Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 05/07/16


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:44 AM - Re landing split (dndboyd2@gmail.com)
     2. 05:22 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (Bill Church)
     3. 06:09 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (Catdesigns)
     4. 06:09 AM - Favor (Jerry Landley)
     5. 08:02 AM - Spruce instead of white ash (Pocono John)
     6. 09:32 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (Rick)
     7. 09:42 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (Pocono John)
     8. 10:03 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (Jack Philips)
     9. 10:23 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (tools)
    10. 10:30 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (Pocono John)
    11. 10:50 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (tools)
    12. 10:51 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (tools)
    13. 11:11 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (Pocono John)
    14. 04:51 PM - rudder cables and tape (Ralph)
    15. 09:55 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (aabreu)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:44:29 AM PST US
    From: dndboyd2@gmail.com
    Subject: Re landing split
    Andy Abreu is on the right track. See also my comments on the landing gear set up. I.e. A hard landing on the left side would exert a pull on the left and vice versa thus creating the split as we see it on the video. I didn't sign my commentyesterday on the same subject Dave Boyd Champaign IL Sent from my iPhone > On May 7, 2016, at 2:01 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-05-06&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-05-06&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 05/06/16: 14 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:04 AM - Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (AircamperN11MS) > 2. 06:12 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) > 3. 08:13 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) > 4. 08:25 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (aabreu) > 5. 08:34 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) > 6. 09:04 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 05/05/16 (dndboyd2@gmail.com) > 7. 09:19 AM - Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (TriScout) > 8. 10:16 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) > 9. 10:31 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) > 10. 11:59 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tkreiner) > 11. 12:12 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tkreiner) > 12. 12:51 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (aabreu) > 13. 01:08 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (aabreu) > 14. 01:50 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:04:25 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > > I wish I had been there. Great pics. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455919#455919 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:12:14 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > > Regarding Tools negative G comment. I hadn't thought of that either, but..... > I am now thinking that the three piece wing like I have would be more likely > to do that then a single piece wing. The three piece wing has a built in hinge > point just outside the center section. I am thinking that the single spar > would actually be stronger. > > Does this plane have a three piece wing? > > Very interesting observation Tools. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455921#455921 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:13:53 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> > > > Given the moment the wing strut has, I don't think a one piece would help. Wood > doesn't resist all that much for as much movement as is needed for that failure. > > I do believe the one piece is stronger to the point of being worthwhile though. > > > Need more of this stuff catalogued. Tons to be learned. > > My completely uneducated guess would be turbulence. It's benign enough to cause > it and go unnoticed for a while. Which begs the question, how did you find > it? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455923#455923 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:25:10 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000@yahoo.com> > > > > tools wrote: >> Given the moment the wing strut has, I don't think a one piece would help. Wood > doesn't resist all that much for as much movement as is needed for that failure. >> >> I do believe the one piece is stronger to the point of being worthwhile though. > >> >> Need more of this stuff catalogued. Tons to be learned. >> >> My completely uneducated guess would be turbulence. It's benign enough to cause > it and go unnoticed for a while. Which begs the question, how did you find > it? > > > Hi Tools, > > I'm an engineer by training. For what it's worth. > I agree that this failure could be a result of negative G's of some kind. > However, if you look at the video, we are lifting the right wing. This should > be putting a compressive load across the plywood. When flying, the strut is in > tension and the plywood should be in compression. So why does the crack open > up when we lift on the wing. I think it has something do with the right landing > gear with all the weight on one tire or the left hand tire hanging down. > Can't wrap my brain around it yet. But there is clearly a tension force pulling > the plywood apart when the airplane is put on one tire. Maybe this is could > be cause by a hard landing on the right tire. Speculation. > > Took some additional photos but nothing really stands out. > Like I said before, the gussets in the cockpit seem incorrectly sized. > > Thanks > Andy Abreu > 6186L > EAA582 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455924#455924 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:34:34 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > > Hi Andy, > > Air loads will be different than the loads you are putting on it while the plane > is on the ground. When you lift the wing, you are loading up the Right main > gear in compression, which is in turn putting a tension load on the Left main > gear. Does that make sense? In flight, there is no load on the landing gear. > > Another thought here, With the demonstration you have provided, maybe just a hard > landing on the right main caused this issue??? Not a negative G issue. > > Thoughts everyone, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455925#455925 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:04:43 AM PST US > From: dndboyd2@gmail.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 05/05/16 > > > Re the cracked fuse around the landing gear mounts. On my set up the wheels splay > outwards on landing and "pull" on the gear legs. This exerts a pull on the > opposite side of the fuse. This will explain the cracks seen on the longerons > on this airplane. Probably caused by a few hard landings and or improper building > technique i.e. Not strong enough. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On May 6, 2016, at 3:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >> wrote: >> >> * >> >> ================================================ >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================ >> >> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-05-05&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> Text Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-05-05&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> >> ============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Thu 05/05/16: 5 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> 1. 12:00 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) >> 2. 12:02 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) >> 3. 06:38 PM - Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (TriScout) >> 4. 09:14 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (taildrags) >> 5. 09:17 PM - Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (taildrags) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 12:00:40 PM PST US >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking >> From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> >> >> >> Wow, Do you happen to know what kind of glue was used during construction? > There >> must be some structural members broken as well. I am very curious to what >> you find and how you correct the issues. >> >> I am an EAA Tech Counselor and I try to stay educated so I can hopefully keep > someone >> else from having a similar issue. Please keep us posted. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> -------- >> Scott Liefeld >> Flying N11MS since March 1972 >> Steel Tube >> C-85-12 >> Wire Wheels >> Brodhead in 1996 >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455903#455903 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 12:02:20 PM PST US >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking >> From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> >> >> >> Wow. Definitely interested in hearing more once you check it out more carefully... >> >> Seems like a negative g induced failure, what ever the root cause. >> >> Also interested in the repair. >> >> Fwiw, I repaired a similar fabric issue like that with Stewarts. They are stc'ed >> for simple overlap patches in a case like that which will preclude recovering >> the entire fuse, at the cost of looks. >> >> If good enough for certificated planes.... And it just felt right, very tenacious >> adhesive. I'm a little leery of poly tak with standing the 350 deg shrink. >> >> Good luck with the repair, let us know more as you figure it all out. Man, I > feel >> a experimental AD coming on! Yikes. >> >> Tools >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455904#455904 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 06:38:41 PM PST US >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In >> From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber@yahoo.com> >> >> >> Nice day at KLNC. We had Lunch and then flight..3rd GN-1 fella flew formation > w/us, >> but in his Cherokee. I suppose we could call it a fly in.. >> >> -------- >> KLNC >> A65-8 >> N2308C >> Slick 4330's >> AN Hardware >> Airframe 755TT >> W72CK-42 Sensenich >> Standard Factory GN-1 >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455909#455909 >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8140_191.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8137_223.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8135_792.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8133_179.jpg >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 09:14:37 PM PST US >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking >> From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> >> >> >> Tools; another forehead-slapping "doh!" moment for me when you mentioned negative >> Gs. I was wondering to myself what could have pulled the strut attach fitting >> down so hard that the lower longeron split or pulled away from the uprights. >> A good downward push by the wing strut could sure do it!! As you know, one >> of the only (or at least the best known) inflight structural failures of an >> Air Camper resulted from a negative-G maneuver. We can only guess what caused >> this one... flying through a thunderstorm or wind shear? >> >> If finding this crack results in a thorough inspection of the major glue joints >> and structural mountings, it will have been worth it in peace of mind once everything >> is found to be airworthy or is repaired as needed. There will also be >> a springtime next year, if this spring ends up being make-and-mend or even a >> fabric recovering job for Eight-Six-Lima. >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; >> A75 power >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455915#455915 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 09:17:25 PM PST US >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In >> From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> >> >> >> I like the look of the silver on the wings and tail surfaces of Four-Sierra-Golf. >> The day looks like it was fun! >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; >> A75 power >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455916#455916 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:19:52 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In > From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber@yahoo.com> > > > yes, Sierra Golf has an 0-200 and an electrical sys, while mine is an A65 and none. > We seemed to have about the same cruise speed though, but of course when > we took off together, he climbed a bit better. Pic's were all cellphone photos. > I had gopro shots of SG inflight, but no zoom lense..it was a bit shakey. > > -------- > KLNC > A65-8 > N2308C > Slick 4330's > AN Hardware > Airframe 755TT > W72CK-42 Sensenich > Standard Factory GN-1 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455927#455927 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8143_207.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:16:47 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> > > > Thought about that, but then decided with the gear in the ground, you have an opposing > force to the momentum of the wing drooping? > > In flight, you wouldn't. > > HATE you've got damage, but a lot to be learned, and very impressed you caught > it! > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455930#455930 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:31:50 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > > Tools, > > I PM'd you rather than hijacking this important thread. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455931#455931 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:59:11 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner@gmail.com> > > > Andy, > >> From the pics, the strut attachment is for the forward strut. > > Your supposition regarding the gusset plates may be the issue, but I'm curious > about another feature that hasn't been discussed. > > On the plans, there's a steel strap shown on Sheet 3 of that plans called out (for > extra strength only, not for ordinary use). > > Does your ship have these straps? > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455934#455934 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:12:20 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner@gmail.com> > > > Andy, > > Could the information at this link have had anything to do with undetected damage > to the left landing gear? > > Here's the link: > > http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id 100126X43531&key=1 > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455935#455935 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:51:02 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000@yahoo.com> > > > > tkreiner wrote: >> Andy, >> >> From the pics, the strut attachment is for the forward strut. >> >> Your supposition regarding the gusset plates may be the issue, but I'm curious > about another feature that hasn't been discussed. >> >> On the plans, there's a steel strap shown on Sheet 3 of that plans called out > (for extra strength only, not for ordinary use). >> >> Does your ship have these straps? > > > Yes. Forward strut. > Yes. Have the strap. > > Andy Abreeu > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455936#455936 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:08:55 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000@yahoo.com> > > > > tkreiner wrote: >> Andy, >> >> Could the information at this link provide insight into any undetected damage > to the left landing gear? >> >> Here's the link: >> >> http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id 100126X43531&key=1 > > > Thanks for bringing that one up. Sheesh. I remember when that happened. A guy > in our club knocked the back wing off with the PAPI light on 22 at KTDZ. Knocked > out the PAPI light too.. which was way more expensive to fix than the horizontal > stab. Lesson here, land past the PAPI. Didn't damage the landing gear. > > > We do use this airplane for training. So we do get lots of hard landings in. > I tend to not fly this airplane in thunderstorms. Gust loading probably wasn't > a factor. The sharp impulse load that comes along with landing hard is my guess > along with poor workmanship. > > I have some pictures on my phone i'll download later. > Also, we are going to fix this by tomorrow. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures > for everyone. > > Thanks > Andy Abreu > 6186L > EAA 582 > Toledo Buzzards Light Sport Aircraft Club Inc. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455937#455937 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:50:29 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> > > > I also agree with dan's, different thread started, assessment. Seems most likely > if only one wheel hits, opposite to that crack. > > Other side is fine? > > I've cut a lot of joints apart only to find poor gluing technique. Not many failed, > but clearly weren't as strong as they should be. > > In floor tile setting, it's recommended you pull up the occasional tile as you > go along to ensure adequate adhesive and setting technique. Should do that gluing > up wood also. Consistent dimpling should be obvious, nothing not disturbed > or dry. Doesn't take long and gives a great sense of confidence. > > Tools, who's tested ALL his gear to failure! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455938#455938 > > > > > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:22:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Sure is odd to see plywood split like it does in that video. What's up with that? The whole point of plywood is to provide multi-directional strength and resistance to splitting. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455950#455950


