015 4:55 PM, Charles N. Campbell wrote: > Next time make sure the cargo straps are on a rib location. C > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Tim White > wrote: > > Two weeks ago I glued (T-88) 1/16" Okoume plywood to my leading > edge (trammeled with ribs, compression struts and leading edge > glued). I used cargo straps around each rib and clamps on the > font edge to secure it while curing. Brought the wing to Florida > for the winter and found the plywood was sunken or wavy between > several of the ribs (picture). The other wing seems OK with a > slight bulge on the plywood away from the leading edge. I am at a > loss to determine how this happened unless I got the cargo straps > too tight. I assume this deformation will transmit through the > fabric (not having covered an airplane before). I want to remove > it and try over. Any ideas of what went wrong? Any ideas on how > to remove it? > > Tim White > Ocklawaha, Fl > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: Tim White Jack, It is 90 degrees with up to 100% humidity (some places setting records). I was very careful to put the straps directly on the ribs. I'm going back to Ohio for the holidays, think I'll let them sit until the heat and humidity go down in January. Thanks much for your help. Tim On 11/4/2015 9:17 AM, Jack Philips wrote: > > Tim, > > Were the cargo straps directly on top of the ribs? If so, I don't think they could have caused the deformation. You said you glued them two weeks ago and then moved them to Florida. How long have they been in Florida? I suspect that Florida is the culprit. Being very humid, the Florida air will make the plywood swell and deform between the ribs. Can you move the wing(s) into a heated space and let them acclimate for a couple of weeks? If so, I expect you'll find that they smooth right out. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim White > Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 8:54 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge > > Two weeks ago I glued (T-88) 1/16" Okoume plywood to my leading edge (trammeled with ribs, compression struts and leading edge glued). I used cargo straps around each rib and clamps on the font edge to secure it while curing. Brought the wing to Florida for the winter and found the plywood was sunken or wavy between several of the ribs (picture). > The other wing seems OK with a slight bulge on the plywood away from the leading edge. I am at a loss to determine how this happened unless I got the cargo straps too tight. I assume this deformation will transmit through the fabric (not having covered an airplane before). I want to remove it and try over. Any ideas of what went wrong? Any ideas on how to remove it? > > Tim White > Ocklawaha, Fl > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: Tim White Lorenzo, Thanks for the tip. I'm going to let it sit for a while until the heat and humidity goes down and see what happens. Might still have to take it off. Tim On 11/4/2015 9:20 AM, larharris2 Harris wrote: > How to remove it: Heat the plywood surface over a glue joint with a > hot iron. The joint will separate like peeling a post-it note. > > Lorenzo > > > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > From: aa5flyer@gmail.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge > > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 08:53:47 -0500 > > > > Two weeks ago I glued (T-88) 1/16" Okoume plywood to my leading edge > > (trammeled with ribs, compression struts and leading edge glued). I > > used cargo straps around each rib and clamps on the font edge to secure > > it while curing. Brought the wing to Florida for the winter and found > > the plywood was sunken or wavy between several of the ribs (picture). > > The other wing seems OK with a slight bulge on the plywood away from > the > > leading edge. I am at a loss to determine how this happened unless I > > got the cargo straps too tight. I assume this deformation will transmit > > through the fabric (not having covered an airplane before). I want to > > remove it and try over. Any ideas of what went wrong? Any ideas on how > > to remove it? > > > > Tim White > > Ocklawaha, Fl ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: Tim White Think I'm going to wait until the heat and humidity goes down. Meanwhile, I'll work on the center section. Thanks to all who replied. Tim White On 11/5/2015 2:09 AM, Semih Oksay wrote: > I looked at the photo carefully. The plywood was glued correctly. This > is not a cargo strap location error. It seems like moisture problem. I > have been to Florida and know about the humidity. Heating is a > solution but I do not recommend local heating with a gun. A few days > in a dry room should make it fine. If you have a problem about drying > the room, please contact me. In addition, never varnish one side of a > thin plywood or veneer and forget it. It curves towards the varnished > side because one day moisture swells the unvarnished side. > > my 2 cents > > Happy landings > > Semih > > 2015-11-05 1:05 GMT+02:00 Jack >: > > Charles I used brads on mine... