---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/15/17: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:13 AM - Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 03:13 AM - Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 05:33 AM - Re: a whole page of Piet sketches---web link below (M W Stanley) 4. 11:49 AM - Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch (Richard Schreiber) 5. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch (Richard Schreiber) 6. 12:11 PM - Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch (Rick Schreiber) 7. 01:23 PM - Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch (helspersew@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:05 AM PST US From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch Hi Rick, Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had to do over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" in., but that doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long trips. My longest leg was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to Loensloe last summer. That was t he end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours in a Pietenpol before the sun set. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Richard Schreiber Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2017 8:03 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank ske tch It really is working out well Mike. As I said, I plagiarized what you had already done. Putting the rear extension into the shelf area as yo u did is a better way to go as it gives more support to the tank. That area behind the front IP is wasted space anyways. I was just trying t o simplify the tank construction. Until I actually did the fuel flow t esting, I was afraid I would have to use ram air to pressurize the tan k, but fortunately it wasn't necessary. I have taken off now with a fu ll 18 gal tank and all works well, however that gives me 3 hrs flight time with a 1/2 hour reserve. So far my longest flight has been 2-1/2 hours. As much as I like flying the Piet, I was ready to land and take a break at 2-1/2 hours. When I used to hear people say 2 hours was long enough in a Pietenpol I was wondering what is the problem? I f ly over 3 hour legs in my TriPacer all the time with no problem. With a Pietenpol is it lack of padding in an uncomfortable seat? The noise? The wind buffet? For me its just like driving a motorcycle for a long distance. Its the fact that you can never relax like you can in a car , or a more modern enclosed cockpit aircraft. You have to fly it all t he time. Not that I am complaining, its just a different kind of flyin g. In all respects it is more enjoyable than flying the TriPacer, but 17 or 18 gallons of fuel is certainly enough. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN On 1/14/2017 6:53 PM, Michael Cuy wrote: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Image/PietNoseTankSketch.jpg.j pg Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gal lon nose tank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a center section tank (my center section is all baggage) Mike C. On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rick Schreiber" Vincent, Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using gravity feed to the carb, no fuel pump was required. When I ran the fuel flow test, with the plane at about a 16 degr ee angle of attack, there was plenty of head pressure. I don =99t recall the actual figures, but it was way better th an the 150% of max power fuel consumption required by the FAR. The useable fuel was also almost the full 18 gallons except f or a few ounces. The last fuel flow test was actually done wit h 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow was fine. I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of the tank. My tank design followed pretty much what Mike Cuy did, except I did not add in the rear extension. If I h ad to do it again I would put in the rear extension that Mike has as it gives more support to the tank rear. It makes it a l ittle more difficult to construct the tank, but I think it =99s worth it. If you are following my tank dimensions, I w ould make it slightly narrower. My tank is a little tight when trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and carb heat cable s. The tank support is two stainless steel straps running fore and aft. These straps attach to the forward ash piece at the firewall and the shelf behind the front cockpit ins trument panel. This shelf is reinforced with =C2=BE=9Dx 4=9D Douglas fir. There is a secondary support that goes left and right under the tank, also made of Douglas fir. Fina lly there is a top strap that goes across the top bow of the t ank. The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I did. Also check Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet website, as that's where I shamelessly plagiarized my ideas .. Regards, Rick Schreiber NX478RS Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465070#465070 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietnosetanksketchmike_cuy _372.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/line_drawing_nx478rs_989.j pg http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg ==================== =============== br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ==================== =============== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ==================== =============== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com ==================== =============== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www. matronics.com/contribution ==================== =============== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:14 AM PST US From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch Hi Rick, Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had to do over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" in., but that doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long trips. My longest leg was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to Loensloe last summer. That was t he end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours in a Pietenpol before the sun set. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Richard Schreiber Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2017 8:03 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank ske tch It really is working out well Mike. As I said, I plagiarized what you had already done. Putting the rear extension into the shelf area as yo u did is a better way to go as it gives more support to the tank. That area behind the front IP is wasted space anyways. I was just trying t o simplify the tank construction. Until I actually did the fuel flow t esting, I was afraid I would have to use ram air to pressurize the tan k, but fortunately it wasn't necessary. I have taken off now with a fu ll 18 gal tank and all works well, however that gives me 3 hrs flight time with a 1/2 hour reserve. So far my longest flight has been 2-1/2 hours. As much as I like flying the Piet, I was ready to land and take a break at 2-1/2 hours. When I used to hear people say 2 hours was long enough in a Pietenpol I was wondering what is the problem? I f ly over 3 hour legs in my TriPacer all the time with no problem. With a Pietenpol is it lack of padding in an uncomfortable seat? The noise? The wind buffet? For me its just like driving a motorcycle for a long distance. Its the fact that you can never relax like you can in a car , or a more modern enclosed cockpit aircraft. You have to fly it all t he time. Not that I am complaining, its just a different kind of flyin g. In all respects it is more enjoyable than flying the TriPacer, but 17 or 18 gallons of fuel is certainly enough. