Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:37 PM - Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (Dave'sPiet)
2. 04:02 PM - Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (echobravo4)
3. 04:11 PM - Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (Dave'sPiet)
4. 07:09 PM - Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (Dave'sPiet)
5. 09:10 PM - Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (taildrags)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
Oscar- Thank you for the offer. If I'm ever up your way I will get in touch. The
West Coast flying is already on my calendar!
Bill- All of this makes me want to marry up the best of both of these fuselages....
I have seen Corvair and Continental engines mounted on the 163" fuselage and also
on the longest fuselage, and occasionally a very long engine mount used on
the both fuselages in order to make it work...
At this juncture, I am actually considering building a fuselage with the longer
forward bays, but without adding the the longer bays behind the pilot seat. This
would effectively extend the engine out while decreasing the arm/moment of
the tail section, resulting in a CG that would not require the wings to be moved
so far aft at the end of my build (in comparison to building a plans built
longest fuselage).
Extending an engine mount makes little sense to me- you have an aircraft where
pilot and passenger are starved for space, yet a huge empty space is created forward
of the firewall to get the engine far enough out front to bring the aircraft
inside the CG envelope. Why not simply extend the firewall forward several
inches, creating a larger cockpit(s), and then use a shorter engine mount?
The longest fuselage doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, because you are
moving the pilot aft while moving the moment of the tail section aft, necessitating
moving the wings even further aft.
I'm not an airplane designer, but with the combinations that I have seen with fuselages,
engines and engine mounts, at first and second glance it would seem
to make more sense to simply extend the fuselage forward of the Datum if you are
going to utilize the Continental/Corvair engine, while minimizing the amount
of weight/moment you will build aft of the Datum.
Of course, then I become concerned about aircraft stability, but when I see the
things that builders have done- aircraft out there flying around with cabane
struts extended 3-5", and engine mounts extended 9" beyond plans, wings being
moved aft to get the CG within range, then I begin to think that a marriage of
the longest fuselage with the 163" fuselage isn't very far fetched at all....
and since I have to work out my own gear placement no matter what fuselage I
build, there is no additional work created there.
I also do not see stress/loading issues with my idea either, because the aircraft
would be lighter overall, in comparison to the plans-built longest fuselage.
I think the resultant fuselage would end up being only about ~6 inches shorter
than the longest fuselage, but the overall length from prop to tail would be considerably
shorter, since the engine mount would be shorter. I think that the
shift forward of the moment of the tail section would be significant in regards
to moving the CG further forward with a 210 lb pilot in the rear cockpit.
Fire away!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453189#453189
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
Dave-
The plane, per the plans, is designed to have the wing move fore and aft to account
for where the CG needs to be (regardless of fuselage length).
The final angled cabane struts would be made after the the wing position is finalized.
The thing to do would be to get ahold of the weight and balance articles from the
Brodhead Pietenpol Association and run the calculations based on your engine
choice and your weight. That will tell you right where your wing, as well as
your landing gear, will need to be, without any guesswork, before you even even
start building.
The articles cover continental engines and just about every fuselage length and
I think pilot weights up to 195 lbs.
The charts and the calculations should put you an the right track without having
to redesign the aircraft.
Earl
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453193#453193
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
I appreciate that Earl. I'll contact them.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
Well, I just finished reading the W&B article by Doc Mosher and William Wynne...
it is a treasure trove, and addressed my concerns about how to build it with
a planned CG. No Piet plans should be sold without it.
[Shocked]
It also makes me realize how important it is to become part of the Piet community
prior to beginning a build (unless you don't mind building things twice).
I am becoming a Broadhead member tomorrow.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453197#453197
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
Dave; I hope that you're referring to the complete series of articles on W&B than
includes the data tabulated for an assortment of Air Campers with different
fuselage lengths, landing gear styles, powerplants, fuel tank locations, and
of course accessories. It's good that you're doing homework up front instead
of jumping right into the build and then later wishing you'd paid a little more
attention to why people talk about tail heaviness, cabane angle adjustment,
and all that stuff. You'll be glad you took the time to study it.
And don't take this the wrong way, but your first lesson in BPA membership is that
you have to learn how to spell 'Brodhead'. It's a city in Wisconsin, not
a type of hunting arrow point ;o) Don't mind me though... I am an associate editor
and manuscript proofreader for a technical publication and my stock in trade
is checking spelling and punctuation ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
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