Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:54 AM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (Dave'sPiet)
2. 08:00 AM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (PatrickW)
3. 08:09 AM - weight & balance yet again (Elizabeth Cooper)
4. 09:11 AM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (Bill Church)
5. 01:15 PM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (Dave'sPiet)
6. 01:36 PM - Corvair Engines Wanted (H. Marvin Haught)
7. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (John Hofmann)
8. 05:34 PM - Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (johnnysdrop)
9. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (Ray Krause)
10. 09:17 PM - Re: weight & balance yet again (Dave'sPiet)
11. 10:01 PM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (taildrags)
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot seat back angle |
If you are determined to move the seat back angle for comfort, then you would need
to know what the aircraft's exact attitude is while in cruise flight... because
the angle of the seat back would be measured from that reference point,
and not from the upper longeron, correct?
Does anybody have any data regarding the angle of the fuselage during cruise flight?
I would expect that the upper longeron is not level in this aircraft, but
who knows?
Any input appreciated [Wink]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453282#453282
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot seat back angle |
Suggest that a "target angle" could be obtained by going out to your car and measuring
the seat-back angle of your driver's seat (which is probably already set
to a comfortable angle).
With the Piet fuselage it would be much easier to decrease the seatback angle if
you ever need to, versus increasing it...
Patrick Hoyt
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| Subject: | weight & balance yet again |
Goodmorrow Pietenpeople,The list has been awfully quiet of late, so I thought I
would add my two cent's worth. Although I'm not sure it is worth $.02. First
I would like to ask if there is any update on Matt Dralle's health? I hope he
is doing well.
So... I have been following the W & B discussion. There has been a lot of good
info, albeit, so much so that it could overwhelm a newcomer. My concern is: Why
on earth would you choose to use a datum that moves? I have read several articles
that stated you can use any point on the aircraft as a datum. ie: the tip
of the spinner, the prop face plate, et al. I have chosen to use the firewall.
It is a solid fixed location on the air frame. It is easy to measure from and
most times you don't have to bother with a plumb bob. Supposing you have used
the leading edge.If you slant the cabanes rearward and move the leading edge
back 3", you must then go back and change every moment arm on your W & B sheet
by 3" and recalculate. If I move my wing there is a slight change in the empty
weight arm and a change to the arm of any fuel weight in the wing. The remaining
pilot wt, passenger wt, oil wt, coolant wt, prop wt, header tank wt, etc
arms all remain the same. And, should you move the wing again, it starts all
over. Just a thought.
I have not fabricated my engine mount as yet, or more correctly, had it built (
I will not trust my life to any welding I might learn to do). If I do my math
correctly, I am hoping I will not have to move the wing. Wish me luck.
Well folks, this has been my opinion. Take it as you may. Those of you who have
finished your builds, go out and enjoy flight. The rest of us will have to keep
plugging away.
Yours, Scott Bartko low and slow with the top down
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot seat back angle |
I think, for the purposes of this discussion, we can assume the top longeron to
be level during cruise flight. I'm not aware of anyone measuring the actual
conditions in flight, but air-to-air photos of Piets in flight don't appear to
indicate any appreciable deviation from level. For reference, one degree of
incidence would translate to approximately 3 inches of slope over the length of
the fuselage.
Therefore, setting the slope of the pilot's seat back based on the assumption that
the top longeron will be level during cruise would be a reasonable approach
to take.
Bill C.
Davespiet wrote:
> If you are determined to move the seat back angle for comfort, then you would
need to know what the aircraft's exact attitude is while in cruise flight...
because the angle of the seat back would be measured from that reference point,
and not from the upper longeron, correct?
>
> Does anybody have any data regarding the angle of the fuselage during cruise
flight? I would expect that the upper longeron is not level in that flight regime,
but who knows...
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453293#453293
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot seat back angle |
Bill, I suppose one could assume that the top longeron is level in flight, but
BHP designed the original Ford engine mount to be angled downwards to account
for the fact that the fuselage had a nose high attitude in cruise flight, as he
felt that the engine should be pointed in the direction that the airframe was
actually traveling through the air...
If this was in fact true, then the top longeron was not inline with the thrust
line at that point in the development of the Piet. From what I understand, most
engine mounts in Piets these days are built with the engine parallel to the
firewall, which will no nothing to decrease that angle of incidence of the fuselage
during cruise flight.
I don't know whether BHPs first Piet design had the different cabane heights from
front to rear, so perhaps he added incidence to the wing with a later cabane
specification, which effectively lowered the fuselage incidence? I don't have
the plans in front of me right now so I don't know.
No doubt the individual build (wing location, resultant loaded CG, etc) will affect
the cruising attitude/incidence of a particular fuselage, so perhaps it is
all a wash and there is no point even trying to consider it, other than taking
a stab and just moving the seat back a little.
When my Piet is finished I'll put an angle finder on the top longeron during cruise
and share my data.
[Wink]
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453298#453298
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| Subject: | Corvair Engines Wanted |
I have decided that a Corvair engine is desirable for my project and am looking
for a couple or three core engines. Would like to find an RD, RF, RH, RX, RK,
RA, RJ, RE, or RG engine or two. Would consider the YN, YM, SZ or ZG engines
or any of the Y , Z or W series engines that have the 8409 crank.
M. Haught
479-586-4241
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
The promised w&b articles.
Best,
-john-
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 7:52 AM, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
wrote:
>
<jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
>
> I will post it to the list later today when I get to my hotel.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 5:17 AM, johnnysdrop <johnnysdrop@googlemail.com>
wrote:
>>
<johnnysdrop@googlemail.com>
>>
>> Is the Brodhead / WW W&B calculator available online?
>> English Johnny
>> STILL building wings
>>
>> --------
>> The only way is UP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453205#453205
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
Thanks John, I appreciate the help.
Many thanks,
English Johnny
--------
The only way is UP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453306#453306
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
John,
Thanks so much for sending the PDF of these articles. I just managed to find all
of them but one in my back issues. So your sending them was extremely helpful.
Am I paid up for the news letter, or what do I owe? I'm happy to receive the letter
electronically, but I still want to be current for the charges. I don't
want to miss any issues.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
843 Jay Street
Colusa, CA 95932
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 5:12 PM, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com> wrote:
>
> The promised w&b articles.
>
> Best,
> -john-
> <Pietenpol Weight and Balance.pdf>
>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 7:52 AM, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I will post it to the list later today when I get to my hotel.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 5:17 AM, johnnysdrop <johnnysdrop@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Is the Brodhead / WW W&B calculator available online?
>>> English Johnny
>>> STILL building wings
>>>
>>> --------
>>> The only way is UP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453205#453205
>
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| Subject: | Re: weight & balance yet again |
The firewall moves in these aircraft too!!
[Wink]
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453325#453325
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot seat back angle |
I'm about two weekends away from making my first flights of 2016 in Scout, and
I will definitely take an angle finder (iPhone app) with me and measure the top
longeron angle in level cruise flight. Fun!
As to the angle of the seat back, I wouldn't know or care what it is because I
rarely, if ever, recline against it in flight. Most flights, all I want to do
is stay in the lee of the windscreen so I can hear the radio in my headset, or
to stay out of the slipstream buffet, so I'm leaning forward in my seat. The
only time I can lean back in leisurely flight with everything hanging out is
in the peak of summer when I'm in a tee shirt and shorts and just wearing a canvas
flying helmet with hearing protectors and NORDO, with elbows hanging on
the coamings. As Air Camper flying was intended to be!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
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