---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/08/15: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:48 AM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (womenfly2) 2. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Gary Boothe) 3. 12:24 PM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (womenfly2) 4. 03:00 PM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (Bill Church) 5. 03:41 PM - Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge (taildrags) 6. 10:03 PM - Re: Ethiopian Piet type video (taildrags) 7. 10:57 PM - Re: Re: Ethiopian Piet type video (Boatright, Jeffrey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: "womenfly2" It is wishful thinking that the plywood will pull down when the fabric is applied. Never seen that happen, what ever the structures is under the fabric it will be that way when finished. Every aircraft manufacture will tell you the leading edge needs to be smooth. In my experience I have no knowledge of it being like that for 80 years, not what I have seen. There is no excuse for not correcting the issues and making it right, deep down we all what it to be right. Even dents on a Cubs leading edge can make the wing loose lift and needs to be corrected. Be helpful and truthful, all aircraft need to be built with the best skill and practices possible. If its not right correct it, its your life up there and your passenger if you take one .... their entrusting you with their life. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448998#448998 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:28 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge Maybe there is some confusion by the question. Clearly, the plywood pulls down between the ribs, even though it starts out as straight. It is said that it is preferred not to be supported by a filler on the spar, between the ribs, to allow for it to be pulled down and make a smoother transition. I know for fact that my wing 'grows' during Winter, as I can see the aileron butt gap get closer when the humidity rises for an extended time (CA). Jack Phillips made the best suggestion, to allow it some time in a heated environment, and see if the plywood straightens up...then varnish! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of womenfly2 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 9:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge --> It is wishful thinking that the plywood will pull down when the fabric is applied. Never seen that happen, what ever the structures is under the fabric it will be that way when finished. Every aircraft manufacture will tell you the leading edge needs to be smooth. In my experience I have no knowledge of it being like that for 80 years, not what I have seen. There is no excuse for not correcting the issues and making it right, deep down we all what it to be right. Even dents on a Cubs leading edge can make the wing loose lift and needs to be corrected. Be helpful and truthful, all aircraft need to be built with the best skill and practices possible. If its not right correct it, its your life up there and your passenger if you take one .... their entrusting you with their life. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448998#448998 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: "womenfly2" On my Piet I used 45 degree mahogany plywood, I know its expensive, but I had no issues with it. It stayed pretty smooth in all temperature and humidity conditions here in NH. One thing is to add some stringers on the leading edge as in a model plane to give the plywood some support between the ribs too. Helps to keep the shape. But I really do not see the need for them on a Piet, the sheet area is pretty short and only on the top. If the wood is dried properly it should absorb very little moisture in the bare condition. Seal it as soon as its applied will help stabilize it too .... sealing both sides at the same time helps. All good input, WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=449001#449001 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: "Bill Church" Call it wishful thinking if you want. I prefer to call it observing details. If the plywood skin at the leading edge of the wing is installed per the plans (with no reinforcing at the back edge), the fabric will naturally pull the plywood down between the ribs, in the same way that the fabric pulls down between the ribs. This is not a drastic deflection, but it certainly is observable. In fact, the two photos supplied by Gary illustrate my point. The first photo shows the uncovered wing structure, with flat plywood. In the second photo, with the wing covered, the deflection of the plywood can be seen at the right hand side of the photo. For another example, see this photo: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Phillips/images/Brodhead2008_136.JPG In this aircraft, with the airfoil that it has, the trailing edge of the plywood in question is most likely no longer in the area of laminar flow. