---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/11/16: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:23 AM - Re: Ordering metal (taildrags) 2. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Ordering metal (Charles N. Campbell) 3. 02:34 PM - Re: Ordering metal (Lorenzo) 4. 03:18 PM - Re: Ordering metal (wheelharp) 5. 05:37 PM - Re: Ordering metal (Pocono John) 6. 06:27 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/10/16 (Donald Lane) 7. 06:32 PM - Allen James Pietenpol Diplomat from across the pond (Matt Naiva) 8. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Ordering metal (Clif Dawson) 9. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: Ordering metal (Ray Krause) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "taildrags" John; Many people have mentioned this over the years but I'll repeat it: some of the metal fittings on the Air Camper can benefit by being made a little bit longer and you would do well to study photos (Westcoastpiet is a great place to see lots of photos). I'll give you two quick examples. First, the wing lift strut attach fittings on the wing spars, where they protrude out the bottom of the wing, end up with the strut mounting holes so close to the fabric that you can't get a ratchet or a box-end ratcheting wrench on them. Tightening the bolts becomes a flat-by-flat exercise using two open-end wrenches. Lengthening the fittings just a little bit would really help. Next, down at the landing gear/lift strut attach fittings at the bottom of the fuselage, the lift struts are typically attached to the fittings using adjustable fork ends. The bolt that holds the fork end to the attach fitting is a stubby AN5- or -6 bolt (I don't remember which), and it has to go in at an angle. If you build everything per plans, it's very difficult to insert that bolt as it should be (with the head up) because the bolt contacts the lower longeron and fabric. If you don't have Mike Cuy's excellent build-and-fly video, by all means get a copy! Mike does a very thorough walk-around of his airplane and points out some of the spots where the fittings should be made a little longer to make installation of the hardware less of a pain. The video is great rainy day viewing, too. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452766#452766 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "Charles N. Campbell" Now you tell me. Fooey on it. I'll just run the bolts upside down. The nuts are not coming off anyway! C On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:23 AM, taildrags wrote: > > John; > > Many people have mentioned this over the years but I'll repeat it: some of > the metal fittings on the Air Camper can benefit by being made a little bit > longer and you would do well to study photos (Westcoastpiet is a great > place to see lots of photos). I'll give you two quick examples. First, > the wing lift strut attach fittings on the wing spars, where they protrude > out the bottom of the wing, end up with the strut mounting holes so close > to the fabric that you can't get a ratchet or a box-end ratcheting wrench > on them. Tightening the bolts becomes a flat-by-flat exercise using two > open-end wrenches. Lengthening the fittings just a little bit would really > help. Next, down at the landing gear/lift strut attach fittings at the > bottom of the fuselage, the lift struts are typically attached to the > fittings using adjustable fork ends. The bolt that holds the fork end to > the attach fitting is a stubby AN5- or -6 bolt (I don't remember which), > and it has to go in at an angle. ! > If you build everything per plans, it's very difficult to insert that > bolt as it should be (with the head up) because the bolt contacts the lower > longeron and fabric. > > If you don't have Mike Cuy's excellent build-and-fly video, by all means > get a copy! Mike does a very thorough walk-around of his airplane and > points out some of the spots where the fittings should be made a little > longer to make installation of the hardware less of a pain. The video is > great rainy day viewing, too. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452766#452766 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "Lorenzo" I tried to get a copy of Mike Cuy's video a couple of years ago, but he wasn't making them any more. If anyone has a copy they would send/sell to me, please let me know. I'd still like to watch it. Lorenzo Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452774#452774 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "wheelharp" I'd like to see it too....maybe if Mike doesn't want to mess with making them, he could allow someone to make copies and send him the money for them. What would be really cool is a digital download. -------- Jon Jones Ironton, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452775#452775 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "Pocono John" Thank you Oscar! I'll remember what you wrote and add it to my notes. As far as the Mike Cuy video, I'll have to search for that. As far as photos, I've been compiling photos from all over as they help. I'm making sure to upload plenty of photos to my own site not only to document it, but maybe the photos will help others. Thanks again! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452776#452776 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:11 PM PST US From: "Donald Lane" Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/10/16 That is odd because you do have the right email address . Phyllis -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pietenpol-List Digest Server Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 3:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/10/16 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-02-10&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2016-02-10&Archive=Pietenpol =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/10/16: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:19 AM - Re: Ordering metal (bdewenter) 2. 06:21 AM - Re: Engine mount bolt lengths (bdewenter) 3. 07:59 AM - Re: Ordering metal (Pocono John) 4. 02:43 PM - Re: Ordering metal (tools) 5. 02:57 PM - Re: Ordering metal (Pocono John) 6. 03:32 PM - Re: Ordering metal (tools) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "bdewenter" John, MANY of the fittings can be made from "strip steel" in various gauges, widths and lengths. You can cut these up with a simple hack saw (with the BEST blades money can buy) very quickly. Obviously the larger metal fitting need to come from sheet. Consider getting your larger parts water jet cut. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452744#452744 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine mount bolt lengths From: "bdewenter" Page 192 of the manual states AN6-36 and in the instructions for the motor mount state AN6-36 -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452745#452745 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "Pocono John" Thanks Bob. The plans don't mention (or I missed it) what type steel. Do builders use 4130, something else, or steel bought locally (like Tractor Supply)? I have a metal cutting band saw and I can drill and ream holes. The one company for water jet is priceywill see about it when the time comes. I found a great page on the website "Pete's Pietenpol" that listed in detail the metal parts required. I'll use that to make a shopping list. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452749#452749 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "tools" Yep, you want 4130 for everything. I think the plans mention1020 or something, so 4130 isn't "necessary", but is widely accepted as the way to go. If you have a metal cutting contour saw, vertical, water jetting isn't necessary, just a matter of time vs money. With nothing but a hacksaw... Ya, probably a little higher on the priority list! The only real advice I have to add is to really consider the holes. If a hole is to be matched up with another part, sometimes wise to drill both at once, or use one part to locate the matching hole. It's possible you will save some frustration by trying your best to visualize those sorts of situations and planning ahead. Generally, it's a pretty straight forward job! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452753#452753 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "Pocono John" Thanks Tools! Previous to this project, I made all the brackets for a Hatz Classic and doubled the parts for drilling/reaming. After all that, realized I'd rather have a plane in a few years instead of 12 or moreso Hatz will be my retirement project. OK, I'll get more 4130. Thanks again! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452754#452754 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal From: "tools" I didn't build my Piet, but have done extensive work on it. I'm now working on (extensive repairs) a starduster too... WOW! Probably ten times the parts? Practically ALL of them more complicated than anything on a Piet! I definitely see where you're coming from! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452755#452755 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Allen James Pietenpol Diplomat from across the pond From: Matt Naiva I have always admired the workmanship from afar on G-BUCO. I believe the cowl and paint were borrowed from the Parnall Elf and suite the Pietenpol well. I just found this video interview of the English Pietenpol statesmen. https://player.vimeo.com/video/109686038 I hope all who have not seen it enjoy it! I would like to meet Allen James one day. Matt REF http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5091/5474456519_e4ebdafa6c.jpg http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/G-BUCO%20Pictures/images/Pietenpol.air.camper.g-buco.arp.jpg My favorite Iconic image! http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g77/krazy-eyes/Master-Walker-copy.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:59 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal You'll be in good company. As in F86 Saber. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles N. Campbell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 11:47 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal Now you tell me. Fooey on it. I'll just run the bolts upside down. The nuts are not coming off anyway! C On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:23 AM, taildrags wrote: John; Many people have mentioned this over the years but I'll repeat it: some of the metal fittings on the Air Camper can benefit by being made a little bit longer and you would do well to study photos (Westcoastpiet is a great place to see lots of photos). I'll give you two quick examples. First, the wing lift strut attach fittings on the wing spars, where they protrude out the bottom of the wing, end up with the strut mounting holes so close to the fabric that you can't get a ratchet or a box-end ratcheting wrench on them. Tightening the bolts becomes a flat-by-flat exercise using two open-end wrenches. Lengthening the fittings just a little bit would really help. Next, down at the landing gear/lift strut attach fittings at the bottom of the fuselage, the lift struts are typically attached to the fittings using adjustable fork ends. The bolt that holds the fork end to the attach fitting is a stubby AN5- or -6 bolt (I don't remember which), and it has to go in at an angle. ! If you build everything per plans, it's very difficult to insert that bolt as it should be (with the head up) because the bolt contacts the lower longeron and fabric. If you don't have Mike Cuy's excellent build-and-fly video, by all means get a copy! Mike does a very thorough walk-around of his airplane and points out some of the spots where the fittings should be made a little longer to make installation of the hardware less of a pain. The video is great rainy day viewing, too. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452766#452766 ========== br> fts!) r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ========== br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:03 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal I put the bolts in the bottom strut fitting upside down and just used castel lated nuts and cotter pins, I'm pretty sure the nuts won't come off! Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Feb 11, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Charles N. Campbell wrote: > > Now you tell me. Fooey on it. I'll just run the bolts upside down. The n uts are not coming off anyway! C > >> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:23 AM, taildrags wrote : >> >> John; >> >> Many people have mentioned this over the years but I'll repeat it: some o f the metal fittings on the Air Camper can benefit by being made a little bi t longer and you would do well to study photos (Westcoastpiet is a great pla ce to see lots of photos). I'll give you two quick examples. First, the wi ng lift strut attach fittings on the wing spars, where they protrude out the bottom of the wing, end up with the strut mounting holes so close to the fa bric that you can't get a ratchet or a box-end ratcheting wrench on them. T ightening the bolts becomes a flat-by-flat exercise using two open-end wrenc hes. Lengthening the fittings just a little bit would really help. Next, d own at the landing gear/lift strut attach fittings at the bottom of the fuse lage, the lift struts are typically attached to the fittings using adjustabl e fork ends. The bolt that holds the fork end to the attach fitting is a st ubby AN5- or -6 bolt (I don't remember which), and it has to go in at an ang le. ! >> If you build everything per plans, it's very difficult to insert that b olt as it should be (with the head up) because the bolt contacts the lower l ongeron and fabric. >> >> If you don't have Mike Cuy's excellent build-and-fly video, by all means g et a copy! Mike does a very thorough walk-around of his airplane and points out some of the spots where the fittings should be made a little longer to m ake installation of the hardware less of a pain. The video is great rainy d ay viewing, too. >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> A75 power >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452766#452766 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> br> fts!) >> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.builde rsbooks.com >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ========== >> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========== > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.