Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:45 AM - Hard Starting Cont. Engines (AircamperN11MS)
2. 07:10 AM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Scott Knowlton)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (AircamperN11MS)
4. 09:00 AM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Ben Charvet)
5. 02:16 PM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Barry Davis)
6. 02:26 PM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (AircamperN11MS)
7. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Scott Knowlton)
8. 05:28 PM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Steven Dortch)
9. 07:08 PM - The Jeep powered Pietenpol taxi test (aviken)
10. 08:23 PM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (taildrags)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Oscar,
You mentioned that you have a hard time starting your engine when it is hot. Is
it a case of it flooding easily? I have a sure fire way of correcting this
if it is your case. Maike Madrid would spend 1 or 2 hours trying to start his
Aircamper and FlyBaby after fuel stops. I showed him my trick/method and he
is on his way now every time without worry.
Now on Dad's O-200, he had a bad Mag that we had to cool off the coil before it
would restart.
If yours is flooded, use this simple 10 step procedure.
1. Tie down the tail
2. Shut off fuel
3. Shut off Mags
4. Open throttle halfway or more. (Very important to do).
5. Pull the prop through 12 blades in the forward direction. (forward direction
is very important. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust valves. Some folks
where taught to pull the prop through backwards. This is not good for three
reasons. a. It pushes all the oil out of the oil pump. b. it pushes the raw
fuel back into the intake manifold thus still creates a rich fuel system. c. All
the fuel in the intake system becomes a fire hazard should it backfire through
the intake side when trying to restart).
6. Turn fuel back on.
7. Set throttle for normal starting and idle position. (Very important so your
plane doesn't try flying away without you).
8. Turn appropriate mags back on.
9. Prop normally. (it will start on the first or second blade every time.
10. Untie plane and fly away with a big smile on your face.
Now you can log more time in the air than on the ground.
Keep them flying friends.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459795#459795
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
A procedure that gave me good results on my champ with an A65 was to advance the
throttle off the idle stop when I shut down. The stromberg has an idle priming
circuit that primes when the blades are spinning down after shut down. Taking
the throttle off the idle circuit will prevent this priming action from happening.
When I did this procedure the airplane would start on the first blade
after a couple of blades with the mags off. This was even the case when the engine
was hot. I never had a flooded engine after adopting this procedure.
Scott Knowlton
> On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:49 AM, AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
>
>
> Oscar,
>
> You mentioned that you have a hard time starting your engine when it is hot.
Is it a case of it flooding easily? I have a sure fire way of correcting this
if it is your case. Maike Madrid would spend 1 or 2 hours trying to start his
Aircamper and FlyBaby after fuel stops. I showed him my trick/method and he
is on his way now every time without worry.
>
> Now on Dad's O-200, he had a bad Mag that we had to cool off the coil before
it would restart.
>
> If yours is flooded, use this simple 10 step procedure.
>
> 1. Tie down the tail
> 2. Shut off fuel
> 3. Shut off Mags
> 4. Open throttle halfway or more. (Very important to do).
> 5. Pull the prop through 12 blades in the forward direction. (forward direction
is very important. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust valves. Some folks
where taught to pull the prop through backwards. This is not good for three
reasons. a. It pushes all the oil out of the oil pump. b. it pushes the raw
fuel back into the intake manifold thus still creates a rich fuel system. c.
All the fuel in the intake system becomes a fire hazard should it backfire through
the intake side when trying to restart).
> 6. Turn fuel back on.
> 7. Set throttle for normal starting and idle position. (Very important so your
plane doesn't try flying away without you).
> 8. Turn appropriate mags back on.
> 9. Prop normally. (it will start on the first or second blade every time.
> 10. Untie plane and fly away with a big smile on your face.
>
> Now you can log more time in the air than on the ground.
>
> Keep them flying friends.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459795#459795
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Scott,
Excellent point. That should prevent the need for everything above.
Great input.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459800#459800
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
I do what Scott said, as I turn off the ignition, advance the throttle to full,
return to idle when it stops spinning
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 23, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> A procedure that gave me good results on my champ with an A65 was to advance
the throttle off the idle stop when I shut down. The stromberg has an idle priming
circuit that primes when the blades are spinning down after shut down. Taking
the throttle off the idle circuit will prevent this priming action from happening.
When I did this procedure the airplane would start on the first blade
after a couple of blades with the mags off. This was even the case when the
engine was hot. I never had a flooded engine after adopting this procedure.
>
> Scott Knowlton
>
>> On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:49 AM, AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Oscar,
>>
>> You mentioned that you have a hard time starting your engine when it is hot.
Is it a case of it flooding easily? I have a sure fire way of correcting this
if it is your case. Maike Madrid would spend 1 or 2 hours trying to start
his Aircamper and FlyBaby after fuel stops. I showed him my trick/method and
he is on his way now every time without worry.