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=449002#449002 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wavy Okoume Plywood Leading Edge From: "taildrags" At the risk of getting Dan Helsper mad at me, I'm going to post a picture of his wing turner because it is based on the same principle as WF2's wing-turning rotisserie but Dan's is made mostly of wood. Of course, his was almost a necessity since he built his wing all as one piece and turning that thing over requires a lot more work and planning than just handling one wing panel at a time. You'll get the gist of it from the photo. Basically a sturdy "chassis" on casters so you can move it around in the shop. On each end of the chassis are some sort of rollers in which two large circular jigs can roll. The wing assembly is attached to the circular jigs with struts onto the wing mounting points and the whole thing can be turned to any angle needed to work the fabric, paint, ribs, or whatever else. At the conclusion of the project it can be used as a huge rotisserie at the "first flight cookout", and is large enough to hold more grillable things than you can imagine. If you make yours out of wood, you'll need to grill fast and plan for just a single cookout. Metal ones might be good for more grilling sessions. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=449003#449003 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wingjig_107.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ethiopian Piet type video From: "taildrags" Jeff (Boatright)- thank you for taking me down a notch. As a result of being on this list I have low and slow aviation friends all over the world and I am much the richer for it. My intention in making the statement that the world does not owe me (or any other experimental aircraft builder) a duty to help in our success does not mean that we shouldn't jump in and help when we can. It certainly does NOT mean that we shouldn't try, either. It just means that sometimes we get individual ideas and visions in our heads and we push forward with them no matter what the world around us says. In those cases, we just have to do what is in our hearts and heads to do, and failure is certainly an option when we buck the trend and the best advice and just push forward anyway. In fact, sometimes our instinct tells us that something probably won't work but we have to try it to see why it doesn't work and to see if we can find out how we might be able to make it work. I know this is how "Aviken" feels with his Jeep engine Air Camper project, and how some of the rest of you feel with your personalized, "different", custom, unusual, or unorthodox approaches to things. I think that the Ethiopian chap did what he did, the way he did it, because he doesn't have a Wicks, or an Aircraft Spruce, or even a Lowe's or Home Depot or Harbor Freight, or an eBay, or Amazon, or Barnstormers, or a credit card available to him. He has a dream and he put it together the best way he knew how, with what he had available, in spite of what he DIDN'T have. We laugh when we watch the video and the prop flies off just after he fires up the engine, but deep inside we didn't want it to just end there. Maybe we would still have laughed if a wheel fell off after he warmed it up and taxied out, or if any number of other awkward things would have happened later- but the video would have gone absolutely viral if his rig would have made it to the runway, and he throttled it up, and he stumbled and bumbled and bumped it down the runway far enough to where it came up onto the mains and got even a foot or two of air under the tires for even just a few seconds before something else happened and it came crashing back to the ground. And granted, with as much questionable stuff as he had on it, there is no doubt that it would have come down sooner rather than later. We would have cheered the fact that he flew it. We would have felt what he felt, because we have felt it too. We would have welcomed him into the fraternity of aviators, because he earned it. And maybe he will. Far be it from me to deprive this man from any part of what he has put his heart and soul to do, and to attempt. I hope he makes it. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=449007#449007 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:29 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ethiopian Piet type video SGkgT3NjYXIsDQoNCkkgZGlkbuKAmXQgaW50ZW5kIHRvIHRha2UgYW55b25lIGRvd24gYSBub3Rj aCDigJQgZXNwZWNpYWxseSB5b3UhIE9UT0gsIEkgaGF2ZSB0byBzYXkgdGhhdCBJIGFtIGdsYWQg dGhhdCBteSBwb29yIGF0dGVtcHQgYXQgaHVtb3IgcmVzdWx0ZWQgaW4geW91IHBvc3RpbmcgdGhl IHRleHQgYmVsb3cuIEl0IHNheXMgYSBsb3Qgb2YgaG93IEkgYW0gdGhpbmtpbmcgYWJvdXQgdGhp cyBndXkgKGFuZCBvdGhlcnMgSeKAmXZlIG1ldCBpbiB2ZXJ5IHBvb3IgY291bnRyaWVzIHdobyBo YWQgZGlmZmVyZW50IGRyZWFtcyBidXQgbm93IGxlc3MgY2hhbGxlbmdpbmcpLg0KDQpUaGFua3Ms DQoNCkplZmYNCg0KDQpGcm9tOiB0YWlsZHJhZ3MgPHRhaWxkcmFnc0Bob3RtYWlsLmNvbTxtYWls dG86dGFpbGRyYWdzQGhvdG1haWwuY29tPj4NClJlcGx5LVRvOiAicGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0 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