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 4, 2015, at 3:55 PM, "Charles N. Campbell" > > wrote: > >> Next time make sure the cargo straps are on a rib location. C >> >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Tim White > > wrote: >> >> Two weeks ago I glued (T-88) 1/16" Okoume plywood to my >> leading edge (trammeled with ribs, compression struts and >> leading edge glued). I used cargo straps around each rib and >> clamps on the font edge to secure it while curing. Brought >> the wing to Florida for the winter and found the plywood was >> sunken or wavy between several of the ribs (picture). The >> other wing seems OK with a slight bulge on the plywood away >> from the leading edge. I am at a loss to determine how this >> happened unless I got the cargo straps too tight. I assume >> this deformation will transmit through the fabric (not having >> covered an airplane before). I want to remove it and try >> over. Any ideas of what went wrong? Any ideas on how to >> remove it? >> >> Tim White >> Ocklawaha, Fl >> >> > > > -- > Semih Oksay ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: Tim White Jack, If waiting for heat and humidity to go down doesn't work, I'll try it. Thanks, Tim On 11/4/2015 2:23 PM, Jack wrote: > > Tim just an idea... If you have not varnished yet, wet the underside of one bay with a cloth and see how it dries. Maybe heat with an iron??? > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > >> On Nov 4, 2015, at 7:53 AM, Tim White wrote: >> >> Two weeks ago I glued (T-88) 1/16" Okoume plywood to my leading edge (trammeled with ribs, compression struts and leading edge glued). I used cargo straps around each rib and clamps on the font edge to secure it while curing. Brought the wing to Florida for the winter and found the plywood was sunken or wavy between several of the ribs (picture). The other wing seems OK with a slight bulge on the plywood away from the leading edge. I am at a loss to determine how this happened unless I got the cargo straps too tight. I assume this deformation will transmit through the fabric (not having covered an airplane before). I want to remove it and try over. Any ideas of what went wrong? Any ideas on how to remove it? >> >> Tim White >> Ocklawaha, Fl >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheel alignment.... From: "AircamperN11MS" Excellent article Bill, great input. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448770#448770 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:27 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is this meant to be a Piet? I think this would certainly be an act of kindness. Maybe some of our expert s that we rely on could help him. I think Scott L or Oscar Z would be the be st sources. I fear that the maximum weight might be the main culprit. It see ms that the metal used, as well as the "lumber" might have resulted in excee ding the MTOW, whatever that might be. If it might get off the ground with h is power source, we don't want him to hurt himself, or others. He certainly is to be admired! I've been to rather "backward" countries and could not even imagine trying such a project. His ambition puts me to shame , for sure. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Nov 4, 2015, at 10:57 PM, Semih Oksay wrote: > > Looks ok compared to some homebuilts. I would check cg very carefully =8B and the power plant? Obviously a Piet inspired project. Can we reach and warn him about at least cg if all else is fine? > > Semih > > 2015-11-05 0:04 GMT+02:00 The real bike Mike : >> He might save some weight by taking the sprockets off the motorcycle whee ls. >> >> >> >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack >> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 1:41 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is this meant to be a Piet? >> >> >> >> A GN-1...obviously the town stud... >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> Jack Textor >> >> >> On Nov 4, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Steven Dortch wro te: >> >> Built to plans. Heck I may try the exhaust shield. >> >> On Nov 4, 2015 2:20 PM, "David" wrote: >> >> http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/22/africa/asmelash-zeferu-plane-ethiopia/?iid= ob_article_footer_expansion&iref=obinsite >> >> >> > > > > -- > Semih Oksay ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:18 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge Does this mean that you may fly only in hot, dry areas? Maybe the leading ed ges should be installed only during maximum humidity conditions? I live in h ot, dry California where I installed my leading edges. What will happen if I fly back to Brodhead? Assuming, of course, that I would/could do such a th ing? Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Nov 5, 2015, at 4:07 AM, Tim White wrote: > > > Jack, > > It is 90 degrees with up to 100% humidity (some places setting records). I was very careful to put the straps directly on the ribs. I'm going back to Ohio for the holidays, think I'll let them sit until the heat and humidity g o down in January. Thanks much for your help. > > Tim > >> On 11/4/2015 9:17 AM, Jack Philips wrote: s.com> >> >> Tim, >> >> Were the cargo straps directly on top of the ribs? If so, I don't think t hey could have caused the deformation. You said you glued them two weeks a go and then moved them to Florida. How long have they been in Florida? I s uspect that Florida is the culprit. Being very humid, the Florida air will m ake the plywood swell and deform between the ribs. Can you move the wing(s) into a heated space and let them acclimate for a couple of weeks? If so, I expect you'll find that they smooth right out. >> >> Jack Phillips >> NX899JP >> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim White >> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 8:54 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge >> >> Two weeks ago I glued (T-88) 1/16" Okoume plywood to my leading edge (tra mmeled with ribs, compression struts and leading edge glued). I used cargo s traps around each rib and clamps on the font edge to secure it while curing. Brought the wing to Florida for the winter and found the plywood was sunke n or wavy between several of the ribs (picture). >> The other wing seems OK with a slight bulge on the plywood away from the l eading edge. I am at a loss to determine how this happened unless I got the cargo straps too tight. I assume this deformation will transmit through th e fabric (not having covered an airplane before). I want to remove it and t ry over. Any ideas of what went wrong? Any ideas on how to remove it? >> >> Tim White >> Ocklawaha, Fl > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this meant to be a Piet? From: "wheelharp" I can't imagine how difficult it would be to acquire quality building materials and tools to build with there. It makes me appreciate even more everything I have access to here. That said, it looks like his left wing trailing edge is warped downwards pretty bad...hopefully that gets corrected before he attempts flight again (which I think is this month?) -------- Jon Jones Ironton, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448780#448780 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this meant to be a Piet? From: "wheelharp" Here is difference in angle that I see. -------- Jon Jones Ironton, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448781#448781 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/angle_125.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: "womenfly2" The lead edge is very critical to the airflow and must be have a very smooth transition or you will not have an laminar airflow which could stall the wing at higher airspeed. Issue with not using aircraft grade plywood ... ? Did a plywood leading edge on my Piper L-4, still smooth as when I applied it. See pictures on my link below. Remove and start over .... no covering will help it and if reworked with heat, will come back later with humidity changes. Apply new skins and seal right away to stabilize the wood. Be safe! WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448863#448863 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheel alignment.... From: "TriScout" Hmmm... Good post. My GN-1 always seems a bit squirrely on hard surface landings...gotta dance on the rudder pedals much more so than in a Cub or a Champ. The right J3 gear leg always had a twist in it since a previous owner wiped out in a takeoff incident back in 2000. When it was repaired, it looks like they might have stuck it in a vice and eyeballed it. I am considering buying a new RH gear for my next annual..unless I can find a decent used one. Lar -------- KLNC A65-8 N2308C Slick 4330's AN Hardware Airframe 755TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448864#448864 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_7206_159.png ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:27 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this meant to be a Piet? Is there a way to see if he is on this forum? Is it possible to get his email address? Come on, you computer geeks? Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Nov 5, 2015, at 9:25 AM, wheelharp wrote: > > > Here is difference in angle that I see. > > -------- > Jon Jones > Ironton, MO > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448781#448781 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/angle_125.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: "Bill Church" WF2, Laminar flow? Really? On a Pietenpol wing? Wonder how 6-ply hard cardboard might fare. You know, as shown in the plans. I don't think the use of Okoume vs Aircraft ply is an issue here. BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448871#448871 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.