---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/23/16: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:55 AM - paul's build (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 05:57 AM - Re: Pauls Piet Build (AircamperN11MS) 3. 06:39 AM - Re: paul's build (Jack Philips) 4. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Steven Dortch) 5. 06:51 AM - Re: paul's build (Steven Dortch) 6. 08:43 AM - cabane brace diagonals (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Jack Philips) 8. 09:08 AM - Re: cabane brace diagonals (Jack Philips) 9. 09:25 AM - Re: cabane brace diagonals (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 10. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Scott Knowlton) 11. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: cabane brace diagonals (Steven Dortch) 12. 11:10 AM - Re: cabane brace diagonals (Marcus Zechini) 13. 11:54 AM - Re: paul's build (Graham Hansen) 14. 01:33 PM - Re: paul's build (Steven Dortch) 15. 01:37 PM - Re: Pauls Piet Build (Bill Church) 16. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Pauls Piet Build (Steven Dortch) 17. 02:22 PM - Re: paul's build (Graham Hansen) 18. 04:00 PM - Re: paul's build (Steven Dortch) 19. 04:37 PM - Re: paul's build (Graham Hansen) 20. 05:20 PM - Re: paul's build (Marcus Zechini) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:24 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: paul's build With the original rudder bar, the only pressure that can be transferred to the rudder horn is the pressure intended by the foot to pull the rudder over. IF/when pressure is placed on both sides of the bar, the pivot point takes the stress and it isn't transferred to the horn. If rudder pedals are installed instead of the bar, one could press on both pedals and those stresses to straight to the rudder horn, not good. Pressure from both feet happens more than one would expect. As mentioned, during rough landings, we often inadvertently push both sides. Even cruising around, I find both feet putting some pressure on the bar. IF replacing the rudder bar with pedals, there absolutely must be some sort of cable system as mentioned to eliminate this issue. Another option is to use a rudder bar up front and run hook your back pedals to the bar and let the bar's pivot point take the stress. I feel this is a must. Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build From: "AircamperN11MS" Paul, Even if you just put pressure on both pedals at the same time to re-arrange your butt in the seat, you could break the rudder horns from the structure. It's not that it can happen but more of it WILL happen should you not install the cables. It's just a matter of time. I have seen it happen. The other way to address it is to put a slave horn in the fuselage somewhere behind the pilots seat but this only adds to the tail heavy/complexity issues most have. Very Highly recommended. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454016#454016 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:44 AM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: paul's build Douwe (and Paul), Putting a rudder bar in the front cockpit only alleviates the potential problem of putting tension on both rudder horns if pushrods are used to connect the rear rudder pedals to the front rudder bar. If cables and springs are used, the rear pedals can still both be pushed and put tension on both rudder horns. The crossover cable suggested by Scott is a better solution, if for some reason rudder pedals simply have to be used in the rear cockpit. This seems like another area where one simple change from the original, time-tested design causes other changes to ripple through the project, adding weight and complication. SIMPLICATE AND ADD LIGHTNESS! As Marcus Zechinni hinted, I broke the rudder bar pivot bolt in mine last spring, which definitely shows that it is possible to put a good deal of stress on the pedals/bar. It turned out that the bolt broke due to cracks caused by welding without removing the cadmium plating, with Hydrogen embrittlement the likely culprit. I brazed the new one (after removing the cad plating with muriatic acid) per the plans. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:52 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: paul's build With the original rudder bar, the only pressure that can be transferred to the rudder horn is the pressure intended by the foot to pull the rudder over. IF/when pressure is placed on both sides of the bar, the pivot point takes the stress and it isn't transferred to the horn. If rudder pedals are installed instead of the bar, one could press on both pedals and those stresses to straight to the rudder horn, not good. Pressure from both feet happens more than one would expect. As mentioned, during rough landings, we often inadvertently push both sides. Even cruising around, I find both feet putting some pressure on the bar. IF replacing the rudder bar with pedals, there absolutely must be some sort of cable system as mentioned to eliminate this issue. Another option is to use a rudder bar up front and run hook your back pedals to the bar and let the bar's pivot point take the stress. I feel this is a must. Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build From: Steven Dortch I don't have a rudder bar, but I will look over my system and see what was done on my piet rudder system. If a safety rudder cable is installed I would think about running the cable through a small block of sacrificial phenolic block to prevent sawing on the wood structure. The phenolic block is light, wears well, is slick and won't add resistance to the cable. Also, I am used to using phenolic and I have plenty on hand. Blue skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: paul's build From: Steven Dortch Jack, you did not use the correct terminology! It is simplificate and add lightness! If done properly I will help with the levelidity when you formate in flight .. ;=C3=97} Steve D On Mar 23, 2016 8:42 AM, "Jack Philips" wrote: > Douwe (and Paul), > > > Putting a rudder bar in the front cockpit only alleviates the potential > problem of putting tension on both rudder horns if pushrods are used to > connect the rear rudder pedals to the front rudder bar. If cables and > springs are used, the rear pedals can still both be pushed and put tensio n > on both rudder horns. The crossover cable suggested by Scott is a better > solution, if for some reason rudder pedals simply have to be used in the > rear cockpit. This seems like another area where one simple change from > the original, time-tested design causes other changes to ripple through t he > project, adding weight and complication. SIMPLICATE AND ADD LIGHTNESS! > > > As Marcus Zechinni hinted, I broke the rudder bar pivot bolt in mine last > spring, which definitely shows that it is possible to put a good deal of > stress on the pedals/bar. It turned out that the bolt broke due to crack s > caused by welding without removing the cadmium plating, with Hydrogen > embrittlement the likely culprit. I brazed the new one (after removing t he > cad plating with muriatic acid) per the plans. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Douwe Blumberg > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:52 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: paul's build > > > With the original rudder bar, the only pressure that can be transferred t o > the rudder horn is the pressure intended by the foot to pull the rudder > over. IF/when pressure is placed on both sides of the bar, the pivot poi nt > takes the stress and it isn=99t transferred to the horn. If rudder pedals > are installed instead of the bar, one could press on both pedals and thos e > stresses to straight to the rudder horn, not good. Pressure from both fee t > happens more than one would expect. As mentioned, during rough landings, > we often inadvertently push both sides. Even cruising around, I find bot h > feet putting some pressure on the bar. > > > IF replacing the rudder bar with pedals, there absolutely must be some > sort of cable system as mentioned to eliminate this issue. > > > Another option is to use a rudder bar up front and run hook your back > pedals to the bar and let the bar=99s pivot point take the stress. > > > I feel this is a must. > > > Douwe > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:34 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace diagonals Marcus=3B The reason why the Grega does not have the diagonals is because of the geom etry of the wing attachments at the top of the cabanes. The Pietenpol Air Camper wing can pivot on the four cabane struts so it either needs cable X- braces between the side cabane struts or diagonal braces to restrain everyt hing from pivoting. The Grega Aircamper mounts the wing to the cabane stru ts with the bolts inserted longitudinally=2C so there is no pivoting of the wing. To see the effect on adjustable braces when you put an Air Camper over on i ts back=2C here's what 41CC's braces looked like after it happened: http:// www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PB130010.JPG . Once the assembly yields at any point=2C it folds up like a two dollar suitcase=2C thus the emphasi s on connecting the diagonals to the uprights rigidly. Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:07 AM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build Scott, I just measured the cabane diagonal struts and they are made of streamlined 4130 steel tubing with a major axis of 1.349", minor axis .571", wall thickness .049. Here are some pictures showing their construction: First step was to accurately locate the holes to match the adjustable diagonals which they are to replace. Then, steel tubing was inserted in the holes. The tubes were then welded in place and cut to length. Then the ends of the struts were cut and trimmed to fit the existing fittings. This is the top end of the diagonal, which has to fit over a tab welded to the front of the forward Cabane strut. Here is the bottom end of the diagonal. Note the length of tubing required to fill the space between the top engine mounts, where the diagonal strut attaches. To see how I made my forward cabane struts to attach the diagonals, look at the next two pictures: This is the top of the forward cabane strut. The slotted tab fits into a slot at the front of the strut and is "pinned" by the tube which runs through the strut, then the whole assembly is welded together. Simple, lightweight and strong. Here you can see how the tube pins the tab for the diagonal. Here is the final assembly, installed on the airplane: Sorry to bore you with so many pictures, but it occurred to me that if you are about to build your cabane struts this might be of interest to you. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Philips Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:53 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build It is streamlined steel (4130) tubing. I'm not sure what size but I'll measure it tomorrow. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 2:57 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build Jack, I'm very close to the stage of fabricating the diagonals. Yours look great! What kind of streamlined material did you use? Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Jack Philips > wrote: Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot and installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine, but the new pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans this time. I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The originals had turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for C.G. purposes and would probably not have survived a crash if the plane turned turtle, which means the pilot would likely not survive. The new struts are much stronger. William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my diagonals would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took me a few years to get around to it. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Zechini Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build Jack Phillips can, I've heard.... On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" > wrote: > Paul, I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder. I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a balance cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on both rudder horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at the same time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that type of load and will pull away from the rudder's front spar. The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from above. So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will move to the rear. I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same time. Respectfully, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983 ========== br> fts!) r> > w.buildersbooks.com " rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ========== br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:30 AM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace diagonals Oscar, that is the reason I elected to replace my "adjustable" diagonals with more rigid ones Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace diagonals Marcus; The reason why the Grega does not have the diagonals is because of the geometry of the wing attachments at the top of the cabanes. The Pietenpol Air Camper wing can pivot on the four cabane struts so it either needs cable X-braces between the side cabane struts or diagonal braces to restrain everything from pivoting. The Grega Aircamper mounts the wing to the cabane struts with the bolts inserted longitudinally, so there is no pivoting of the wing. To see the effect on adjustable braces when you put an Air Camper over on its back, here's what 41CC's braces looked like after it happened: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PB130010.JPG . Once the assembly yields at any point, it folds up like a two dollar suitcase, thus the emphasis on connecting the diagonals to the uprights rigidly. Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cabane brace diagonals From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" 1965 GN-1 plans Do show a diagonal brace. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454031#454031 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_186.jpeg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build From: Scott Knowlton Tm90IGJvcmluZyBJIHRoZSBsZWFzdC4gIFN1cGVyIGhlbHBmdWwuICBUaGFua3MgSmFjay4gIA0K DQpTY290dCBLIA0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lDQoNCj4gT24gTWFyIDIzLCAyMDE2LCBh dCAxMjozNCBQTSwgSmFjayBQaGlsaXBzIDxqYWNrQGJlZGZvcmRsYW5kaW5ncy5jb20+IHdyb3Rl Og0KPiANCj4gU2NvdHQsIEkganVzdCBtZWFzdXJlZCB0aGUgY2FiYW5lIGRpYWdvbmFsIHN0cnV0 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ZXJyZXIiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0 aW9uDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQo+ID09PT09PT09PT09 DQo+IGJyPiBlbnBvbC1MaXN0IiByZWw9Im5vcmVmZXJyZXIiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRw Oi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1BpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0DQo+ID09PT09PT09 PT09DQo+IEZPUlVNUyAtDQo+IGVmZXJyZXIiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwOi8vZm9ydW1z Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCj4gPT09PT09PT09PT0NCj4gYiBTaXRlIC0NCj4gICAgICAgICAgIC1N YXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCj4gcmVsPSJub3JlZmVycmVyIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFu ayI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KPiA9PT09PT09PT09PQ0K PiANCj4gDQo ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: cabane brace diagonals From: Steven Dortch My pietengrega has a diagonal brace. