Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: piet (William Geipel)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: piet (Boatright, Jeffrey)
3. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: piet (Jack Philips)
4. 09:13 AM - Re: piet (taildrags)
5. 09:14 AM - Unusual part (Steven Dortch)
6. 10:42 AM - Re: Unusual part (Glen Schweizer)
7. 11:40 AM - Re: Unusual part (Andrew Hoots)
8. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: piet (William Geipel)
9. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: piet (Steven Dortch)
10. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: piet (Steven Dortch)
11. 08:47 PM - Re: piet (taildrags)
12. 11:30 PM - Re: Unusual part (Gerrit-Jan Kaal)
Message 1
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How reliable is this engine?
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets'
Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck
splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can
only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable
with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard
the USS Jerauld.
>
> But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging
has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John
Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when
he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet,
just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Message 3
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I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the
Subaru=99s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal
crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine. And
what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the
reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush=99s Subaru powered
Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the
Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use that
engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair
on it.
Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Boatright, Jeffrey
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I
don=99t know the reasons.
IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a
Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be
surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a
reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of
previous wear or damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more
unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all
of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out.
I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out
well in the long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t
exist, but
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Core Director & Research Biologist
Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
From: <owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> > on behalf of
William Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com <mailto:l129bs@gmail.com> >
<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> " <pietenpol-list@matronics.com
<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >
" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
<mailto:l129bs@gmail.com> >
How reliable is this engine?
On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com
<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote:
<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com> >
Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy
Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught
me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable
with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck
1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the
Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.
But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes,
turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an
EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew
out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are
photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll
down to the Js for John Dilatush.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834
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Message 4
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I don't know the exact cause of the engine stoppage that caused John's Subaru-powered
Piet to crash, but I have this information from Greg Bacon:
"John simply told me the engine quit and he landed it shortly after take off from
the airport in Jefferson, IA. After the landing, someone helped him take the
wings off and put it in a hanger there. When I got the airplane home, I removed
the engine cowl and found the main intake hose disconnected from the top
of the intake manifold. From that, I drew the conclusion that the hose clamp
was insufficient to keep the hose attached under the pressures generated by the
turbo. Heat, vibration, and turbo pressure slowly allowed the hose to come
loose. When it did, the engine started drawing air at that location, causing
the engine to lean out and die."
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477850#477850
Message 5
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Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no
record of this part or the tools to install it.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Unusual part |
That requires the use of a single dimensional Cnc milling machine operated in reverse
using negative number coordinates for x and y axis measurements z axis
measurements must be in alphabetical order use an inverse plasma source only.
Absolutely no 3phase electricity!
This is how deHavalind did it back in the twenties Im sure
> On Feb 5, 2018, at 9:13 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no record
of this part or the tools to install it.
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
> <DeHavaland part.jpg>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Unusual part |
MC Escher Aero Parts may still have some in stock.
Andy Hoots
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 5, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no record
of this part or the tools to install it.
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
> <DeHavaland part.jpg>
Message 8
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Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different
engine on? Motor mounts available or
Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be
nice at 8=99300=99.
Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming.
Bill
> On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
wrote:
>
> I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru
=99s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an
RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar
Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg
Bacon now owns John Dilatush=99s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that
John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob. I don=99t
know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more
proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it.
>
> Jack Phillips
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of
Boatright, Jeffrey
> Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
>
> I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I
don=99t know the reasons.
>
> IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding
a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be
surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a
reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of
previous wear or damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more
unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all
of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out.
>
> I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out
well in the long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t
exist, but
>
> --
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
> Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Core Director & Research Biologist
> Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
>
>
> From: <owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>> on behalf of William
Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com <mailto:l129bs@gmail.com>>
<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com
<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
> Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM
> To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com
<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com
<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
>
<mailto:l129bs@gmail.com>>
>
> How reliable is this engine?
>
>
>> On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com
<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>> wrote:
<taildrags@hotmail.com <mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>>
>> Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old
Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he
taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in
cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to
5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in
the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.
>> But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes,
turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an
EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew
out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are
photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll
down to the Js for John Dilatush.