>>
>> Now on Dad's O-200, he had a bad Mag that we had to cool off the coil before
it would restart.
>>
>> If yours is flooded, use this simple 10 step procedure.
>>
>> 1. Tie down the tail
>> 2. Shut off fuel
>> 3. Shut off Mags
>> 4. Open throttle halfway or more. (Very important to do).
>> 5. Pull the prop through 12 blades in the forward direction. (forward direction
is very important. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust valves. Some
folks where taught to pull the prop through backwards. This is not good for three
reasons. a. It pushes all the oil out of the oil pump. b. it pushes the raw
fuel back into the intake manifold thus still creates a rich fuel system. c.
All the fuel in the intake system becomes a fire hazard should it backfire through
the intake side when trying to restart).
>> 6. Turn fuel back on.
>> 7. Set throttle for normal starting and idle position. (Very important so your
plane doesn't try flying away without you).
>> 8. Turn appropriate mags back on.
>> 9. Prop normally. (it will start on the first or second blade every time.
>> 10. Untie plane and fly away with a big smile on your face.
>>
>> Now you can log more time in the air than on the ground.
>>
>> Keep them flying friends.
>>
>> --------
>> Scott Liefeld
>> Flying N11MS since March 1972
>> Steel Tube
>> C-85-12
>> Wire Wheels
>> Brodhead in 1996
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459795#459795
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
On my J3 Cub, it was became very difficult to crank while hot. I tried all
the stuff like 12 blades with fuel off, etc, etc, etc. The bottom line is
that the coils in my mags were breaking down. I cured the problem with a
Slick Mag Kit with new mags, wires and plugs. It now starts with one flip,
cold or hot, it doesn't matter. I fly my Grandkids a lot, so it was worth
the $$.
Barry
Big Piet NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hard Starting Cont. Engines
--> <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
Oscar,
You mentioned that you have a hard time starting your engine when it is hot.
Is it a case of it flooding easily? I have a sure fire way of correcting
this if it is your case. Maike Madrid would spend 1 or 2 hours trying to
start his Aircamper and FlyBaby after fuel stops. I showed him my
trick/method and he is on his way now every time without worry.
Now on Dad's O-200, he had a bad Mag that we had to cool off the coil before
it would restart.
If yours is flooded, use this simple 10 step procedure.
1. Tie down the tail
2. Shut off fuel
3. Shut off Mags
4. Open throttle halfway or more. (Very important to do).
5. Pull the prop through 12 blades in the forward direction. (forward
direction is very important. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust valves.
Some folks where taught to pull the prop through backwards. This is not
good for three reasons. a. It pushes all the oil out of the oil pump. b. it
pushes the raw fuel back into the intake manifold thus still creates a rich
fuel system. c. All the fuel in the intake system becomes a fire hazard
should it backfire through the intake side when trying to restart).
6. Turn fuel back on.
7. Set throttle for normal starting and idle position. (Very important so
your plane doesn't try flying away without you).
8. Turn appropriate mags back on.
9. Prop normally. (it will start on the first or second blade every time.
10. Untie plane and fly away with a big smile on your face.
Now you can log more time in the air than on the ground.
Keep them flying friends.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459795#459795
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Barry,
You just hit on why my dads was hard to start when hot. We fixed his long ago.
I just wanted to share and get folks thinking about what they are experiencing.
All good stuff. There should be no reason to have a hard starting engine
as long as everything is in proper working order. We just need to figure out
what we are dealing with to prevent the hard starts.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459809#459809
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Further to Scott Liefeld's point about making sure everything is working on the
little A65 I attended the Stromberg forum at Oshkosh this year. One other factor
that can lead to poor hot starting and flooding is a leaky primer. We only
want our primer to work when we want to prime. If it leaks past the plunge bulb
we are unwittingly supplying raw fuel downstream of the carb which will both
flood the engine and create potential fire hazard. There are lots of YouTube
videos showing how to test and rebuild a Lufkin or other primer. The easiest
test is to pull your primer line and see if it drops when the primer is in and
locked. Just another thought. All great points today!!!!
Scott K
> On Aug 23, 2016, at 5:29 PM, AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
>
>
> Barry,
>
> You just hit on why my dads was hard to start when hot. We fixed his long ago.
I just wanted to share and get folks thinking about what they are experiencing.
All good stuff. There should be no reason to have a hard starting engine
as long as everything is in proper working order. We just need to figure out
what we are dealing with to prevent the hard starts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459809#459809
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
My buddie's 1947 Aeronca Champ with 65HP continental starter was getting
worn out, and would end up panting and laying in the shade of the wing
before the engine would fire. So he bought brand new Slick mags and
harnesses (they come as a set.) We had a lot of airport bum help putting
them on and setting the timeing. They would not fire one lick. He
announced that he was tired and we were done for the day and closed up
shop. When all the advisors left, he reopened the doors and we pulled out
the instructions, took the mags off and started from scratch. Sure enough,
they fired first blade! It started so easy I jumped back.
