Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:27 AM - Re: Pauls Piet Build (AircamperN11MS)
2. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Marcus Zechini)
3. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Jack Philips)
4. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Scott Knowlton)
5. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Marcus Zechini)
6. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Jack Philips)
7. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Scott Knowlton)
8. 08:10 PM - Re: Pauls Piet Build (nightmare)
9. 08:36 PM - Re: Pauls Piet Build (Bill Church)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Paul,
I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder. I see
you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a balance cable
to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on both rudder horns
at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at the same time as if
applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that type of load and will
pull away from the rudder's front spar.
The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles connecting
the two together. The cable should be routed under the front seat and to the
rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from above. So that if you push
forward on the left peddle, the right one will move to the rear.
I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the balance
cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same time.
Respectfully,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
> Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Paul,
>
> I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder.
> I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a
> balance cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on
> both rudder horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at
> the same time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that
> type of load and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
>
> The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
> connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
> seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from
> above. So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will
> move to the rear.
>
> I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
> balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
> time.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot
and installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine,
but the new pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans
this time.
I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The
originals had turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for
C.G. purposes and would probably not have survived a crash if the plane
turned turtle, which means the pilot would likely not survive. The new
struts are much stronger.
William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my
diagonals would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took
me a few years to get around to it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus
Zechini
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org
<mailto:Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > wrote:
<Scott.liefeld@lacity.org <mailto:Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> >
Paul,
I just spotted something you should address before you break your
rudder. I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should
add a balance cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting
pressure on both rudder horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both
rudder peddles at the same time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder
horns can't take that type of load and will pull away from the rudder's
front spar.
The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from
above. So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one
will move to the rear.
I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require
the balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at
the same time.
Respectfully,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Jack, I'm very close to the stage of fabricating the diagonals. Yours look g
reat! What kind of streamlined material did you use?
Scott Knowlton
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Jack Philips <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote
:
>
> Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot an
d installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine, but the n
ew pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans this time.
>
> I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The originals h
ad turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for C.G. purposes an
d would probably not have survived a crash if the plane turned turtle, which
means the pilot would likely not survive. The new struts are much stronger
.
>
>
>
> William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my diagona
ls would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took me a few y
ears to get around to it.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Zechini
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
>
> Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
>
> On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrot
e:
ty.org>
>
> Paul,
>
> I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder.
I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a balan
ce cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on both rud
der horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at the same
time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that type of l
oad and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
>
> The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles conne
cting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front seat and
to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from above. So that
if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will move to the rear
.
>
> I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
time.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.builder
sbooks.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
I worry a bit about those diagonals. I don't have them, and I have a front
pax door, too! It is a Grega, but don't know why no diagonals.
On Mar 22, 2016 2:53 PM, "Jack Philips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote:
> Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot
> and installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine, but
> the new pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans this
> time.
>
>
> I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The originals
> had turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for C.G. purposes
> and would probably not have survived a crash if the plane turned turtle,
> which means the pilot would likely not survive. The new struts are much
> stronger.
>
>
> William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my
> diagonals would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took me
> a few years to get around to it.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Zechini
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
>
>
> Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
>
> On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
> wrote:
>
> Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Paul,
>
> I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder.
> I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a
> balance cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on
> both rudder horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at
> the same time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that
> type of load and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
>
> The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
> connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
> seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from
> above. So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will
> move to the rear.
>
> I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
> balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
> time.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> www.buildersbooks.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
It is streamlined steel (4130) tubing. I'm not sure what size but I'll
measure it tomorrow.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
Jack, I'm very close to the stage of fabricating the diagonals. Yours look
great! What kind of streamlined material did you use?
Scott Knowlton
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Jack Philips <jack@bedfordlandings.com
<mailto:jack@bedfordlandings.com> > wrote:
Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot and
installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine, but the
new pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans this time.
I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The originals
had turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for C.G. purposes
and would probably not have survived a crash if the plane turned turtle,
which means the pilot would likely not survive. The new struts are much
stronger.
William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my diagonals
would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took me a few
years to get around to it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus
Zechini
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org
<mailto:Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > wrote:
<Scott.liefeld@lacity.org <mailto:Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> >
Paul,
I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder. I
see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a balance
cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on both rudder
horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at the same
time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that type of
load and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from above.
So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will move to
the rear.
I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
time.
Respectfully,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
==========
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com <http://w.buildersbooks.com> " rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
==========
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
thanks Scott. I may do that, but ive got heel brakes so probably less likely for
that to happen.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454009#454009
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Paul,
The phenomenon Scott was referring to doesn't have anything to do with the type
of brakes you have (or don't have). What he's talking about is the all too real
possibility of pushing forward on both rudder pedals at the same time - especially
in situations like those experienced with gusty crosswinds, when the
rudder gets a workout, or in a moment of panic. Without the balance cable that
Scott referred to, there's a very good chance that you'll end up over stressing
the rudder horn at the other ends of the cables that are attached to the pedals.
With a rudder bar, as per the plans, it isn't a concern, since the rudder bar doesn't
bend (or at least, it isn't supposed to), so, when you push on one side,
the bar pivots in the middle, avoiding having the cable pulling on both sides.
It will be a lot easier to add the cable loop now than it will after the plane
is finished.
Something to seriously think about.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454010#454010
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