---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/29/16: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:32 AM - Re: motor mount (AircamperN11MS) 2. 09:07 AM - OT Aeronca Champ for sale (Steven Dortch) 3. 07:09 PM - Plans source... (Phillip Perry) 4. 07:46 PM - Re: motor mount (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: motor mount From: "AircamperN11MS" Semih, I have a C-85-12 cont. on my plane and my thrust line is straight ahead. No offset. It seems to work out just fine for me. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452415#452415 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Aeronca Champ for sale From: Steven Dortch Guys, my 85 YO buddy is giving up flying due to medical problems. He is selling his 1947 7AC Champ (named Skeeter) with a strong 65 hp continental. New Garmin 720 com with intercom. $20,000 firm. Extra engine parts and prop included. Mechanically excellent LSA. I personally flew this plane last month and it is a delight to fly. I wish I could buy it, but the timing is not good. If you are serious email me off list and I will put you in contact. Blue Skies, Steve D. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans source... From: Phillip Perry Hi Everyone, After 8.5 years, I'm finally in the home stretch of finishing my RV-10 and am already having a wandering eye with regards to the next project. I've pretty much settled on the Piet as something barebones simple, slow, and a nostalgic reflection of a different era. It's completely the anti-10. It will be a good project to work on with idle hands. I've found the Piet website and it looks like there are multiple sections of the plans available for sale (Link ). I'm also getting ready to place and order with Spruce and thought I might go ahead and order the plans from them. Here's my question: It looks like the plans are $250 on the Piet site for product 8; and it apparently includes everything. The plans on the Spruce site are also $250, but there isn't a clear description of what's included. Are the two $250 plan packages the same? If so, I'll just order them from Spruce now to get the ball rolling. Thanks for your help, Phil ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: motor mount From: "taildrags" Semih; since the list has been pretty quiet, I don't feel bad posting a rather lengthy response. This is copied from something that I sent to another builder who is considering using an O200. First, I will grant you (and it's important to note) that the weight, CG, and physical configuration of my airframe and engine will by definition of "homebuilt" and "experimental" be different from yours, so anything that works on my airplane may not work on yours, for obvious reasons. Perhaps more subtly, even if our airplanes were quite similar in their major aspects, slight differences in construction and rigging could make mine *aerodynamically* different from yours so the fine points of trim and rigging that make mine fly straight and level may not apply to yours. In that light, I offer my further comments and observations. With the 3.5 degree downthrust and thrustline offset that are now set on my engine and airframe, in level cruise and with the stick held firmly to keep the airplane steady in roll and pitch, if I remove my feet from the rudder pedals the airplane will yaw gently to the left. I didn't want to believe it after I had made the tweaks and shims and adjustments that I did, but it's true and I've demonstrated it time and time again in the smooth calmness of morning air. In the more usual conditions that I fly (bumps and less than smooth air), it's far less noticeable but still there. My airplane cannot be flown with feet off the rudder pedals and still maintain heading. The prop hub is not perfectly centered in the opening in the engine cowl opening anymore, but the airplane flies straighter and I'm OK with that. It all adds character, and I don't mean just to the airplane. In the pitch axis, you can only guess at what to set the downthrust for the way you will "mostly" fly the airplane because (for example), with just me in the airplane and full fuel in the tank, I need to hold back stick for about the first hour or 90 minutes of flight. As fuel burns off, the need for back stick reduces but in any case the back pressure is never really enough for me to wish I had elevator trim. In fact, the snugness in my palm adds a bit of steadiness to things. The downfall comes if I need to let go of the stick to do anything, in which case the nose will drop and I'll see increasing airspeed pretty quickly until I grab the stick again, but it's not instant and it's not frightening. It is, however, unstoppable without the use of hands or the fumbling of knees against the stick ;o) As fuel burns off this tendency decreases until at some point, in smooth air and in level flight, I can let go of the stick for perhaps 10 seconds at a time without altitude going nuts. I can't ask more of the airplane than that. My airplane is pretty stable in roll but if something starts happening in one of the other axes, roll is quite willing to go along with the game and pretty soon none of them are behaving. Pick up an errant wing with rudder and just move on. Now back to yaw, since that is usually what we're trying to correct with thrustline offset. Right now I have a bent aluminum trim tab on the trailing edge of my rudder, about 2/3 of the way down from the top. It is 3" tall and stands away from the rudder 2". Its trailing edge is deflected 1" to port off the axis of the rudder... in other words, it is bent at an angle of 30 degrees to port. Standing behind the airplane, that is to the left. Without this trim tab the yawing tendency with feet off the pedals is about 40-50% more than it is with the tab, so as much as I would have liked to have taken it off and left it off, flight testing showed noticeable improvement with it so I left it on. A kludge, an admission of failure, a sign that things are not as they should be. A necessary evil in my case, but not necessarily in yours. The leading edge of my vertical stabilizer is offset 1/4" to the left (port side) from perfectly in line with the axis of the fuselage. I would have offset it more than that in order to correct the yawing tendency without the use of the bent metal trim tab but since the tailpost remains fixed as I force the nose of the VS over, the wood and glue joints are all stressed and I didn't like that so I left it at what I felt comfortable with. It helped get me to where the stability is now, but it obviously adds trim drag and if you can keep your VS aligned with the airframe and make the yaw correction using thrustline offset, I think you would be better off. So now to summarize, I have three kludges all slapped together on my airplane to get the tail to swing to port (rotate the airplane clockwise) and thus get the nose to swing to starboard (rotate the airplane clockwise). Without them, and with feet off the rudder bar, my airplane will yaw to port and rotate the airplane counter-clockwise as I watch the compass heading count down from 360 like the Dow Jones on a bad day ;o) I have a bent trim tab on the rudder, I have offset in my vertical stabilizer, and I have engine mount shims. You can do better by building in some thrustline offset and if you do, you might be able to eliminate one, two, or all of these kludges. Now, should you find some shimming to be necessary to correct yaw or pitch trim at your engine mounts after you complete and test-fly the airplane, do not spend the $11.50 that Aircraft Spruce wants for each of their P/N 21530 engine mount washers for Continentals. And by all means do NOT use standard AN970-6 large flat washers for this duty... they are too thin and they will cup when you tighten down the nuts. Don't ask me how I know this ;o) If you need washers that are perfectly suited for this application, get McMaster-Carr item no. 92140A118 black oxided steel washers, $12.36 for a 10-pack, and you will be happy. I wouldn't be surprised if you can't find them in Istanbul, but you get the idea. By the way, several cruise lines have just taken all Turkish ports off their Mediterranean cruise itineraries. It's a shame. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452430#452430 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.