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN On 1/14/2017 6:53 PM, Michael Cuy wrote: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Image/PietNoseTankSketch.jpg.j pg Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gal lon nose tank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a center section tank (my center section is all baggage) Mike C. On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rick Schreiber" Vincent, Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using gravity feed to the carb, no fuel pump was required. When I ran the fuel flow test, with the plane at about a 16 degr ee angle of attack, there was plenty of head pressure. I don =99t recall the actual figures, but it was way better th an the 150% of max power fuel consumption required by the FAR. The useable fuel was also almost the full 18 gallons except f or a few ounces. The last fuel flow test was actually done wit h 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow was fine. I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of the tank. My tank design followed pretty much what Mike Cuy did, except I did not add in the rear extension. If I h ad to do it again I would put in the rear extension that Mike has as it gives more support to the tank rear. It makes it a l ittle more difficult to construct the tank, but I think it =99s worth it. If you are following my tank dimensions, I w ould make it slightly narrower. My tank is a little tight when trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and carb heat cable s. The tank support is two stainless steel straps running fore and aft. These straps attach to the forward ash piece at the firewall and the shelf behind the front cockpit ins trument panel. This shelf is reinforced with =C2=BE=9Dx 4=9D Douglas fir. There is a secondary support that goes left and right under the tank, also made of Douglas fir. Fina lly there is a top strap that goes across the top bow of the t ank. The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I did. Also check Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet website, as that's where I shamelessly plagiarized my ideas .. Regards, Rick Schreiber NX478RS Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465070#465070 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietnosetanksketchmike_cuy _372.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/line_drawing_nx478rs_989.j pg http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg ==================== =============== br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ==================== =============== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ==================== =============== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com ==================== =============== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www. matronics.com/contribution ==================== =============== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:29 AM PST US From: "M W Stanley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a whole page of Piet sketches---web link below Hi Mike, Thanks for the link to your sketches, looks like some good stuff there! Cheers Mark Stanley From: Michael Cuy Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 10:00 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: a whole page of Piet sketches---web link below For those of you who are newer to the list, here's a page of a few of the miscellaneous sketches that I've drawn to help others along while building their Pietenpol. Scroll down after you get to the page. The fuel tank sketch/installation is in there along with a bunch of other sketches---of possible interest. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Sketches.html Mike C. NX48MC ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch From: Richard Schreiber Hi Dan, Yes I did lean my seat back. I think it was 10 deg, whatever "Uncle" Tony recommended. I have no problem with seat comfort. I am using temporary temperfoam pads until I decided what thickness and density I want. Dan you are truly an Iron Man. I can't imagine flying for 15 hours. I have done 10 hours at a stretch in the TriPacer coming back from out west, but I had my Wife along with me to fly a little if I needed a break. On my Piet I still need to add a little left rudder to keep flying co-ordinated. I did not offset my rudder to counter act P-factor. I may wind up doing that eventually. I do not want to add any trim tabs. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN On 1/15/2017 5:12 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Hi Rick, > > Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had > to do over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" > in., but that doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long > trips. My longest leg was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to > Loensloe last summer. That was the end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours > in a Pietenpol before the sun set. > > Dan Helsper > Loensloe Airfield > Puryear, TN > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch From: Richard Schreiber Oscar, You are very right! Planning the routing of the throttle, carb heat, fuel shut off cables before hand is important if you are making a front bay nose tank. When I designed mine I thought I was allowing enough clearance for the tank, but forgot to allow for the flanges on all the tank seams. That made for a little tighter fit that I had planned on. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN On 1/14/2017 9:49 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Also forgot to mention... plan your cable routing before you figure out your fuel tank. Like others have mentioned, it can get VERY tight getting cables from the rear cockpit to the engine compartment past the fuel tank, especially since you can't take a straight line going through the firewall... you have to dodge around the fuselage upright just before punching out of the firewall going forward. The small wires are no problem, it's things like the tach cable (mechanical tach, anyway). > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465089#465089 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch From: "Rick Schreiber" I forgot to post a picture of me trying on the rear cockpit seat for fit. With the side off you can clealy see the leanback. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465111#465111 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0601a_155.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:26 PM PST US From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch I just went back and checked my logs. It was only 12 hours of flying....but 15 hours overall that day to get home from OSH. Long but truly satisfying. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Richard Schreiber Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 1:49 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch Hi Dan, Yes I did lean my seat back. I think it was 10 deg, whatever "Uncle" Tony recommended. I have no problem with seat comfort. I am using temporary temperfoam pads until I decided what thickness and density I want. Dan you are truly an Iron Man. I can't imagine flying for 15 hours. I have done 10 hours at a stretch in the TriPacer coming back from out west, but I had my Wife along with me to fly a little if I needed a break. On my Piet I still need to add a little left rudder to keep flying co-ordinated. I did not offset my rudder to counter act P-factor. I may wind up doing that eventually. I do not want to add any trim tabs. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN On 1/15/2017 5:12 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: Hi Rick, Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had to do over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" in., but that doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long trips. My longest leg was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to Loensloe last summer. That was the end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours in a Pietenpol before the sun set. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.