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:09:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
    From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns@att.net>
    Any chance we could see some pictures of the inside as well as some more of the outside? thanks -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455951#455951


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:09:24 AM PST US
    From: "Jerry Landley" <airlangley@aol.com>
    Subject: Favor
    - This mail is in HTML. Some elements may be ommited in plain text. - I need you to do me a favor reply when you get this. Jerry <HTML><HEAD></HEAD> <BODY> <P>&nbsp;I need you to do me a favor reply when you get this.</P> <P>Jerry</P> <DIV style="CLEAR: both"> <DIV><FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif"></FONT>&nbs p;</DIV></DIV>


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:02:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Spruce instead of white ash
    From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com>
    I'm about to join the fuselage halves. The plans show those white ash boards. I can barely find plain ash let alone white ash. Anyone use spruce instead? Any reason why white ash is specified? Are there other options? Additionally, if you have any hints or advice on joining the halves, I'm all ears. Thank you -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455956#455956


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:32:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
    From: Rick <lmforge@earthlink.net>
    John, I would not substitute any other wood for the white ash. White ash is very strong in both tension and compression. That is why it is used in things like baseball bats, oars and tool handles. Since all the loads from the landing gear and the lift struts are transferred to these ash boards I would not use anything else. If you can't find a source locally, white ash is readily available through the Internet. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Valparaiso, IN Sent from my iPad > On May 7, 2016, at 10:02 AM, Pocono John <tinmotion@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I'm about to join the fuselage halves. The plans show those white ash boards. I can barely find plain ash let alone white ash. Anyone use spruce instead? Any reason why white ash is specified? Are there other options? > > Additionally, if you have any hints or advice on joining the halves, I'm all ears. > > Thank you > > -------- > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455956#455956 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:42:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
    From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com>
    Thank you Rick. You're quick! I deleted my question just a few minutes after posting. I found the answer after digging through the search feature. Thanks again! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455958#455958


