Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Thu 03/03/16


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:53 AM - Re: welding 4130 hinges (JERRY)
     2. 06:32 AM - Re: Marine plywood (Bill Church)
     3. 07:31 AM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (Dave'sPiet)
     4. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Pilot seat back angle (Jack Philips)
     5. 01:55 PM - Re: Laminating plywood. (Pocono John)
     6. 10:08 PM - Re: Pilot seat back angle (Dave'sPiet)
     7. 10:18 PM - Dave's Piet Build (Dave'sPiet)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:53:45 AM PST US
    From: "JERRY" <jerry@SKYCLASSIC.NET>
    Subject: welding 4130 hinges
    Also if you cool the metal to fast it will become very brittle and can brake easy. The metal must cool at room temp. Jerry Sky Classic Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CatDesigns Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 8:46 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: welding 4130 hinges Dan I'm not an expert but I have done all the welding on my Pietenpol using Oxy fuel. Typically 4130 welds easily. The only time I have gotten brittle welds is when I over heat the weld. Questions I can think of. Are you sure you have a soft neutral flame? Are you using too small of a tip so it takes a lot of heat to start the weld puddle thus over heating the metal or too big of a tip so it heats really fast and over heats the metal? What welding rod are you using? Chris Sacramento, CA WestcoastPiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danoliver Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 3:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: welding 4130 hinges --> <danoliver909@gmail.com> Has anyone had any trouble with brittle welds? I am new to all of this so don't rule out rookie error. I have spent the last couple weeks trying to fab the empennage hinges to no avail. I am using .090 4130 steel from AS&S and an oxy/acetylene welder. My welds are easily broken and when you look at the breaks they look crystalline. As an experiment I decided to try several methods of simply welding two flat pieces of steel together including; preheating, postheating, reheating, over penetration, under penetration, filler rod, and no filler rod. All with the same result, I can bend them to about 30 degrees and then they snap. The worst part is that I can grab any piece of scrap steel laying around my garage, cut it in half, and weld it back together with ease. Is there some special procedure needed to weld 4130? Do I even need to use 4130? Bernard doesn't call for it in the plans. Please help. -------- Dan O Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453369#453369 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:32:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Marine plywood
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    John, Many Pietenpol builders have used Marine Plywood in building their aircraft. BS 1088 ensures that the laminates are sound, with no knot holes, and that they are bonded with truly waterproof adhesives (the plywood must actually pass a test in which the plywood is immersed in boiling water, without de-laminating.) Aircraft plywood is subject to these same requirements. Most of the plywood in my project is B1088 Okoume Marine Ply. 3mm is actually just shy of 1/8" (as opposed to 3/32"), and would be considered as "overkill" to be used where 1/16" is called for. However, you say that you have completed your ribs. That is where most of the 1/16" ply is called for in the Air Camper. I don't have my plans handy, but offhand, I don't recall any other 1/16" ply in the plans. If there is, it isn't much. You can use 3mm for the fuselage sides, and anywhere the plans call for 1/8", and 5 or 6mm for the fuselage floor. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453384#453384


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:31:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pilot seat back angle
    From: "Dave'sPiet" <helicfii@yahoo.com>
    Oscar- Looking forward to your data. Clif- your Kung fu is better than mine... Has any one ever collected ROC data for the Pietenpol at MGW with the Ford, Continental & Corvair? It would be very helpful as far as selecting an engine & prop..... [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453386#453386


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:15:55 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Philips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
    Subject: Re: Pilot seat back angle
    Dave, the problem is that most Pietenpols vary as much in Gross Weight as they do in any other measurement. But I can tell you that with mine (GW 1195 lbs) on a hot day at gross weight my rate of climb (A65 Continental, and this was with a Sensenich 72 x 42 prop) was right at 100 fpm (which is the FAA's definition of Service Ceiling). This was from a runway at 275' MSL. Density altitude was probably around 2,000'. I limit mine to passengers of 180 lbs. or less, which pretty well limits it to pretty young women. I find that anyone over that weight generally has trouble folding themselves into the front cockpit anyway. Young women (especially pretty ones) don't seem to suffer much from this, particularly when a helping hand is offered. Since I changed to a Cloudcars 76 x 38 prop my climb is improved by about 30%. Of course, at gross weight, this means climbing at 130 fpm rather than 100. This is a difference without a difference. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave'sPiet Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2016 10:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot seat back angle Oscar- Looking forward to your data. Clif- your Kung fu is better than mine... Has any one ever collected ROC data for the Pietenpol at MGW with the Ford, Continental & Corvair? It would be very helpful as far as selecting an engine & prop..... [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453386#453386


    Message 5


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    Time: 01:55:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Laminating plywood.
    From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com>
    I wouldn't use it for anything structural (my opinion as I'm not an engineer). The 1/8" I use for structural locations is 3 ply in compliance with MIL-P-6070. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453397#453397


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:08:48 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pilot seat back angle
    From: "Dave'sPiet" <helicfii@yahoo.com>
    Thanks, Jack- that was helpful. 100 fpm is not a fun pace to be... I've been looking for a C85 for over a month now, and there aren't too many laying around. I heard that Cloud cars is no longer making props- how unfortunate. BTW, moving the top of the pilot seat back aft by 2 inches gives you approx seat angle of 11.5 degrees. This is how I plan to build mine. No doubt the cabanes will have to come even further after now. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453406#453406


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:18:33 PM PST US
    Subject: Dave's Piet Build
    From: "Dave'sPiet" <helicfii@yahoo.com>
    This is day one of my build. My wood showed up today. I'm building the long fuselage. I'll post pics here as things progress. I'm getting ready to cut the vertical struts for the fuselage, and the plans call for 1 x 7/8 and 1 x 3/4 struts. Looking at pictures of other builds, I could swear that I see people using 1x1 for some of the struts. Perhaps it is just an optical illusion. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453408#453408 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20160303_174934_943.jpg




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