Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Jack Philips)
2. 05:53 AM - posting pictures ()
3. 06:18 AM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (AircamperN11MS)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: posting pictures (AircamperN11MS)
5. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (shad bell)
6. 08:14 AM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (taildrags)
7. 11:01 AM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Speedbrake)
8. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Jack Philips)
9. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (shad bell)
10. 01:54 PM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (AircamperN11MS)
11. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Louie Bakrevski)
12. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (Ray Krause)
13. 08:53 PM - Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines (taildrags)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Oscar, my A65 has Slick Mags, both with Impulse couplings. I start mine
with the ignition switch set to BOTH.
I have no problem with hot starts, as long as I give a really healthy swing
to the prop (I can usually swing it hard enough to get it through two
cylinders). If it doesn't start on the first pull when hot, I'm usually in
for following the sequence Scott laid out.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 12:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Scott: oh, no! You're sending me back to my books to read up on Continental
ignition systems! Upper plugs, lower plugs, gapping, timing... I know my
mags and plugs are set up just the way they're supposed to be but I did all
of that work more than a couple of nights ago so I've forgotten it all ;o)
Honestly, I *always* prop start it with the mags on Both, and I believe both
of my Slicks have impulse couplings. However, this is a good time to learn
something (and to teach something) about magneto ignitions, so I'm going to
study up and report back. Meanwhile, we've got a couple of wildland fires
burning around us so I get to watch a lot of round engines fly overhead as
the tankers make their circuits to and from the fires. But I doubt that I
could prop-start a P&W Double Wasp on a Convair 340, with or without impulse
couplings ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459859#459859
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| Subject: | posting pictures |
Hello,
I get the following message when trying to add a picture to a post.
Sorry, but the maximum filesize for all Attachments is reached. Please cont
act the Board Administrator if you have questions.
The picture=C2- is only 16K.=C2- The extension is .jpg=C2- Any sugges
tions?
Thank you,Larry Marquez
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Very good,
I have seen dual impulse couplings on the A series like you guys have. Which is
plenty fine on Experimental aircraft. On certified, It may not be legal.
Depends on what the type certificate says. With the dual impulses it helps a lot
during starting.
Anyway,
The fires have been awful all over the western states. We have had our share around
here. They are doing taxiway work at our airport and the runway has been
shortened from 7201' to 3500' keeping our firefighting aircraft off the field.
Note: for me, it means that the runway is still 150' long and only 3500' wide
now. Makes it tough in big crosswinds. :)
Good luck Oscar. I think the starting procedures will cure you headache.
Enough for now,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459879#459879
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| Subject: | Re: posting pictures |
I'll try adding a pic. It won't add for me either. Strange.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459880#459880
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:whi
te !important; } Jack, do you have any clearance issues running a impulse
on the right mag? =C2-Was reading up on it and saw some cautions about th
e shaft hitting the forward side of the acc. Case.=C2-Shad
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, 9:17 AM, AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity
.org> wrote:
y.org>
Very good,
I have seen dual impulse couplings on the A series like you guys have.=C2
- Which is plenty fine on Experimental aircraft.=C2- On certified,=C2
- It may not be legal.=C2- Depends on what the type certificate says. W
ith the dual impulses it helps a lot during starting.=C2-
Anyway,=C2-
The fires have been awful all over the western states. We have had our shar
e around here.=C2- They are doing taxiway work at our airport and the run
way has been shortened from 7201' to 3500' keeping our firefighting aircraf
t off the field.=C2- Note: for me, it means that the runway is still 150'
long and only 3500' wide now. Makes it tough in big crosswinds. :)
Good luck Oscar.=C2- I think the starting procedures will cure you headac
he.=C2-
Enough for now,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459879#459879
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
OK, so this is from the A&P who overhauled my A75:
"Continentals, if equipped with Impulse Couplers, almost always have them on both
mags. If you buy Slick magneto kit for an A series engine, the kit will come
with two impulse coupled mags. If one wanted to install their mags piecemeal,
you could mount mags with no impulse, the impulse on either the left or right
mags, or on both.
Lycoming engines come with the impulse on the left mag only. The impulse in the
mags for a Lycoming engine takes up a bit of space, so Lycoming adds a spacer
onto the left magneto mount to accommodate the installation of an impulse coupling.
A spacer could also be added to the right side if one so desired, but
would also require longer studs for mounting the second impulse coupled magneto.
I've never seen anyone add a second impulse coupled mag onto a Lycoming, but on
both A and C series Continentals, dual impulse coupled magnetos is the way they
are typically configured. "
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459890#459890
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
A little more to chew on...
