---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/01/16: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:05 AM - Re: GPS (tkreiner) 2. 07:30 AM - carburator overhaul (proplock) 3. 07:41 AM - Re: carburator overhaul (Steven Dortch) 4. 08:42 AM - Re: carburator overhaul (Ben Charvet) 5. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: GPS (Ray Krause) 6. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: GPS (Ray Krause) 7. 09:05 AM - Re: GPS (taildrags) 8. 09:17 AM - Re: carburator overhaul (taildrags) 9. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: carburator overhaul (Steven Dortch) 10. 09:54 AM - Re: carburator overhaul (taildrags) 11. 11:00 AM - Re: carburator overhaul (bradandlinda@tds.net) 12. 07:31 PM - Fw: Kolb-List: Fw: Fw: Matt Dralle (list admin) (Jack) 13. 11:01 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 14. 11:06 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GPS From: "tkreiner" Oscar, Ditto, what Jeff stated re: usability of earlier Garmin vs. ForeFlight in the cockpit... As a CAP Pilot, I attended the G1000 classes, and sorta-kinda learned how to use today, but forget by morning, which buttons to push, knobs to turn, etc. On the other hand, the iPad w/ ForeFlight is difficult to forget how to use, as it was developed as an intuitive human interface. After having planned and flown dozens of x-c flights here in TX, I wouldn't enter a cockpit without it. In fact, I use the G430 in the Diamond DA-20 I fly as a radio only, as it, too, has an ugly interface which requires near constant study to remain GPS proficient. Happy New Year Blessings to all! -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451616#451616 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: carburator overhaul From: "proplock" Has anyone here overhauled a Bendix Stromberg NAS3A1 carb. using the available manual? Would i get in over my head doing this? Thanks. -------- A remarkable lad , capable of many things Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451617#451617 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carburator overhaul From: Steven Dortch I have watched or helped an old buddy overhaul all sorts of carbs. Not rocket science, just follow the manual and use good parts. Make sure you have the most updated manual. Blue skies Steve D On Jan 1, 2016 9:34 AM, "proplock" wrote: > proplock@federatedwildblue.com> > > Has anyone here overhauled a Bendix Stromberg NAS3A1 carb. using the > available manual? Would i get in over my head doing this? Thanks. > > -------- > A remarkable lad , capable of many things > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451617#451617 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:47 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carburator overhaul I did my own 6 years ago. I replaced the float needle with the steel one bought from Fresno airparts and followed the manual for adjusting the fuel level. Definitely a no smoking well ventilated sort of project Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 1, 2016, at 10:29 AM, proplock wrote: > > > Has anyone here overhauled a Bendix Stromberg NAS3A1 carb. using the available manual? Would i get in over my head doing this? Thanks. > > -------- > A remarkable lad , capable of many things > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451617#451617 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:58 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: GPS Oscar and Douwe, Thanks for all your comments and thoughts, I find them enjoyable. The other forums are filled with ADSB-in/out, IFR fixes, 2020 requirements and such. T he PIETENPOL forum gets right down to the basics of flying. There are not ma ny places where we can enjoy the simple joys of flying without being critici zed for out simplistic ways. Although this great poem was written right after John Magee (at about 20 yea rs of age) completed a flight to 33,000' in a Spitfire, it speaks to us who d o fly with the larks and Eagles. My prayers are with Matt and his family. His hard work with all the forums h elps all of us to fly. High Flight "Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; Sunward I=99ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth of sun-split clouds, =94 and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of =94 wheeled and soared and swung High in the sunlit silence. Hov=99ring there, I=99ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung My eager craft through footless halls of air.... Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue I=99ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace. Where never lark, or even eagle flew =94 And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod The high untrespassed sanctity of space, - Put out my hand, and touched the face of God." Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Dec 31, 2015, at 9:52 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > Douwe: would you mind posting a picture of how you have your iPhone set up directly in front of you in the cockpit? That is just about the right dist ance for me to see something like a map screen clearly while in flight, with out having to put on reading glasses. Now if I could just get Siri to under stand voice commands like, "Siri, get the current ATIS for me and then switc h me to Medford tower", we'd be in business ;o) Having to look down to chan ge frequencies on my little Icom always seems to result in me looking up to f ind myself in a descending left spiral with increasing airspeed. Why can't I just fly the airplane and forget about the radios?? > > And Steve, I'm very frugal myself, so I'm always at least one or two gener ations behind in electronics and phones. I had a hiker/hunter Magellan GPS 2 000 after they got superseded by the fancier toys and were available brand-n ew for cheap. I flew a 3 hour x-c out across eastern Oregon in a Super Cub w ith nothing but that little gem (and folded sectionals) after I had punched i n a direct route to where I was going, and it was incredible to be able to r ead out groundspeed, ground track (which helped me determine wind correction angle), elapsed time, distance to station, and all that- without trying to u se the E6B or anything else in the cockpit. How easily we get spoiled! Now I have a perfectly good Garmin GPSMap 196 that can do everything but mix a p erfect martini and everybody is saying it's "so yesterday"??! Having a 196 i n the cockpit of an Air Camper is like having a Garmin G1000 dual-display gl ass panel in a Cessna 150! The panel can do so much more than the airpla! > ne can, that you might as well stay home and play with the panel instead o f flying an old wood and fabric airplane with that thing in front of you ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451604#451604 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:00 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: GPS Jeffrey, I like your thinking! GPS is just the new version of map and pencil pilotage! Now, if I could keep the GPS in the glove box and have it displayed on the windscreen of my SkyScout, I could fly heads-up and no one would know how I got to my destination! Just leave an old folded sectional on the seat along with the goggles! Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Dec 31, 2015, at 10:32 PM, Boatright, Jeffrey wrote: > > > Hi Oscar, > > I have a different take on the evolution of technology in the cockpit. The dedicated aviation GPS units are like other avionics that originated in the steam gauge era. They require mental translation into actual and useful guidance. Conversely, apps like ForeFlight and WingX were developed from the moving maps mindset. They are much more like simply holding a chart in your hand and flying by pilotage. Only instead of you trying to follow a line on the chart that you drew during preflight prep, the moving map shows you a similar preplanned course line PLUS a line or ticker or breadcrumb, etc. that represents how you're actually progressing across the ground. These apps are simply electronic vesions of your chart, and thus, I argue, are truer to chart-following pilotage than the old-thinking, dedicated GPS units. > > Or something like that... > > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem > >> On Jan 1, 2016, at 12:55 AM, "taildrags" wrote: >> >> >> Douwe: would you mind posting a picture of how you have your iPhone set up directly in front of you in the cockpit? That is just about the right distance for me to see something like a map screen clearly while in flight, without having to put on reading glasses. Now if I could just get Siri to understand voice commands like, "Siri, get the current ATIS for me and then switch me to Medford tower", we'd be in business ;o) Having to look down to change frequencies on my little Icom always seems to result in me looking up to find myself in a descending left spiral with increasing airspeed. Why can't I just fly the airplane and forget about the radios?? >> >> And Steve, I'm very frugal myself, so I'm always at least one or two generations behind in electronics and phones. I had a hiker/hunter Magellan GPS 2000 after they got superseded by the fancier toys and were available brand-new for cheap. I flew a 3 hour x-c out across eastern Oregon in a Super Cub with nothing but that little gem (and folded sectionals) after I had punched in a direct route to where I was going, and it was incredible to be able to read out groundspeed, ground track (which helped me determine wind correction angle), elapsed time, distance to station, and all that- without trying to use the E6B or anything else in the cockpit. How easily we get spoiled! Now I have a perfectly good Garmin GPSMap 196 that can do everything but mix a perfect martini and everybody is saying it's "so yesterday"??! Having a 196 in the cockpit of an Air Camper is like having a Garmin G1000 dual-display glass panel in a Cessna 150! The panel can do so much more than the airp! > la! >> ne can, that you might as well stay home and play with the panel instead of flying an old wood and fabric airplane with that thing in front of you ;o) >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> A75 power >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451604#451604 > > ________________________________ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GPS From: "taildrags" Jeff, Tom, et al- I was in no way inferring that the Garmin-style GPS navigation tools are more intuitive than a touchscreen on an iPhone or iPad. In fact, that's why I asked Douwe to share a bit more about how he mounts his phone on the coaming in front of him in the cockpit. I take my phone with me while flying, but only for calling someone if I need to, as in an off-field landing or other emergency. I've tried taking pictures with it while airborne and I can do it, but it's a bit tricky. However, if it was fixed in place in front of me, I could sure manage to pan around in a map screen to find something, or zoom in or out with my fingers. I know what you mean about the G1000. That's what I flew for my last BFR and it was my first time behind a glass panel. I had watched and studied the Sporty's training video a couple of times before going to the field, but it's like you say- there is too much to remember if you don't use it frequently. I was absolutely astonished at the system's capabilities, and it really isn't that difficult to operate it if you stay at it, but I've left that type of flying behind me in the smoke ;o) Now if you tell me you can get a HITS-type "fly through the boxes right to the runway threshold" on an iPhone or iPad, that would be awesome! We often have fog or low clouds pop up in a hurry around here, and it's easy to get caught in reduced visibility or "instant IFR". In fact, when we have wildland fires in the summer, the viz can drop to IFR in smoke, too. Punching in a highway-in-the-sky would be a very good safety tool to have in the toolbox. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451626#451626 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: carburator overhaul From: "taildrags" Proplock: I have overhauled numerous different Strombergs and my A75 Piet flies with one that I overhauled from ground zero. I will echo what the others said: take your time, use new parts, and get all the new parts that you can. Most of these carbs have been tinkered with a number of times over the years so they may have buggered up screws, old gaskets, missing parts, and metal washers where fiber ones are indicated. Use only new gaskets and make sure the gasket surfaces are clean and flat. If yours has been sitting for a while, you may have trouble removing some of the screws that hold things together. Don't force anything because you will no doubt strip a screw head or mess up some aluminum. Get some good solvent loosen frozen fasteners (one or two of mine took a week of daily application of solvent to loosen), and good carburetor and parts cleaner. For me, the most important rebuild item is the exploded parts diagram because I follow it to make sure I have each and every part and as I