---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/28/16: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:17 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 04/27/16 (Jim Keown) 2. 09:30 AM - disc sander (Jim Keown) 3. 11:53 AM - HF 12 in. disc sander (Timothy Willis) 4. 12:06 PM - Re: HF 12 in. disc sander (Fairfield, Mike) 5. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: disc sander (Dan Oliver) 6. 05:44 PM - wing stall angle (Douwe Blumberg) 7. 06:33 PM - Re: wing stall angle (tkreiner) 8. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: wing stall angle (Ken Bickers) 9. 07:14 PM - Fuselage Fuel tank (John Franklin) 10. 07:33 PM - Re: wing stall angle (taildrags) 11. 07:38 PM - Re: wing stall angle (tools) 12. 08:50 PM - Re: wing stall angle (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 04/27/16 From: Jim Keown Oscar, Try looking for a local woodworking club most will have newsletters online with items for sale. You can get some good deals. A lot of times people just want to clean out there shop. I would stay away from HF, I have used them before and considered HF as a short term tool. You should also look at Rikon tools I have had a few and they worked well and can get a deal when they go on sale. A few times a year Rikon sells tools at 15% off, but the best deal is when they discount a single tool. Jet tools are going having a 4 day sale in May. Call the Woodcraft store in Eugene (541) 685-0677 for more info. Also Woodcraft has a big sale in July. Here is woodworking club near you *Siskiyou Woodcraft Guild* 60 Fifth Street Ashland, OR 97520 Phone: 541-482-4829 Email: president@siskiyouguild.org Website: www.siskiyouguild.org Jim Keown On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server < pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-04-27&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-04-27&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 04/27/16: 14 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:56 AM - Re: Pietenpol Plans (AircamperN11MS) > 2. 07:18 AM - Re: Pietenpol Plans (tools) > 3. 08:20 AM - disc sander (Oscar Zuniga) > 4. 08:51 AM - Re: disc sander () > 5. 09:22 AM - Re: disc sander (Jack Textor) > 6. 10:11 AM - Re: disc sander (Tony Crawford) > 7. 11:22 AM - Re: Pietenpol Plans (John C Black) > 8. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol Plans (Glen Schweizer) > 9. 11:53 AM - Re: disc sander () > 10. 12:25 PM - Re: disc sander (Glen Schweizer) > 11. 12:29 PM - Re: disc sander (Lorenzo) > 12. 02:31 PM - Re: Pietenpol Plans (tools) > 13. 02:36 PM - Re: disc sander (tools) > 14. 07:27 PM - Re: disc sander (aviken) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:56:38 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > From: "AircamperN11MS" > > > Well Said Oscar, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455535#455535 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:18:32 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > From: "tools" > > > Some more food for thought... > > There are TONS of quick build Piet kits out there, otherwise known as > abandoned > projects. Most come with plans. > > There are also a lot of super quick build kits, otherwise known as damaged > or derelict > planes that don't even need plans. > > Nearly all are in the hands of someone who would rather see them go to a > good home > rather than scrapped. > > Worst case, wrong gear, fuse and you are worried about the wing... Build > new fuse > and new ribs. Still easier than scratch building, you get builders > certificate > if you want. > > Best case, restore an airplane, feel good about its airworthiness, and > have an > airplane you can sell with someone else's name on the AW cert. > > May or may not be what ya want, but worth considering. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455539#455539 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:20:39 AM PST US > From: Oscar Zuniga > Subject: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Folks=3B > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central Ma > chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost=2C but the comparabl > e Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy > -duty or production use=2C just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a > sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about eith > er or both of these units would be appreciated=3B thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford=2C OR > Air Camper NX41CC > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:51:15 AM PST US > From: > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Oscar, > I was in the same boat several years ago, I looked at both of them and chos > e to buy the HF bench top along with a 20% off coupon. I have been very ha > ppy with it and no complaints over the years. It is very heavy and solid a > nd does a great job, no vibrating or walking away. Sanding discs are easy > to change and I can hook up my shop-vac to it to collect the dust. For the > price and comparison the HF 12 inch bench top is a good choice. > > Brian > SLC-UT > N3218H > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-lis > t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 9:20 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Folks; > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central Ma > chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the comparable > Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy-d > uty or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a sand > er with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either o > r both of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:22:14 AM PST US > From: Jack Textor > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Oscar my HF has never let me down... > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > > > Folks; > > > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc > has > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central > Ma > chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the comparable > G > rizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for > heavy-dut > y or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a > sander w > ith more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either or > bot > h of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:11:04 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > From: Tony Crawford > > Oscar, > How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the > hinges out. > > Tony > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > > Folks; > > > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc > has > > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central > > Machinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the > > comparable Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is > not > > for heavy-duty or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I > just > > need a sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments > > about either or both of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:22:16 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > From: John C Black > > > Hi, > > Im new to the list. I just ordered plans and Im learning. Doc Mosher > was great > to work with. But I have a question. > > Is a CAD version of the plans available so we can use our local CNC > routers to > create some of the shapes ? > > John > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:44:27 AM PST US > From: Glen Schweizer > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > > > Hey John > Welcome! CAD? Please keep in mind the pietenpol. 1928,cutting steel out > of oil > drum lids(I've heard that was mr pietenpol' source of steel). Hardware > bolts > on the original. The point I'm trying to make is that there really are > things > that can be made by drawing on real paper or making patterns. Hell, the > originals > used nails driven into the floor for fuse jigs. Common, really? > Glen > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 27, 2016, at 11:21 AM, John C Black wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Im new to the list. I just ordered plans and Im learning. Doc Mosher > was great > to work with. But I have a question. > > > > Is a CAD version of the plans available so we can use our local CNC > routers to > create some of the shapes ? > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:53:52 AM PST US > From: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Hi Oscar: > > Glad you asked. I have a Harbor Freight 6 X 48 belt sander which has > the disc on the side to which you are referring. A couple years ago I > decided to get an adjustable table for the belt sander like the disc has > and ordered one from HF. Last summer accidently knocked it over and it > fell on the floor and broke the table. Called HF, and guess what? They > no longer sell the table. At Christmas, I bought one for my daughter and > called again and tried to buy a table thinking it was just a model > number or something kind of problem. No go. They don=99t sell > repair parts. > So if a another company sells repair parts, then that would be the > company to go with and screw HF. > Dennis > > From: Tony Crawford > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:10 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Oscar, > How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the > hinges out. > > Tony > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > Folks; > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc > has on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight > "Central Machinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but > the comparable Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This > is not for heavy-duty or production use, just for my shop and hobby > work. I just need a sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. > Any comments about either or both of these units would be appreciated; > thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC > > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:25:11 PM PST US > From: Glen Schweizer > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > HF is good considering what they are. If you want something that's going > to l > ast longer than us, pay 4x the price. HF is throw away quality: reasonably > a > ccurate, work the beans out of it and when it breaks,trash it. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 27, 2016, at 11:53 AM, > w > rote: > > > > Hi Oscar: > > > > Glad you asked. I have a Harbor Freight 6 X 48 belt sander which has > the > disc on the side to which you are referring. A couple years ago I decided > t > o get an adjustable table for the belt sander like the disc has and > ordered o > ne from HF. Last summer accidently knocked it over and it fell on the > floor a > nd broke the table. Called HF, and guess what? They no longer sell the > table > . At Christmas, I bought one for my daughter and called again and tried to > b > uy a table thinking it was just a model number or something kind of > problem. > No go. They don=99t sell repair parts. > > So if a another company sells repair parts, then that would be the > compa > ny to go with and screw HF. > > Dennis > > > > From: Tony Crawford > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:10 PM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > > > Oscar, > > How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the > hin > ges out. > > > > Tony > > > >> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga > wr > ote: > >> Folks; > >> > >> I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc > ha > s on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central > M > achinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the > comparable G > rizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for > heavy-dut > y