In the Maint. and Overhaul Man. for A-65 and-75, page 47:
Item 35-2 Magneto, Eiseman R.H AM-4 (without impulse)
35-4 Magneto, Eiseman L.H. AM-4 (with impulse)
This could be nothing more than calling out how the mags are depicted and not indicative
to how they should be configured.
--------
Mike Perez
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459900#459900
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
None that I=99ve noticed.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad
bell
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines
Jack, do you have any clearance issues running a impulse on the right
mag? Was reading up on it and saw some cautions about the shaft hitting
the forward side of the acc. Case.
Shad
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://yho.com/footer0>
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, 9:17 AM, AircamperN11MS
<Scott.liefeld@lacity.org <mailto:Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > wrote:
<Scott.liefeld@lacity.org <javascript:return> >
Very good,
I have seen dual impulse couplings on the A series like you guys have.
Which is plenty fine on Experimental aircraft. On certified, It may
not be legal. Depends on what the type certificate says. With the dual
impulses it helps a lot during starting.
Anyway,
The fires have been awful all over the western states. We have had our
share around here. They are doing taxiway work at our airport and the
runway has been shortened from 7201' to 3500' keeping our firefighting
aircraft off the field. Note: for me, it means that the runway is still
150' long and only 3500' wide now. Makes it tough in big crosswinds. :)
Good luck Oscar. I think the starting procedures will cure you
headache.
Enough for now,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459879#459879
nbsp; -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronihtt
p://wiki.matroni <http://wiki.matronics.com>
-Mats.com/contribution"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution======
=======
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:whi
te !important; } I saw a page from Harry Fenton on this. I looked at my en
gine and sure enough there is a "rib" in the casting on the forward side of
the accessory case that protrudes much further on the right mag than the l
eft. The nut on the end of the mag shaft that holds the gear on will touch
with my eismans impulse mag. Slick mags may have more clearance thus allowi
ng using an impulse on the right side. I believe this is only an issue on t
he A series engines.=C2-
Shad
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, August 25, 2016, 2:00 PM, Speedbrake <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net
> wrote:
t>
A little more to chew on...
In the Maint. and Overhaul Man. for A-65 and-75, page 47:
Item 35-2 Magneto, Eiseman R.H AM-4 (without impulse)
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- 35-4 Magneto, Eiseman L.H. AM-4 (with impulse)
This could be nothing more than calling out how the mags are depicted and n
ot indicative to how they should be configured.
--------
Mike Perez
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459900#459900
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
So,
There are many different configurations of magnetos. If someone without a proper
magneto O/H guide puts together parts from several different cores to build
up one that works, you could have issues. I overhauled my mags last year. My
mags had the proper dataplates on them for the engine. But after disassembly,
I discovered that I had many of the wrong parts inside them. I did manage
to rebuild them in the proper configuration to match the dataplate and configuration
for my engine. One of the biggest issues was that I had the incorrect
rotors in each of the mags. They come in different lengths and mine were not
correct. Just this one item may cause a fit interference issue whether the gear
goes in too far or not enough.
So what I'm getting at is, follow the O/H manuals for the engine and accessories
for you engine. The little Stromburg carburetors have a bunch of different
configurations as well for each engine size.
My engine ran great for a very long time with the mags put together incorrectly.
It wasn't until I decided to overhaul them that I even knew they were not right.
After the overhaul I gained 300 RPM on climb out. Now I am under propped
but that is another story.
In conclusion, If you are having any issues at all with engine performance, whether
starting, idling, full power, stumbling, It's worth getting the book out
and investigating your component part numbers and proper configuration. It just
amazes me how much I learn every time I work on anything airplane related or
otherwise.
I love learning from other peoples experiences. I guess that's why I enjoy this
forum so much.
Just a note here. I am not an A&P nor do I pretend to be. I Have been a mechanic
for most of my life and design fire apparatus for a living for the second
largest Fire Department in the country. I have also been an EAA tech counselor
for more than twenty years. I helped my dad build my Piet and my daughter helped
me rebuild it back in the year 2000.
What we do here is enjoy the opportunities this great country affords us. We just
happen to like building and flying our own airplanes. Lets do it as safe
as we can.
Stuff to think about.
:D
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459907#459907
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Oscar
Let's clarified that -8 cases only came with Bendix lunch box mags, eisman mags,
case mags (they belong on orange ) tractors , s-200 or s-20 mags. All of this
mags ONLY have impulse coupling on left side. Right side non impulse mag. Slick
mags have a impulse on BOTH mags.
