Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:23 AM - Re: piet (jarheadpilot82)
2. 07:45 AM - Re: piet (jarheadpilot82)
3. 09:13 AM - Re: piet (taildrags)
4. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: piet (Glen Schweizer)
5. 09:43 AM - Re: piet (jarheadpilot82)
6. 09:50 AM - Re: piet (jarheadpilot82)
7. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: piet (Brian)
8. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: piet (Jack Philips)
9. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: piet (Glen Schweizer)
10. 08:12 PM - Re: piet (taildrags)
Message 1
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For a general discussion of Pre Buy Inspections, what they are, what they are not,
and what they should accomplish, I have attached a link to an old Uncontrolled
Airspace podcast. In it, Mike Busch discusses the Pre-Buy process. He discusses
it from a certified airplane standpoint, but I think that the information
is still good for any one looking to buy any airplane.
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/4/b/a4bcfe2c77df5d62/UCAP066.mp3?c_id=1739458&expiration=1517764387&hwt=7f73f2ea0d669ea20db926b764c4b6ad
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477808#477808
Message 2
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Glen,
Just to be clear, you do not ever need an IA to work on an experimental aircraft.
Under the FARs, as the owner, but not the builder, of an experimental airplane
you are allowed to do any maintenance on your airplane with the exception
of the conditional inspection, which is not an annual. It is essentially the same
thing, but it is a "conditional" inspection that can be done by either the
holder of the repairman's certificate for that specific airplane, or any A&P.
An Annual does require an A&P/IA. A conditional inspection does not. That is
the big difference.
The reality is that anybody can do a Pre-Buy on an experimental aircraft. A Pre-Buy
is not even required to complete a sale, although that would be a foolish
thing to do, in my opinion. I would not necessarily recommend that a buyer who
has no background on a particular aircraft (such as a Pietenpol) should go it
alone, but he can if he wants to. Most A&P's any more know little to nothing
about wood and fabric airplanes. I would submit to you that a member of a local
EAA chapter or a technical counselor who is experienced in wooden airplanes
would be a far better resource to assess a Pietenpol and whether or not it was
worth buying, than an A&P/IA who only works on certified aircraft.
No Pre-Buy inspection ever needs to be entered into an aircraft's logbook, and,
if I were the seller, the A&P chosen to do a Pre-Buy would not have my permission
to enter anything in the logbook. A Pre-Buy is a look-see. It is not an
inspection and really should not be called an inspection as that is a very specific
term under FAR 43. Listen to the podcast that I linked to above and I think
it will clear up some misconceptions on what a Pre-Buy is, what it is not,
and what a Buyer should be allowed to do as part of a Pre-Buy.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477813#477813
Message 3
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Not to color this discussion too much with unrelated comments, but if you own an
experimental that someone else built and registered, you may not have the option
to have the builder perform the condition inspections unless the person actually
applied for and received a Repairman's Certificate for it and if the person
is still willing and available.
The builder of my Air Camper, Corky Corbett, is no longer living. Even if he were,
he might not agree to perform the inspection for liability reasons, given
the modifications and changes that have been made to the airplane since I've
owned it.
Terry, thanks for the very valuable articles by Mike Busch.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477815#477815
Message 4
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Hi Terry
I agree entirely with your post. I was, however, discussing from a ga perspective
as what most mechanics do as a prebuy. Most are done as an annual thus the
discussion of an annual.
Im fortunate to be around Stearman, Waco, staggerwings, robins etc as my job
during the week so Im around people all week long who are very knowledgeable
about the beautiful 70-90 year old airplanes. You are right that many mechanics
think a round engine means turbine and the very thought that an airplane could
be made of wood or covered in what? Could ever fly,is completely beyond comprehension.
I too recommend active membership in EAA for the wealth of new people
and a huge knowledge base.(where else could I learn how to back braid a
cable end instead of swaging).
In any case the reason for my post was to stress the importance of becoming
intimately familiar with every physical aspect of the airplane youre considering
putting in your hangar. Blue skies. Glen
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 7:45 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Glen,
>
> Just to be clear, you do not ever need an IA to work on an experimental aircraft.
Under the FARs, as the owner, but not the builder, of an experimental airplane
you are allowed to do any maintenance on your airplane with the exception
of the conditional inspection, which is not an annual. It is essentially the
same thing, but it is a "conditional" inspection that can be done by either the
holder of the repairman's certificate for that specific airplane, or any A&P.
An Annual does require an A&P/IA. A conditional inspection does not. That is
the big difference.
>
> The reality is that anybody can do a Pre-Buy on an experimental aircraft. A Pre-Buy
is not even required to complete a sale, although that would be a foolish
thing to do, in my opinion. I would not necessarily recommend that a buyer
who has no background on a particular aircraft (such as a Pietenpol) should go
it alone, but he can if he wants to. Most A&P's any more know little to nothing
about wood and fabric airplanes. I would submit to you that a member of a local
EAA chapter or a technical counselor who is experienced in wooden airplanes
would be a far better resource to assess a Pietenpol and whether or not it
was worth buying, than an A&P/IA who only works on certified aircraft.