clean or replace each part, I take a highlighter and yellow it out on the diagram so I don't miss anything. Note that the Stromberg exploded view diagram has a couple of mistakes on it though! Dedicate a place on your workbench for the carb overhaul... there are too many small parts to lose and too many small passages in the carb body to get crud or dust into. Use a good light, keep everything clean, and remember that you're dealing with a mechanically simple but operationally intricate piece of hardware that was designed in the 1920s. That's just a few years shy of 100!! They are reliable, they work, but they do have their nuances. Here's one of many good references on these carbs: http://thestrombergspecialist.com/index.php/86-news -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451628#451628 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: carburator overhaul From: Steven Dortch My old buddy, the carb guy, paints old carbs with shellac, in and out. He just rebuilt a Ford model a carb and used shellac. What do y'all think? Shellac is interesting stuff. A resin collected from the lac bug, usually suspended in alcohol. Gas resistant. He also tells people to use no Ethanol fuel as it can screw up old carbs. You can still get 100% gas in Oklahoma where he is. Blue skies, Steve D On Jan 1, 2016 11:20 AM, "taildrags" wrote: > > Proplock: I have overhauled numerous different Strombergs and my A75 Piet > flies with one that I overhauled from ground zero. I will echo what the > others said: take your time, use new parts, and get all the new parts that > you can. Most of these carbs have been tinkered with a number of times > over the years so they may have buggered up screws, old gaskets, missing > parts, and metal washers where fiber ones are indicated. Use only new > gaskets and make sure the gasket surfaces are clean and flat. If yours has > been sitting for a while, you may have trouble removing some of the screws > that hold things together. Don't force anything because you will no doubt > strip a screw head or mess up some aluminum. Get some good solvent loosen > frozen fasteners (one or two of mine took a week of daily application of > solvent to loosen), and good carburetor and parts cleaner. > > For me, the most important rebuild item is the exploded parts diagram > because I follow it to make sure I have each and every part and as I clean > or replace each part, I take a highlighter and yellow it out on the diagram > so I don't miss anything. Note that the Stromberg exploded view diagram > has a couple of mistakes on it though! > > Dedicate a place on your workbench for the carb overhaul... there are too > many small parts to lose and too many small passages in the carb body to > get crud or dust into. Use a good light, keep everything clean, and > remember that you're dealing with a mechanically simple but operationally > intricate piece of hardware that was designed in the 1920s. That's just a > few years shy of 100!! They are reliable, they work, but they do have > their nuances. Here's one of many good references on these carbs: > > http://thestrombergspecialist.com/index.php/86-news > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451628#451628 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: carburator overhaul From: "taildrags" Steve; just seeing the old flaking shellac as I extracted the oil gallery plugs on my A65, I sure wouldn't use it inside my carb. I think it was supposed to be used as a sealant or thread locker, but we have much better things for that now. For sure I wouldn't get shellac anywhere near the air or fuel passages of my carb! The idle circuit passages in particular, should not be changed in any way and lining them with shellac sounds like a good way to reduce the inside diameter and possibly even obstruct them. If you can find one carb specialist who recommends the shellac treatment, I'll listen. Old timers, not so much. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451630#451630 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:57 AM PST US From: "bradandlinda@tds.net" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carburator overhaul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Charvet" Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:42:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carburator overhaul I did my own 6 years ago. I replaced the float needle with the steel one bought from Fresno airparts and followed the manual for adjusting the fuel level. Definitely a no smoking well ventilated sort of project Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 1, 2016, at 10:29 AM, proplock wrote: > > > Has anyone here overhauled a Bendix Stromberg NAS3A1 carb. using the available manual? Would i get in over my head doing this? Thanks. > > -------- > A remarkable lad , capable of many things > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451617#451617 > > > > > > > There is a Stromberg guru in Orland Park Il. (Uni-Tech Air Management Systems, 708 267-7111. uni-tech@earthlink.net. He has material nos and specks on the different carbs. Many carbs are incorrectly mounted on eng/airframe that have the wrong parts or for different fuel pressure heads. He has a wonderful 5 page brochedure that I'm sure he would send you. Good luck, Brad Williams > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Kolb-List: Fwd: Fwd: Matt Dralle (list admin) From: Jack -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Kolb-List: Fwd: Fwd: Matt Dralle (list admin) From: Charlie England Retrying to a single list each time; first attempt at multiple lists seems to have failed. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Matt Dralle (list admin) From: Charlie England , kolb-list@matronics.com Just saw a post on the VAF forum that Matt had a stroke yesterday. The post quoted his facebook page: /Matt Update: He is responding to comments being made by squeezing Katie's hand and he was able to answer his age by using his one hand. All early indicators are that he is doing ok. Katie sends her thanks for the prayers and that they are definitely helping. / Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers, and remember that he won't be able to deal with list maintenance issues for some time. I'm trying to send this to the RV, aeroelectric, and kolb lists. If you're a member of additional lists, it might be good to pass it on. Charlie ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:51 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:24 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.