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace diagonals From: Marcus Zechini Thanks, Oscar & Jack! I like having my neck vertebrae where they are. That's a scary picture of 41CC -Zeke On Mar 23, 2016 12:23 PM, "Jack Philips" wrote: > Oscar, that is the reason I elected to replace my =9Cadjustable =9D diagonals > with more rigid ones > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Oscar Zuniga > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:28 AM > *To:* Pietenpol List > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: cabane brace diagonals > > > Marcus; > > The reason why the Grega does not have the diagonals is because of the > geometry of the wing attachments at the top of the cabanes. The Pietenpo l > Air Camper wing can pivot on the four cabane struts so it either needs > cable X-braces between the side cabane struts or diagonal braces > to restrain everything from pivoting. The Grega Aircamper mounts the win g > to the cabane struts with the bolts inserted longitudinally, so there is no > pivoting of the wing. > > To see the effect on adjustable braces when you put an Air Camper over on > its back, here's what 41CC's braces looked like after it happened: > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PB130010.JPG . Once the > assembly yields at any point, it folds up like a two dollar suitcase, thu s > the emphasis on connecting the diagonals to the uprights rigidly. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:46 AM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build Jack got it right. It is =9CSimplicate and add lightness.=9D Regardless, the message is the same. According to Tom Foxworth=99s book The Speed Seekers, page 82, the above quote is attributed to William (Bill) Bushnell Stout and was his lifelong doctrine. Bill Stout was responsible for the design of the all-metal Ford Trimotor transport. Cheers, Graham Hansen (builder of Pietenpol CF-AUN which I flew for nearly 43 years before donating it to a museum) From: Steven Dortch Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:50 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: paul's build Jack, you did not use the correct terminology! It is simplificate and add lightness! If done properly I will help with the levelidity when you formate in flight. ;=C3=97} Steve D On Mar 23, 2016 8:42 AM, "Jack Philips" wrote: Douwe (and Paul), Putting a rudder bar in the front cockpit only alleviates the potential problem of putting tension on both rudder horns if pushrods are used to connect the rear rudder pedals to the front rudder bar. If cables and springs are used, the rear pedals can still both be pushed and put tension on both rudder horns. The crossover cable suggested by Scott is a better solution, if for some reason rudder pedals simply have to be used in the rear cockpit. This seems like another area where one simple change from the original, time-tested design causes other changes to ripple through the project, adding weight and complication. SIMPLICATE AND ADD LIGHTNESS! As Marcus Zechinni hinted, I broke the rudder bar pivot bolt in mine last spring, which definitely shows that it is possible to put a good deal of stress on the pedals/bar. It turned out that the bolt broke due to cracks caused by welding without removing the cadmium plating, with Hydrogen embrittlement the likely culprit. I brazed the new one (after removing the cad plating with muriatic acid) per the plans. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:52 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: paul's build With the original rudder bar, the only pressure that can be transferred to the rudder horn is the pressure intended by the foot to pull the rudder over. IF/when pressure is placed on both sides of the bar, the pivot point takes the stress and it isn=99t transferred to the horn. If rudder pedals are installed instead of the bar, one could press on both pedals and those stresses to straight to the rudder horn, not good. Pressure from both feet happens more than one would expect. As mentioned, during rough landings, we often inadvertently push both sides. Even cruising around, I find both feet putting some pressure on the bar. IF replacing the rudder bar with pedals, there absolutely must be some sort of cable system as mentioned to eliminate this issue. Another option is to use a rudder bar up front and run hook your back pedals to the bar and let the bar=99s pivot point take the stress. I feel this is a must. Douwe ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build From: Steven Dortch Graham, disirregardless, I was just poking fun. After all the basic purpose of a piet is to have fun until you have arriven at your destination. But you know that having built and flown one extensively. My hat is off to you! Please chime in more often to share your experience! Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build From: "Bill Church" Steve, The balance cable needs to run backwards, then turn around 180 degrees, back to the other rudder pedal. You will need to use pulleys for directional changes like that - not just a phenolic block. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454046#454046 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build From: Steven Dortch Makes sense. Thanks Bill. Steve D On Mar 23, 2016 3:40 PM, "Bill Church" wrote: > billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Steve, > The balance cable needs to run backwards, then turn around 180 degrees, > back to the other rudder pedal. You will need to use pulleys for > directional changes like that - not just a phenolic block. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454046#454046 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:55 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build Steve, Yeah, I guess I am too serious and nitpicky. That happens to one after being a high school teacher for too many years. I sure had fun with my Piet, though. It was a great sportplane, but the climate here in central Alberta, Canada, is suitable for open cockpit flying only about five months of the year. The other seven months were not much fun and I put only about 860 hours on it because I always had other more comfortable airplanes to fly in winter. BTW, I had rudder pedals for the rear seat and a rudder bar for the front seat, connected by cables. There never was a problem with this setup. However, the idea of using a balance cable to avoid overstressing the rudder horn is a good one. Graham From: Steven Dortch Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build Graham, disirregardless, I was just poking fun. After all the basic purpose of a piet is to have fun until you have arriven at your destination. But you know that having built and flown one extensively. My hat is off to you! Please chime in more often to share your experience! Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build From: Steven Dortch Graham, did you ever fly it off of skis? A rancher in the Texas panhandle flew his Pietenpol on skis year round. When the short grass was dead and brown it was slick enough to use skis. He built the pietenpol and after a few lessons, taught himself to fly. He used it mostly to check his cattle and rarely left his ranch airspace. Blue skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:52 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build Steve, Oh, I did fly it on skis! In fact, the initial test flight November 15, 1970 was done with skis. I used to fly it at least once every month of the year and, in winter, was so heavily dressed that the cockpit was a tight fit=94even though I had made the fuselage two inches wider in the cockpit area than the plans specified. It was an excellent skiplane, but had a lousy heater. In later years, I rarely flew it during the winter because I wasn=99t as tough as I once was (just as crazy, though). I toyed with the idea of building a canopy for the rear cockpit, but never got around to doing so. However, nobody was interested in winter flying with me so I made a cover for the front pit and that helped some. I remember reading about the fellow in Texas who flew his on skis and rescued some blizzard-bound people. He must have been a tough and resourceful individual! Cheers, Graham From: Steven Dortch Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build Graham, did you ever fly it off of skis? A rancher in the Texas panhandle flew his Pietenpol on skis year round. When the short grass was dead and brown it was slick enough to use skis. He built the pietenpol and after a few lessons, taught himself to fly. He used it mostly to check his cattle and rarely left his ranch airspace. Blue skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build From: Marcus Zechini My Grega has Cub gear. Federal 1500s await in the hangar. The one good snow we had this winter blocked the hangar door. I will put them on, eventually. Zeke On Mar 23, 2016 7:40 PM, "Graham Hansen" wrote: > *Steve,* > > *Oh, I did fly it on skis! In fact, the initial test flight November 15, > 1970 was done with skis. I used to fly it at least once every month of th e > year and, in winter, was so heavily dressed that the cockpit was a tight > fit=94even though I had made the fuselage two inches wider in the c ockpit > area than the plans specified. It was an excellent skiplane, but had a > lousy heater. In later years, I rarely flew it during the winter because I > wasn=99t as tough as I once was (just as crazy, though). I toyed wi th the > idea of building a canopy for the rear cockpit, but never got around to > doing so. However, nobody was interested in winter flying with me so I ma de > a cover for the front pit and that helped some.* > > *I remember reading about the fellow in Texas who flew his on skis and > rescued some blizzard-bound people. He must have been a tough and > resourceful individual!* > > *Cheers,* > > *Graham* > > > *From:* Steven Dortch > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:59 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build > > > Graham, did you ever fly it off of skis? > > A rancher in the Texas panhandle flew his Pietenpol on skis year round. > When the short grass was dead and brown it was slick enough to use skis. He > built the pietenpol and after a few lessons, taught himself to fly. He us ed > it mostly to check his cattle and rarely left his ranch airspace. > > Blue skies, > Steve D > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.