or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a > sander w > ith more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either or > bot > h of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > >> > >> Oscar Zuniga > >> Medford, OR > >> Air Camper NX41CC > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:29:58 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: disc sander > From: "Lorenzo" > > > When I started my Piet build I thought it would be handy to have a large > disk sander > to trim and size the stick ends. (It has been one of my most useful tools.) > I settled on the HF 12". The 10" I examined in the store seemed too flimsy. > The 12" was heftier. I have been very happy with it. ShopVac plugs in > nicely > to keep dust down. I don't remember if the stand came with it, or if I had > to > buy that separately, but I recommend that too. > > Lorenzo > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455555#455555 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:31:08 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > From: "tools" > > > Generally available? Not that I know of. Someone has done it. Also more > and > more common for shops to be able to scan or trace so that the customer > doesn't > need to have things digitized first. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455569#455569 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:36:37 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: disc sander > From: "tools" > > > Hf and grizzly are the same quality, generally speaking. Hf imports and > sells > uninspected. Grizzly inspects and generally maintains parts. > > Matter of personal preference. > > My preference is to start beating the bushes and scare up an old delta, > Rockwell > or Milwaukee. Can be had for the same prices depending on condition. > > Ask around on owwm.org, see them often in the hunnert buck range. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455570#455570 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:27:17 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: disc sander > From: "aviken" > > > Hi Oscar,, I bought one of the disk sanders at Harbor Freight, it has > the flexible > head and uses the 8 inch Velcro type disks. I really like it, I bought > it to build my propeller and it worked great. Now I use it all the time > for > almost any quick sanding job.... I know the durability of these Chinese > made > motors are fairly short lived, but it seems to be a pretty good machine. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455575#455575 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: disc sander From: Jim Keown Oscar, Try looking for a local woodworking club most will have newsletters online with items for sale. You can get some good deals. A lot of times people just want to clean out there shop. I would stay away from HF, I have used them before and considered HF as a short term tool. You should also look at Rikon tools I have had a few and they worked well and can get a deal when they go on sale. A few times a year Rikon sells tools at 15% off, but the best deal is when they discount a single tool. Jet tools are going having a 4 day sale in May. Call the Woodcraft store in Eugene (541) 685-0677 for more info. Also Woodcraft has a big sale in July. Here is woodworking club near you *Siskiyou Woodcraft Guild* 60 Fifth Street Ashland, OR 97520 Phone: 541-482-4829 Email: president@siskiyouguild.org Website: www.siskiyouguild.org Jim Keown ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: HF 12 in. disc sander From: Timothy Willis =8BOscar, I bought the HF disc sander many years ago. it has very light use, since I am stuck on my build (health issues). However the sander has worked very well for me. It is heavy and robust, with high hp and apparently very good bearings. Tim in central TX. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:27 PM PST US From: "Fairfield, Mike" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: HF 12 in. disc sander SGV5IFBpZXRlbnBlb3BsZSwNCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEnigJltIGp1c3QgYSBwb29yIGJv eSwgc28gSSB0b29rIG15IGJlbHQgc2FuZGVyIGFuZCBwdXQgaXQgaW4gdGhlIHZpc2UgKHBhcGVy IHNpZGUgdXA7LSkgYW5kIEkgZm91bmQgaXQgZXhjZWxsZW50IGZvciB3aW5nIHJpYiBwYXJ0cy4g IEl04oCZcyBncmVhdCBiZWNhdXNlIGJvdGggaGFuZHMgYXJlIGZyZWUgdG8gaG9sZCB0aGUgcGFy dHMgc2FmZWx5LiAgV2hlbiB5b3UgaW5zdGFsbCBmaW5lIHBhcGVyIG9uIHRoZSBzYW5kZXIgYW5k IHB1dCB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGUgc3BlZWQgYSBsaXR0bGUgbG93ZXIsIEkgZmluZCBpdCB3b3JrcyBn cmVhdCEgIEp1c3QgYSB0aG91Z2h0LiAgSSBmaW5kIGl04oCZcyBhY3R1YWxseSBxdWl0ZSB2ZXJz YXRpbGUuDQoNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBLZWVwIGVtIGZseWluLi4uTWlrZS4NCg0KRnJvbTog b3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1w aWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIFRpbW90aHkg V2lsbGlzDQpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgQXByaWwgMjgsIDIwMTYgMjo1MyBQTQ0KVG86IG1hdHJv bmljcyBwaWV0IHNpdGUNClN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBIRiAxMiBpbi4gZGlzYyBz YW5kZXINCg0K4oCLT3NjYXIsDQoNCkkgYm91Z2h0IHRoZSBIRiBkaXNjIHNhbmRlciBtYW55IHll YXJzIGFnby4gIGl0IGhhcyB2ZXJ5IGxpZ2h0IHVzZSwgc2luY2UgSSBhbSBzdHVjayBvbiBteSBi dWlsZCAoaGVhbHRoIGlzc3VlcykuICBIb3dldmVyIHRoZSBzYW5kZXIgaGFzIHdvcmtlZCB2ZXJ5 IHdlbGwgZm9yIG1lLiAgSXQgaXMgaGVhdnkgYW5kIHJvYnVzdCwgd2l0aCBoaWdoIGhwIGFuZCBh cHBhcmVudGx5IHZlcnkgZ29vZCBiZWFyaW5ncy4NCg0KVGltIGluIGNlbnRyYWwgVFguDQo ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: disc sander From: Dan Oliver Who cares about sanders. I want to hear more about building props! On Apr 27, 2016 10:29 PM, "aviken" wrote: > > Hi Oscar,, I bought one of the disk sanders at Harbor Freight, it has > the flexible head and uses the 8 inch Velcro type disks. I really like > it, I bought it to build my propeller and it worked great. Now I use it > all the time for almost any quick sanding job.... I know the durability > of these Chinese made motors are fairly short lived, but it seems to be a > pretty good machine. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455575#455575 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:26 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing stall angle Hey all, Does anybody know at what angle to the relative wind a Pietenpol wing will stall?? Douwe ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing stall angle From: "tkreiner" Douwe, About the best information you'll find regarding the lift curve of the FC-10, or Pietenpol airfoil will be anectodal. After doing an exhaustive 'net search several years ago, I gave up after viewing some 50+ sites looking for the curve. In case folks out there don't know, Stall is defined as that point at which Clmax occurs. If you take a look at any airfoil lift curve, the highest point is the point of Stall, or Cl max. Have fun looking... -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455597#455597 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing stall angle From: Ken Bickers A quick search on the Matronics Pietenpol site using the keyword "clmax" produced a thread in which there a chart was posted with curves for the FC-10 and Riblett 613.5 airfoils. It was posted by ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com on August 20, 2009. According to that chart, the clmax for the Pietenpol airfoil is at approximately 16 degree angle of incidence. I cannot speak to its accuracy, though interesting to look at. Cheers, Ken On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 7:32 PM, tkreiner wrote: > > Douwe, > > About the best information you'll find regarding the lift curve of the > FC-10, or Pietenpol airfoil will be anectodal. > > After doing an exhaustive 'net search several years ago, I gave up after > viewing some 50+ sites looking for the curve. > > In case folks out there don't know, Stall is defined as that point at > which Clmax occurs. If you take a look at any airfoil lift curve, the > highest point is the point of Stall, or Cl max. > > Have fun looking... > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455597#455597 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:24 PM PST US From: John Franklin Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Fuel tank I'm making room in the hangar and I've got a fuselage-mount fuel tank that I need to sell. I believe it's a Spruce Aircraft p/n 05-19600 which is for a Smith Mini-plane. I tried to verify that but Spruce doesn't show a picture nor any specs on the tank. I emailed them and requested that information but they replied back that they were unable to send anything. If anyone interested in it, please email me offline and I'll send you pix of it. I've used it to run my engine on the ground but I've never flown with this tank. I think it's about a 14 gallon capacity. John Franklin GN-1 / Corvair 164cid Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing stall angle From: "taildrags" I knew I had seen that lift curve somewhere. Ken, thanks for digging it back up. Now, back to Douwe's original question, angle at Clmax is what he asked about (wing chord angle with respect to the relative wind), and that's what the lift curve is based on so it answers his question. However, it is not going to be the deck angle you might see if you were to put an angle finder on the longeron and (for example), perform a power-on stall, because the relative wind will very likely not be horizontal. Also as an extreme example, you can have the nose exactly on the horizon (airplane level) and start banking it steeper and steeper in a turn till it stalls.... with the airplane still level longitudinally but banked. Minor technicalities ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455603#455603 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing stall angle From: "tools" Well... While ALL wings under ALL conditions stall at Vstall... That actual number in miles per hour, which relates to a certain number of degrees to relative wind, just depends. On a lot of things. Many relevant like weight, how the plane is built, and rigged, blah blah blah. I'm guessing, and it is a guess, what you really want to know is an angle to help decide what angle YOUR plane should sit on it's gear, which is really really relevant to how you fly it. Sixteen is a good average number. And a great place to start. And in all fairness, I really don't know how much it changes with the usual variance between normalish piets. I do know I have to lap my stick after landing, and in a glastar taildragger which is well known for a flat sitting angle, if I do I go flying again when I do that. Just stuff to think about. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455604#455604 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing stall angle From: "taildrags" Tools: good point. I need to check it again, but I think my Piet sits at between a 12 and 13 degree angle on the ground, at rest. Piets with taller spoked wheels are probably going to be sitting a few more degrees nose-high than that. I suppose that means if I full-stall land my airplane properly, the tailwheel will touch down first. The good thing about most of the full-stall landings that I make is that I get to try them again, because I can never keep from rebounding anywhere from a little to a lot, especially on hard surface, so I get another shot at almost every landing ;o) At that point I have to decide 'save or wave'... if the rebound on touchdown was just a little bounce, I can hold the stick even more firmly back in my lap and wait for the ground to meet me in earnest, or if I bounced energetically back into the air on touchdown I push power back in, ease the stick forward to gain airspeed and stop the porpoising, and either fix it or go around. Since my home field is 8800' long, I have a lot of options unless United, Horizon, or Delta is on final behind me ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455614#455614 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.