>
> No Pre-Buy inspection ever needs to be entered into an aircraft's logbook, and,
if I were the seller, the A&P chosen to do a Pre-Buy would not have my permission
to enter anything in the logbook. A Pre-Buy is a look-see. It is not an
inspection and really should not be called an inspection as that is a very specific
term under FAR 43. Listen to the podcast that I linked to above and I
think it will clear up some misconceptions on what a Pre-Buy is, what it is not,
and what a Buyer should be allowed to do as part of a Pre-Buy.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477813#477813
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Is a back braid the same as or similar to a 5-tuck Navy Splice? If so, you are
my hero! I am extremely jealous.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477818#477818
Message 6
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Is a back braid the same as or similar to a 5-tuck Navy Splice? If so, you are
my hero! I am extremely jealous.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477819#477819
Message 7
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Great info Terry. Thanks for posting.
Brian
Meridian, ID
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 8:45 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Glen,
>
> Just to be clear, you do not ever need an IA to work on an experimental aircraft.
Under the FARs, as the owner, but not the builder, of an experimental airplane
you are allowed to do any maintenance on your airplane with the exception
of the conditional inspection, which is not an annual. It is essentially the
same thing, but it is a "conditional" inspection that can be done by either the
holder of the repairman's certificate for that specific airplane, or any A&P.
An Annual does require an A&P/IA. A conditional inspection does not. That is
the big difference.
>
> The reality is that anybody can do a Pre-Buy on an experimental aircraft. A Pre-Buy
is not even required to complete a sale, although that would be a foolish
thing to do, in my opinion. I would not necessarily recommend that a buyer
who has no background on a particular aircraft (such as a Pietenpol) should go
it alone, but he can if he wants to. Most A&P's any more know little to nothing
about wood and fabric airplanes. I would submit to you that a member of a local
EAA chapter or a technical counselor who is experienced in wooden airplanes
would be a far better resource to assess a Pietenpol and whether or not it
was worth buying, than an A&P/IA who only works on certified aircraft.
>
> No Pre-Buy inspection ever needs to be entered into an aircraft's logbook, and,
if I were the seller, the A&P chosen to do a Pre-Buy would not have my permission
to enter anything in the logbook. A Pre-Buy is a look-see. It is not an
inspection and really should not be called an inspection as that is a very specific
term under FAR 43. Listen to the podcast that I linked to above and I
think it will clear up some misconceptions on what a Pre-Buy is, what it is not,
and what a Buyer should be allowed to do as part of a Pre-Buy.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477813#477813
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Good post, Terry.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet", Pietenpol Air Camper, Flying since 2004
N142KW, RV-10, hopefully flying by the end of this year
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jarheadpilot82
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 10:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
--> <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
Glen,
Just to be clear, you do not ever need an IA to work on an experimental
aircraft. Under the FARs, as the owner, but not the builder, of an
experimental airplane you are allowed to do any maintenance on your airplane
with the exception of the conditional inspection, which is not an annual. It
is essentially the same thing, but it is a "conditional" inspection that can
be done by either the holder of the repairman's certificate for that
specific airplane, or any A&P. An Annual does require an A&P/IA. A
conditional inspection does not. That is the big difference.
The reality is that anybody can do a Pre-Buy on an experimental aircraft. A
Pre-Buy is not even required to complete a sale, although that would be a
foolish thing to do, in my opinion. I would not necessarily recommend that a
buyer who has no background on a particular aircraft (such as a Pietenpol)
should go it alone, but he can if he wants to. Most A&P's any more know
little to nothing about wood and fabric airplanes. I would submit to you
that a member of a local EAA chapter or a technical counselor who is
experienced in wooden airplanes would be a far better resource to assess a
Pietenpol and whether or not it was worth buying, than an A&P/IA who only
works on certified aircraft.
No Pre-Buy inspection ever needs to be entered into an aircraft's logbook,
and, if I were the seller, the A&P chosen to do a Pre-Buy would not have my
permission to enter anything in the logbook. A Pre-Buy is a look-see. It is
not an inspection and really should not be called an inspection as that is a
very specific term under FAR 43. Listen to the podcast that I linked to
above and I think it will clear up some misconceptions on what a Pre-Buy is,
what it is not, and what a Buyer should be allowed to do as part of a
Pre-Buy.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477813#477813
Message 9
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Picture a five tuck splice wrapped with safety wire then soldered. The safety wire
is very distinct in that it is comprised of three sections to keep everything
flexible. One segment wraps the portion where the thickness tapers to original,
one in the middle of splice and fewer wraps and one where the cable forms
the eye.
Its kinda like trying to braid a handful of needles. The first several times
I was a bloody mess. They look cool but not really seen by many people
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 9:43 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Is a back braid the same as or similar to a 5-tuck Navy Splice? If so, you are
my hero! I am extremely jealous.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477818#477818
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets'
Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck
splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only
imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable
with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard
the USS Jerauld.
But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging
has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John
Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when
he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet,
just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834
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