---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/13/17: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:31 AM - Semih's Florida visit (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 06:50 AM - Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery (Glen Schweizer) 3. 08:02 AM - Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery ((null) raykrause) 4. 08:05 AM - Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery (John Weber) 5. 08:14 AM - Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery (Steven Dortch) 6. 01:53 PM - Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery (taildrags) 7. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery (Scott Knowlton) 8. 08:55 PM - Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery ((null) raykrause) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:46 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Semih's Florida visit HI Semih, I'm not sure if you are already a member, but I suggest you join the Pietenpol facebook page and let them know of your upcoming visit as well. I love this forum, but find there are many more followers of the facebook page. Might help find more Piets in the Orlando area. Good luck! Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:23 AM PST US From: Glen Schweizer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT opinion from the peanut gallery Hi all After being out of the sky for almost 20 years,last August I had an opportunity to pick up at 172 so I did. I got tired of hitching rides. Originally the idea was to get current and have something to fly while I'm building my peitenpol, then sell the 172. WHY would I do that? She's bought and paid for, doesn't owe me a dime, a nice XC airplane, reasonably cheap to opperate(7.5 gph )I could go on n on. Most importantly she's a very easy to fly, forgiving airplane(although I don't have to ask her forgiveness any more). So when the peit is done I'll have two airplane/girlfriends: one for play and one for play > On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS say the Cessna 172 or 152. > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:51 AM PST US From: "(null) raykrause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT opinion from the peanut gallery You will become a much better pilot by learning to fly in the Champ. But finding an instructor ( a good one) will be more difficult. If the potential instructor say he "loves" the Champ, he will be a good instructor. You are on the right path. But you will still need a few hours in the 170, or 172 to finish your instructions before the test. A lover of Champs who still owns one, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS say the Cessna 172 or 152. > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:34 AM PST US From: John Weber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT opinion from the peanut gallery If you can land a champ well, you can probably land most anything. John Weber Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2017, at 10:22 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS say the Cessna 172 or 152. > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:00 AM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT opinion from the peanut gallery Ray, I have 200 hours in this very champ. I was not clear, I am becoming a CFI and if I get this plane, what are the pros or cons? Vs a 172 or 152/150? On May 13, 2017 10:05 AM, "(null) raykrause" wrote: > raykrause@frontiernet.net> > > You will become a much better pilot by learning to fly in the Champ. But > finding an instructor ( a good one) will be more difficult. If the > potential instructor say he "loves" the Champ, he will be a good > instructor. You are on the right path. But you will still need a few hours > in the 170, or 172 to finish your instructions before the test. > > A lover of Champs who still owns one, > > Ray Krause > > Sent from my iPad > > > On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Steven Dortch > wrote: > > > > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is > y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS > say the Cessna 172 or 152. > > > > -- > > Blue Skies, > > Steve D > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:14 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery From: "taildrags" Steve: my comments follow. My first flight in an airplane was in a Luscombe. My first solo was in a J-3. My next first solo (I ran out of money in college and didn't fly again for 8 years) was in a Citabria GCAA. Do you see where this is going? ;o) If you get your CFI and can instruct in tailwheel aircraft, you will be in a rather sparse, if not elite, group of instructors who still do so. While it is easier to give dual in a side-by-side arrangement, I think receiving dual in a tandem aircraft gives the student less of "the instructor can see everything I'm doing wrong" feeling and also makes them have to think and act more independently. And my last comment, most military fighter pilots learn and fly in tandem-seating aircraft. Yes, there are many exceptions, but don't you want to be like a fighter pilot/instructor? ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469278#469278 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:59 PM PST US From: Scott Knowlton Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery Oscar and Pietenpeople Well said Oscar! I don't come from a fighter pilot background but I've been blessed with lots of instructing opportunities in tailwheel airplanes for 25 years. I wholeheartedly agree that the best place for the student is in the front of a tandem and the best place for an instructor is of course in the back. I've taught zero time ab initio in Champs, trike to tailwheel conversions (it isn't classed as a rating in Canada) and done a multitude of tow pilot training and check outs in Citabrias and Cessna L-19s. >From the perspective of the student he/she learns the effects of yaw and develops a centreline sight picture far quicker in a tandem than in a side by each. Tandem aircraft are typically longer coupled contributing to a greater forgiveness in ground handling. As Oscar said, whether dual or solo the student can't see their instructor - great for confidence during the first solo compared to that cavernous empty seat sitting next to them! >From the rear seat you can see the beginnings of a yaw event much sooner as the yaw picture is amplified as you move back from the C of G (aiming a rifle vs a pistol analogy); you can shadow the stick and rudder without student awareness (great confidence builder) and finally you can quietly sit and enjoy the view of a summer flying evening without your student wondering why your body language suggests you're completely unengaged in their lesson! I don't have a business providing tailwheel competency - people contact me through friends and colleagues. I never feel I'm "cutting the grass" of a new flight instructor hungry for hours because few if any have tailwheel skills to begin with. This wouldn't be the case if I taught in a trike. My day job is training and checking on the line and in the simulator at my airline. I'm used to keen, motivated and engaged candidates. By no coincidence, pilots who wish to master tailwheel skills are cut from the same cloth. This makes for a great experience every time I go flying with them. My vote is the Champ. Scott Knowlton > On May 13, 2017, at 4:54 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > Steve: my comments follow. > > My first flight in an airplane was in a Luscombe. My first solo was in a J-3. My next first solo (I ran out of money in college and didn't fly again for 8 years) was in a Citabria GCAA. Do you see where this is going? ;o) > > If you get your CFI and can instruct in tailwheel aircraft, you will be in a rather sparse, if not elite, group of instructors who still do so. > > While it is easier to give dual in a side-by-side arrangement, I think receiving dual in a tandem aircraft gives the student less of "the instructor can see everything I'm doing wrong" feeling and also makes them have to think and act more independently. > > And my last comment, most military fighter pilots learn and fly in tandem-seating aircraft. Yes, there are many exceptions, but don't you want to be like a fighter pilot/instructor? ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469278#469278 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:48 PM PST US From: "(null) raykrause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT opinion from the peanut gallery Steven, In my estimate, the Champ is a real plane. It is very simple, the essence of flight. Whenever you think you know how to fly it, it will bite you in the b utt and make you very humble. If you can fly the Champ well, you can fly any thing. Most other planes will fly faster and further, consume more gas and m ake you look like an expert...and really cool. But anyone who can REALLY fly a Champ will understand. My grandson learned in our Champ and got his license when he was a senior in high school. In just a few hours he was flying the 172. He is a much better pilot than I ever will be. However, I also learned to fly in a Champ 69 yea rs ago...not the same plane, but a 7 AC. TODAY's young people just learn b etter and faster. Enjoy the Champ, you will never regret it. Become a real pilot! Ray Krause SkyScout should fly this summer! Sent from my iPad > On May 13, 2017, at 8:13 AM, Steven Dortch wro te: > > Ray, I have 200 hours in this very champ. > I was not clear, I am becoming a CFI and if I get this plane, what are the pros or cons? Vs a 172 or 152/150? > >> On May 13, 2017 10:05 AM, "(null) raykrause" w rote: iernet.net> >> >> You will become a much better pilot by learning to fly in the Champ. But f inding an instructor ( a good one) will be more difficult. If the potential i nstructor say he "loves" the Champ, he will be a good instructor. You are on the right path. But you will still need a few hours in the 170, or 172 to f inish your instructions before the test. >> >> A lover of Champs who still owns one, >> >> Ray Krause >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Steven Dortch w rote: >> > >> > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y 'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS sa y the Cessna 172 or 152. >> > >> > -- >> > Blue Skies, >> > Steve D >> >> >> ========================= >> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========================= >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========================= >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========================= >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========================= >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.