---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/29/16: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:54 AM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (Dave'sPiet) 2. 08:00 AM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (PatrickW) 3. 08:09 AM - weight & balance yet again (Elizabeth Cooper) 4. 09:11 AM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (Bill Church) 5. 01:15 PM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (Dave'sPiet) 6. 01:36 PM - Corvair Engines Wanted (H. Marvin Haught) 7. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (John Hofmann) 8. 05:34 PM - Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (johnnysdrop) 9. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! (Ray Krause) 10. 09:17 PM - Re: weight & balance yet again (Dave'sPiet) 11. 10:01 PM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot seat back angle From: "Dave'sPiet" If you are determined to move the seat back angle for comfort, then you would need to know what the aircraft's exact attitude is while in cruise flight... because the angle of the seat back would be measured from that reference point, and not from the upper longeron, correct? Does anybody have any data regarding the angle of the fuselage during cruise flight? I would expect that the upper longeron is not level in this aircraft, but who knows? Any input appreciated [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453282#453282 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot seat back angle From: "PatrickW" Suggest that a "target angle" could be obtained by going out to your car and measuring the seat-back angle of your driver's seat (which is probably already set to a comfortable angle). With the Piet fuselage it would be much easier to decrease the seatback angle if you ever need to, versus increasing it... Patrick Hoyt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453287#453287 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:35 AM PST US From: Elizabeth Cooper Subject: Pietenpol-List: weight & balance yet again Goodmorrow Pietenpeople,The list has been awfully quiet of late, so I thought I would add my two cent's worth. Although I'm not sure it is worth $.02. First I would like to ask if there is any update on Matt Dralle's health? I hope he is doing well. So... I have been following the W & B discussion. There has been a lot of good info, albeit, so much so that it could overwhelm a newcomer. My concern is: Why on earth would you choose to use a datum that moves? I have read several articles that stated you can use any point on the aircraft as a datum. ie: the tip of the spinner, the prop face plate, et al. I have chosen to use the firewall. It is a solid fixed location on the air frame. It is easy to measure from and most times you don't have to bother with a plumb bob. Supposing you have used the leading edge.If you slant the cabanes rearward and move the leading edge back 3", you must then go back and change every moment arm on your W & B sheet by 3" and recalculate. If I move my wing there is a slight change in the empty weight arm and a change to the arm of any fuel weight in the wing. The remaining pilot wt, passenger wt, oil wt, coolant wt, prop wt, header tank wt, etc arms all remain the same. And, should you move the wing again, it starts all over. Just a thought. I have not fabricated my engine mount as yet, or more correctly, had it built ( I will not trust my life to any welding I might learn to do). If I do my math correctly, I am hoping I will not have to move the wing. Wish me luck. Well folks, this has been my opinion. Take it as you may. Those of you who have finished your builds, go out and enjoy flight. The rest of us will have to keep plugging away. Yours, Scott Bartko low and slow with the top down ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot seat back angle From: "Bill Church" I think, for the purposes of this discussion, we can assume the top longeron to be level during cruise flight. I'm not aware of anyone measuring the actual conditions in flight, but air-to-air photos of Piets in flight don't appear to indicate any appreciable deviation from level. For reference, one degree of incidence would translate to approximately 3 inches of slope over the length of the fuselage. Therefore, setting the slope of the pilot's seat back based on the assumption that the top longeron will be level during cruise would be a reasonable approach to take. Bill C. Davespiet wrote: > If you are determined to move the seat back angle for comfort, then you would need to know what the aircraft's exact attitude is while in cruise flight... because the angle of the seat back would be measured from that reference point, and not from the upper longeron, correct? > > Does anybody have any data regarding the angle of the fuselage during cruise flight? I would expect that the upper longeron is not level in that flight regime, but who knows... > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453293#453293 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot seat back angle From: "Dave'sPiet" Bill, I suppose one could assume that the top longeron is level in flight, but BHP designed the original Ford engine mount to be angled downwards to account for the fact that the fuselage had a nose high attitude in cruise flight, as he felt that the engine should be pointed in the direction that the airframe was actually traveling through the air... If this was in fact true, then the top longeron was not inline with the thrust line at that point in the development of the Piet. From what I understand, most engine mounts in Piets these days are built with the engine parallel to the firewall, which will no nothing to decrease that angle of incidence of the fuselage during cruise flight. I don't know whether BHPs first Piet design had the different cabane heights from front to rear, so perhaps he added incidence to the wing with a later cabane specification, which effectively lowered the fuselage incidence? I don't have the plans in front of me right now so I don't know. No doubt the individual build (wing location, resultant loaded CG, etc) will affect the cruising attitude/incidence of a particular fuselage, so perhaps it is all a wash and there is no point even trying to consider it, other than taking a stab and just moving the seat back a little. When my Piet is finished I'll put an angle finder on the top longeron during cruise and share my data. [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453298#453298 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:32 PM PST US From: "H. Marvin Haught" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engines Wanted I have decided that a Corvair engine is desirable for my project and am looking for a couple or three core engines. Would like to find an RD, RF, RH, RX, RK, RA, RJ, RE, or RG engine or two. Would consider the YN, YM, SZ or ZG engines or any of the Y , Z or W series engines that have the 8409 crank. M. Haught 479-586-4241 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:59 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! The promised w&b articles. Best, -john- > On Feb 26, 2016, at 7:52 AM, John Hofmann wrote: > > > I will post it to the list later today when I get to my hotel. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 26, 2016, at 5:17 AM, johnnysdrop wrote: >> >> >> Is the Brodhead / WW W&B calculator available online? >> English Johnny >> STILL building wings >> >> -------- >> The only way is UP >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453205#453205 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! From: "johnnysdrop" Thanks John, I appreciate the help. Many thanks, English Johnny -------- The only way is UP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453306#453306 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:10 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage to build! John, Thanks so much for sending the PDF of these articles. I just managed to find all of them but one in my back issues. So your sending them was extremely helpful. Am I paid up for the news letter, or what do I owe? I'm happy to receive the letter electronically, but I still want to be current for the charges. I don't want to miss any issues. Thanks, Ray Krause 843 Jay Street Colusa, CA 95932 Sent from my iPad > On Feb 29, 2016, at 5:12 PM, John Hofmann wrote: > > The promised w&b articles. > > Best, > -john- > > >> On Feb 26, 2016, at 7:52 AM, John Hofmann wrote: >> >> >> I will post it to the list later today when I get to my hotel. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 5:17 AM, johnnysdrop wrote: >>> >>> >>> Is the Brodhead / WW W&B calculator available online? >>> English Johnny >>> STILL building wings >>> >>> -------- >>> The only way is UP >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453205#453205 > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: weight & balance yet again From: "Dave'sPiet" The firewall moves in these aircraft too!! [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453325#453325 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot seat back angle From: "taildrags" I'm about two weekends away from making my first flights of 2016 in Scout, and I will definitely take an angle finder (iPhone app) with me and measure the top longeron angle in level cruise flight. Fun! As to the angle of the seat back, I wouldn't know or care what it is because I rarely, if ever, recline against it in flight. Most flights, all I want to do is stay in the lee of the windscreen so I can hear the radio in my headset, or to stay out of the slipstream buffet, so I'm leaning forward in my seat. The only time I can lean back in leisurely flight with everything hanging out is in the peak of summer when I'm in a tee shirt and shorts and just wearing a canvas flying helmet with hearing protectors and NORDO, with elbows hanging on the coamings. As Air Camper flying was intended to be! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453327#453327 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.