Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 AM - Re: Piet power question (bubbleboy)
2. 05:16 AM - piet power question (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 05:27 AM - piet power question (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 06:15 AM - Re: piet power question (Boatright, Jeffrey)
5. 10:06 AM - Re: Piet power question (Steven Dortch)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: Piet power question (Jack Textor)
7. 10:53 AM - Re: Piet power question (Glen Schweizer)
8. 01:02 PM - Re: Piet power question (robert wiebe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Piet power question |
Stay clear of the Jabiru. That is all....
Scotty
--------
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Fuslage now on its undercarriage! About to start wing spars...Corvair engine at
Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461879#461879
Message 2
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| Subject: | piet power question |
Hi Rich,
I don't personally know if a Jab has actually flown in a piet. It probably
has, the airplane has been flown by almost every engine imaginable during
it's almost 90 year history.
If you search this list's archives you will probably come across some old
posts with actual performance numbers.
The most common engines for Pietenpols are Continentals, Corvairs and Ford
model A. it was originally designed for the ford, and if built lightly they
fly quite nicely and there are several around with people still building.
The airplane performs quite nicely with Continentals, corvairs and does
perform very well with the Rotec.
I have heard various things about the Rotec's service history, but just in
terms of flying the airplane, it works very well.
The basic tenants you'll always hear from "knowledgeable" piet people is:
build according to the plans (don't add lots of stuff), build light, keep it
simple. And I would add be sure whatever engine you use, build or have it
built well and you will have a lovely airplane.
Douwe
Message 3
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| Subject: | piet power question |
Hey Rich,
For various reasons, most of the people that used to frequent this site
(there used to be 15-25 posts daily) seem to have moved to the Pietenpol
facebook page. Corvair fans have also created their own separate site to
share information.
I'd suggest you join the piet FB group in addition to this one. There's lots
of knowledgeable people there.
Douwe
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: piet power question |
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Piet power question |
Were I to start from scratch I would go with a Corvair conversion. Good HP,
Good Weight, Lots of reliable conversions, Well established.
The Ford Model A does not make a lot of horsepower and does so a low RPM
and is heavy. However, the Low RPM, good torque of this engine on a draggy
Pietenpol seems to be a happy combination. For what it is, it performs
surprisingly well.
The Continental A65(75) is a good match, as is the 90. I hear that the 85
is not as good as the others. The O200 makes it climb pretty hot but is a
little heavy. These are all pretty reliable and you know what you have.
VW engines have not been happy in Pietenpols. That combination just does
not jive.
My current obsession is the Jeep powered Piet that they are working out the
details on. I love jeeps and I Love Piets, so what is not to love?
Please note, these are my Opinions and are worth what you paid for them. I
have no experience with anything but a A65.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 6:07 AM, Comcast <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote:
> I am curious about engine options and power to plane relationship.
>
> The A-65 is an option I have read about. I think the A-85 is another, as
> well as the corvair option.
>
> What is a quick glance into actual performance with these engines.
>
> The Jabiru 2200, has anyone used this on a piet?
>
> I think I saw the r2800 was installed on one but the r2800 was
> troublesome. What is the real performance history with these engines?
>
>
> I am toying with building a Piet now that I'm flying my zenith 601.
> Looking for some sound engine information. Anything will help.
>
> Please chime in.
>
> If you wish to contact me off list use coach_rich@yahoo.com.
>
> - Rich
>
> - Rich
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Piet power question |
Have seen numerous posts today like this with no content...
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 2, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wro
te:
>
>
>
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Piet power question |
All I'm getting from the list today is
3D= the whole page what's up
> On Nov 2, 2016, at 10:32 AM, Jack Textor <jack@textors.com> wrote:
>
> <html><body><pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Piet power question |
When I started my Aircamper project (using Bernards's airfoil) a couple, fo
ur years ago, I was convinced that the Corvair was the ultimate solution. T
hen, after doing all the extra thinking, etc. I decided a Ford Model A was
the coolest of all solutions. In the meantime I kept scrounging, fabricatin
g and building. I now have a nice (worth rebuilding) Model A engine, boxes
of "spares," and a couple or four mags to choose from "in the shed."
Meanwhile I have passed over several usable Continentals and purchased a re
ally sweet (COMPLETE! with logs) A65 for nearly less than the parts price t
o rebuild the A-engine. I am still VERY tempted to build a second A-powered
Piet or at least make a quick conversion kit. But I would never fly cross
country behind the Ford. Bernie could do that in the '30s because he could
land in a field and find the parts to fix the engine wherever that field ma
y have been... and maybe there were more fields. (Just two weeks ago I lear
ned of a rebuilt and crated industrial Ford Model A engine that I may be ab
le to buy for decent dollars.)