On my Piet it has newly overhauled mags but they were just stuck on the
engine and not really installed. So I have that to look forward to.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Barry Davis <bed@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> On my J3 Cub, it was became very difficult to crank while hot. I tried all
> the stuff like 12 blades with fuel off, etc, etc, etc. The bottom line is
> that the coils in my mags were breaking down. I cured the problem with a
> Slick Mag Kit with new mags, wires and plugs. It now starts with one flip,
> cold or hot, it doesn't matter. I fly my Grandkids a lot, so it was worth
> the $$.
> Barry
> Big Piet NX973BP
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AircamperN11MS
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:44 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hard Starting Cont. Engines
>
> --> <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Oscar,
>
> You mentioned that you have a hard time starting your engine when it is
> hot.
> Is it a case of it flooding easily? I have a sure fire way of correcting
> this if it is your case. Maike Madrid would spend 1 or 2 hours trying to
> start his Aircamper and FlyBaby after fuel stops. I showed him my
> trick/method and he is on his way now every time without worry.
>
> Now on Dad's O-200, he had a bad Mag that we had to cool off the coil
> before
> it would restart.
>
> If yours is flooded, use this simple 10 step procedure.
>
> 1. Tie down the tail
> 2. Shut off fuel
> 3. Shut off Mags
> 4. Open throttle halfway or more. (Very important to do).
> 5. Pull the prop through 12 blades in the forward direction. (forward
> direction is very important. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust
> valves.
> Some folks where taught to pull the prop through backwards. This is not
> good for three reasons. a. It pushes all the oil out of the oil pump. b. it
> pushes the raw fuel back into the intake manifold thus still creates a rich
> fuel system. c. All the fuel in the intake system becomes a fire hazard
> should it backfire through the intake side when trying to restart).
> 6. Turn fuel back on.
> 7. Set throttle for normal starting and idle position. (Very important so
> your plane doesn't try flying away without you).
> 8. Turn appropriate mags back on.
> 9. Prop normally. (it will start on the first or second blade every time.
> 10. Untie plane and fly away with a big smile on your face.
>
> Now you can log more time in the air than on the ground.
>
> Keep them flying friends.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459795#459795
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 9
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| Subject: | The Jeep powered Pietenpol taxi test |
I couldn't resist taxiing my Jeep powered pietenpol today though it was more for
enjoyment than experimentation. I still have many small items to tidy up before
I call my /Dar to check it out. I hope to fly it very soon.
I wish I could add a photo but I simply can't, I am not smart enough to navigate
the email list. Someone suggested I use my email to add photos, What
the hell is that ? All I managed to do was get my email blown open with every
list here. I cant find away to un-do that, so if anyone knows to remove me
please be my guest.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459820#459820
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
OK, so first let's take care of the easy items. (1) I do not have a primer on
my engine, don't need one, and if ya ain't got one, it can't leak. (2) the engine
got brand-new Slick mags and harnesses when it was built back up, and of
course new plugs, and everything is perfectly timed and gapped. It's not spark.
Now to possible "other stuff" besides operator error.
As far as advancing the throttle as the engine is spinning to a stop on dead mags,
I've tried that and found it made matters worse because the engine just sucks
more raw fuel into the chambers that way and it's all sitting there when I
try the next start. I'll try it that way again next time I shut down at the
hangar after a flight, but it's never worked for me in the past.
As far as there not being a prime circuit open unless the throttle is partially
cracked, I recognize most of the intricacies of the Stromberg carb and I am aware
that there are two small ports in the carb throat, one on each side of the
throttle plate when it is closed (throttle full aft to idle). This is by design,
and the outer one pulls fuel till the throttle plate begins to open and
there is enough impulse through the throat to pull fuel through the other, and
those two provide fuel until there is enough impulse through the venturi for
the engine to pull fuel through the main jet. All of this is designed to provide
the proper air-fuel mixture from idle to WOT, or so I'm given to understand
from all the literature. Some Strombergs will cause an engine stumble or hesitation
at some point between coming off of idle and getting to WOT on takeoff,
but that's a whole 'nother issue apart from starting.
I think my problem is simply technique, and the technique that most interests me
is Scott's 10-step narrative. The only new twist is the 12 blades in the forward
direction. Like most other hand-proppers, I've always been told to pull
the prop through *backwards* with the fuel shut off and throttle wide open, and
that helps but there is still plenty of raw fuel in my air box so what I've
been doing is leaving the fuel shut off after pulling it through a dozen blades,
then just sitting under the wing for 5-7 minutes to let excess fuel evaporate,
then making the mags hot with the throttle back to idle and propping it.
That worked for me last time and I still had time after the engine caught to
nudge the throttle and turn the fuel back on as the engine came to life. I will
try Scott's 10-Step "Prop Starters Anonymous" drying-out procedure ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459824#459824
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