>> --------
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Medford, OR
>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>> Read this topic online here:
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution
> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact
> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
> original message (including attachments).
Message 9
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O-200s make a nice higher horsepower match for Pietenpols. They make their
power at RPMs on the higher end of what really works. Parts are plentiful,
and they are stone simple to work on. It would not be a bad choice. motor
mounts can be found
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, William Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
> Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different
> engine on? Motor mounts available or
> Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice
> at 8=99300=99.
>
> Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru
=99s reputation in
> Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a
> failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in
> his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush
=99s
> Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure
> with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use
that
> engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair
on
> it.
>
> Jack Phillips
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of *Boatright,
> Jeffrey
> *Sent:* Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
>
> I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I
> don=99t know the reasons.
>
> IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a
> Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprise
d
> by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine.
> With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or
> damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms
of the
> rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need
to
> be worked out.
>
> I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out we
ll in the
> long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but
>
> --
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
> Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Core Director & Research Biologist
> Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
>
>
> *From: *<owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of William
> Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM
> *To: *"pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
>
>
> How reliable is this engine?
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy
> Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught
me
> the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with
> wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or
> 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWI
I
> as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.
> But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes,
> turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an
> EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew ou
t
> of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photo
s
> of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to
> the Js for John Dilatush.
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
> Read this topic online here:
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact
> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
> original message (including attachments).
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 10
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O-200s make a nice higher horsepower match for Pietenpols. They make their
power at RPMs on the higher end but still in the sweet spot. Parts are
plentiful, and they are stone simple to work on. It would not be a bad
choice. motor mounts can be found or made. If they are already made you
fit the plane to the back of the motormount.
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, William Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
> Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different
> engine on? Motor mounts available or
> Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice
> at 8=99300=99.
>
> Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru
=99s reputation in
> Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a
> failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in
> his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush
=99s
> Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure
> with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use
that
> engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair
on
> it.
>
> Jack Phillips
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of *Boatright,
> Jeffrey
> *Sent:* Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
>
> I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I
> don=99t know the reasons.
>
> IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a
> Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprise
d
> by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine.
> With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or
> damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms
of the
> rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need
to
> be worked out.
>
> I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out we
ll in the
> long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but
>
> --
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
> Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Core Director & Research Biologist
> Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
>
>
> *From: *<owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of William
> Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM
> *To: *"pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet
>
>
> How reliable is this engine?
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy
> Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught
me
> the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with
> wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or
> 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWI
I
> as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.
> But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes,
> turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an
> EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew ou
t
> of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photo
s
> of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to
> the Js for John Dilatush.
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
> Read this topic online here:
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact
> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
> original message (including attachments).
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 11
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|
Jack (Phillips)- sorry about my oversight in not mentioning the engine stoppage
as being the cause of the crash of John's Subaru-powered Piet. It was not intentional...
I'm no big champion of the Subaru. I like the engine design and
the water cooling, and they are said to be durable engines in cars, but they have
to be revved up to develop their rated HP and if you try to use the factory
ignition and fuel systems, you have to also use their engine control module
and it would be hard to find a more complicated and arcane setup than the Subaru
ECM. There is limp-home mode and wires to be crossed and this jumper and that
trick to get them to run without the car sensors and modules and O2 sensors
and all the rest of it... definitely not for the faint of heart and not something
that can readily be worked on in the field. "Stone simple" does not generally
describe the injected, turbocharged Subaru engine!
Steve D., regarding the Piet engine mount for the O-200, is it not the same mount
as for the A65-75-85-C90? I have no experience with how the accessory case
on the O-200 fits the mount for the -8 small Continentals that only have the
mags on the rear of the engine, so I don't know how everything fits the mount
crossmembers of the Continental mount that is available with the plans from the
Pietenpol family. The engine mount bushings for all of those engines are the
same, and I assume that the engine mounting bolt geometry is the same for all
of those engines, but I have not studied that. The dry weight for all of those
shows up as about 170 lbs, but of course that is highly dependent on the accessories,
prop hub, oil tank, and other variations.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477866#477866
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Re: Unusual part |
Looks like MC Escher designed this ;-)
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no
> record of this part or the tools to install it.
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
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