My experience in building boats and airplanes has taught me: (This is free
advice* so take that into consideration.)
1. I think this is VERY important: Choose the design you really want. Do NO
T start with an engine philosophy and work backwards from there. The Piet A
C, in particular, needs high torque at low revs (large diam prop) - and you
'll WANT that low RPM. (Eg. the VW works in faster, low drag, SMALL airplan
es. I built and flew a VP1 as my 1st project for "budget" reasons and was n
ot happy because I chose the motor first. I later tried to make an inline-s
ix gas motor do the job of a small diesel in a boat. Both projects costed m
e 'wasted' money, a good bit of time and did not give me what I wanted/need
ed. I gave the VP1 away and re-engined the boat.)
2. Building uses more calendar than you think. In the meantime, engines lan
d in your lap. After you buy your first motor, it seems people start leavin
g them on your porch. (So you'll want one of those as these offerings are a
tad heavy for said lap.) This sounds like some kind of heresy - you should
think the engine will be the biggest budget item. On at least 4 boats and
2 aircraft, my engine costs were negligible. I have purchased 2 new marine
engines and 1 new aircraft engine in 25 years and two of those - 1 of each
- were new old stock (NOS) that were heavily discounted. I have happily own
ed/operated nearly ten times that number of each.
3. There are people out there who are real gear heads. Those are the airpla
nes, boats and cars (ABCs) owners who seem to own and operate ABCs as an ex
cuse to engineer. (pun intended) All the drag boat/car owners I know fill t
his realm and I love hanging around this crowd. Then there are the people f
or whom the motor is just there to turn the prop. I think most of us are so
mewhere in between. Unless your gear-head buddy is going to do most or all
of the FWF, I would stick to "tried and true." I think low volume, small-ma
nufacturer engine builders are great for this first group and a guaranteed
disappointment to the rest of us. That being said, I really want to see a J
eep-powered Piet in person. In fact, I want one.
4. As inferred, the biggest cost is your time. Even if you cost out your ti
me at 2 bucks an hour, this is still your biggest expense - by far. For me
it was always the love of the building and so a good number of my projects
went to other people at about that $2.00 an hour, or less - but I think nev
er more. This was, of course, my choice but since my teens (1 airplane and
1 boat) I have only built projects for myself that met personal criteria. D
oing otherwise was just a waste of my free time.
5. If I was in a "hurry" I would not hesitate to order a Corvair engine fro
m William Wynne at FlyCorvair. You'd still have an authentic Bernie Pietenp
ol Aircamper! It's probably about the most reliable, non-aero engine you ca
n bolt on the front of your plane. After reading his manuals, I think he mi
ght as well build my engine. However, I would really, really like to do one
of his engine colleges. I have never met him in person but through his mat
erials and meeting people who know/have met him, he seems dedicated to seei
ng that you don't die. I have a long dormant CH-601 project that is nagging
me and crying out for one of his engines.
6. If you just want to fly, call your Piper rep, or better, just rent. If y
ou're a little cracked like the rest of us, have fun. We are.
- Robert
*Usually worth what you pay for it.
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet power question
Were I to start from scratch I would go with a Corvair conversion. Good HP,
Good Weight, Lots of reliable conversions, Well established.
The Ford Model A does not make a lot of horsepower and does so a low RPM an
d is heavy. However, the Low RPM, good torque of this engine on a draggy Pi
etenpol seems to be a happy combination. For what it is, it performs surpri
singly well.
The Continental A65(75) is a good match, as is the 90. I hear that the 85 i
s not as good as the others. The O200 makes it climb pretty hot but is a li
ttle heavy. These are all pretty reliable and you know what you have.
VW engines have not been happy in Pietenpols. That combination just does no
t jive.
My current obsession is the Jeep powered Piet that they are working out the
details on. I love jeeps and I Love Piets, so what is not to love?
Please note, these are my Opinions and are worth what you paid for them. I
have no experience with anything but a A65.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 6:07 AM, Comcast <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote:
I am curious about engine options and power to plane relationship.=C2-
The A-65 is an option I have read about. I think the A-85 is another, as we
ll as the corvair option.=C2-
What is a quick glance into actual performance with these engines.=C2-
The Jabiru 2200, has anyone used this on a piet?
I think I saw the r2800 was installed on one but the r2800 was troublesome.
What is the real performance history with these engines?
I am toying with building a Piet now that I'm flying my zenith 601. Looking
for some sound engine information. Anything will help.=C2-
Please chime in.=C2-
If you wish to contact me off list use=C2-coach_rich@yahoo.com.=C2-
- Rich
- Rich
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
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