All of -8 mags and -9 mags are right turning mags. Lunch box mags do NOT have a
impulse coupling on both mags, so you are starting at around 30 degrees of BTC.
You have to swing the prop with authority wood props could swing back. Eisman
Bendix S-20 or 200 only have in pulse on left mag . Should started on left
mag only. Dash 12 cases C-75 ,C-85 C-90 could usually will have impulse coupling
on both sides. If you have impulse coupling on both sides should be started
on both mags. Now if you have push to start Bendix switch you have to make shure
it's set up wright . There is jumper , needs to be in right position. If
you need more information you have to entice me wit few MGD. ( mighty good diner).
Louie.
Ps a have a ton of small continental pars and mags.
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:20 AM, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> OK, so this is from the A&P who overhauled my A75:
>
> "Continentals, if equipped with Impulse Couplers, almost always have them on
both mags. If you buy Slick magneto kit for an A series engine, the kit will
come with two impulse coupled mags. If one wanted to install their mags piecemeal,
you could mount mags with no impulse, the impulse on either the left or
right mags, or on both.
>
> Lycoming engines come with the impulse on the left mag only. The impulse in
the mags for a Lycoming engine takes up a bit of space, so Lycoming adds a spacer
onto the left magneto mount to accommodate the installation of an impulse
coupling. A spacer could also be added to the right side if one so desired, but
would also require longer studs for mounting the second impulse coupled magneto.
>
> I've never seen anyone add a second impulse coupled mag onto a Lycoming, but
on both A and C series Continentals, dual impulse coupled magnetos is the way
they are typically configured. "
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459890#459890
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Louie,
So how do you check the spark on Eismann A-4 mags to make sure they are running
properly? Does anyone overhaul them?
Thanks,
Ray Krause
A-65-8, Eismann mags, impulse on the left.
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 25, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Louie Bakrevski <lupchob@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Oscar
> Let's clarified that -8 cases only came with Bendix lunch box mags, eisman mags,
case mags (they belong on orange ) tractors , s-200 or s-20 mags. All of this
mags ONLY have impulse coupling on left side. Right side non impulse mag.
Slick mags have a impulse on BOTH mags.
> All of -8 mags and -9 mags are right turning mags. Lunch box mags do NOT have
a impulse coupling on both mags, so you are starting at around 30 degrees of
BTC. You have to swing the prop with authority wood props could swing back. Eisman
Bendix S-20 or 200 only have in pulse on left mag . Should started on left
mag only. Dash 12 cases C-75 ,C-85 C-90 could usually will have impulse coupling
on both sides. If you have impulse coupling on both sides should be started
on both mags. Now if you have push to start Bendix switch you have to make
shure it's set up wright . There is jumper , needs to be in right position. If
you need more information you have to entice me wit few MGD. ( mighty good diner).
Louie.
> Ps a have a ton of small continental pars and mags.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:20 AM, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> OK, so this is from the A&P who overhauled my A75:
>>
>> "Continentals, if equipped with Impulse Couplers, almost always have them on
both mags. If you buy Slick magneto kit for an A series engine, the kit will
come with two impulse coupled mags. If one wanted to install their mags piecemeal,
you could mount mags with no impulse, the impulse on either the left or
right mags, or on both.
>>
>> Lycoming engines come with the impulse on the left mag only. The impulse in
the mags for a Lycoming engine takes up a bit of space, so Lycoming adds a spacer
onto the left magneto mount to accommodate the installation of an impulse
coupling. A spacer could also be added to the right side if one so desired,
but would also require longer studs for mounting the second impulse coupled magneto.
>>
>> I've never seen anyone add a second impulse coupled mag onto a Lycoming, but
on both A and C series Continentals, dual impulse coupled magnetos is the way
they are typically configured. "
>>
>> --------
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Medford, OR
>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459890#459890
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Cont. Engines |
Louie: now you're singing my song! The engine that was originally on my airplane
was a taper-shaft A65-8 and it had a Bendix-Scintilla lunch box on the starboard
side and a Bendix S-series mag with impulse on the port side. This all
makes sense with what you suggest about starting that engine setup on the left
(impulse) side only, since hand-propping doesn't really spin the engine fast
enough where the 30* BTC spark on the non-impulse lunchbox mag would get there
in time to ignite the fully-compressed air-fuel mixture at TDC. It can, in fact,
ignite the mixture early if the prop isn't spun briskly... resulting in kick-back,
exactly as you mention.
Did I mention that as a mechanical and electrical engineer, I *love* electromechanical
machines??!! This is all good stuff...;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459913#459913
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