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:03:25 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Philips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
    Subject: Spruce instead of white ash
    John, Ash takes some work to find, but if you go to a specialty lumber store you can find it. It IS important to use ash for the landing gear. Ever wonder why most work tools with wooden handles use Ash? Or why baseball bats are made of Ash? It is because of all woods, ash is the best at withstanding and cushioning impact. In his book What Wood is That?, Herbert Edlin says: "...the same properties of strength and resistance to impact ensure the use of ash in exacting construction. It makes reliable ladder-rungs, and is chosen for the felloes of wooden wheels - that is, the curved pieces that make up the rim and take the shocks from the road. Cart shafts for horse-drawn vehicles of all kinds are also made of ash, for they too suffer strain and shock." Those ash boards are there to take the impact and shock of landing. Like most things Mr. Pietenpol did in his design, they are there for a reason. As for specifically finding "White Ash", there are three varieties of Ash that grow in North America, White Ash, Green Ash and Black Ash. Black Ash only grows in the northeastern US and Canada. Green Ash and White Ash grow throughout eastern North America. Most of the ash you find in lumber yards is White Ash. I can't find that there is much difference in strength and mechanical properties between the three species. I had to go to 3 different lumberyards before I found one that carried ash. It was not labeled as to which species it was. I think I paid about $20 for enough to make the two cross pieces as well as the wooden "V" blocks for the landing gear (I have the straight axle gear on mine). Good luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 11:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce instead of white ash --> <tinmotion@yahoo.com> I'm about to join the fuselage halves. The plans show those white ash boards. I can barely find plain ash let alone white ash. Anyone use spruce instead? Any reason why white ash is specified? Are there other options? Additionally, if you have any hints or advice on joining the halves, I'm all ears. Thank you -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455956#455956


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:23:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    I thought the gear legs were specified spruce on the plans. That's what I had when I bought 2rn, and were fine except being poorly fitted. For more strength I refit with southern yellow pine and they're way more than strong enough. Also, I replaced one of the cross members with red oak and it's fine as well. The part is laminated to 1/4 plywood. Properly fitted and maintained fittings, an oak substitution seems to be just fine. Ash is kinda brittle. One over tightened bolt in the original setup broke out a huge piece of my original crossmember. I remember there being some mention of ash being critical for the ford motor mounts though. In the sacred text. I wouldn't use spruce for the crossmembers, just not strong enough. I would think most hardwoods in the strength category of hard maple, oak, etc, should be fine. Proper fit and construction being important. Southern yellow pine is as strong as red oak. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455961#455961


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:30:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
    From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com>
    I sure appreciate the replies. I've had great difficulty finding it at the local lumber yards. One sells it 1" thick and close to eight feet long by 5" (I think). Anyway, in the meantime, I did find this (may have to buy it, and hope it's acceptable): http://www.rockler.com/white-ash-sold-by-the-piece-3-4-thickness?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CPHvhYG8yMwCFRNZhgodj28AbA -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455962#455962


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:50:51 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    I've been buying stuff from them for over twenty years, can't remember what their name was originally, and no problems. That wood will be sanded four sides likely, certainly planed 4 sides. Should work perfect. Should also be knot free. I'd call and order to make sure, rather than just an online order. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455963#455963


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:51:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    I've been buying stuff from them for over twenty years, can't remember what their name was originally, and no problems. That wood will be sanded four sides likely, certainly planed 4 sides. Should work perfect. Should also be knot free. I'd call and order to make sure, rather than just an online order. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455964#455964


    Message 13


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    Time: 11:11:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
    From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com>
    Thank you Tools. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455965#455965


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:51:31 PM PST US
    From: "Ralph" <ralphhsd@itctel.com>
    Subject: rudder cables and tape
    After many years of taking photos and video of Pietenpols under construction as well as flying examples I have a couple questions. What is the pathway of the rudder cables between the rudder horns and the rudder bar? I have the elevator cables under the seat and installed a couple small pulleys rather than just have the cable through wood. Where have people run the rudder cable? I can=99t find anything on the plans or in other readings. Also I read that where cables cross each other they should be taped together. What is used to tape them together? Thanks! Ralph Hurlbert Raymond, SD


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:55:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
    From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000@yahoo.com>
    been busy on the repair. New development. Cracks in fuse on both sides. Airplanes is repaired. Modifying the attach brackets. Will put back together and fly it. Here is the picture link https://picasaweb.google.com/107174509582784625093/6281908641079291233 Thanks Andy Abreu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455970#455970




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