---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/05/18: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: piet (William Geipel) 2. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: piet (Boatright, Jeffrey) 3. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: piet (Jack Philips) 4. 09:13 AM - Re: piet (taildrags) 5. 09:14 AM - Unusual part (Steven Dortch) 6. 10:42 AM - Re: Unusual part (Glen Schweizer) 7. 11:40 AM - Re: Unusual part (Andrew Hoots) 8. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: piet (William Geipel) 9. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: piet (Steven Dortch) 10. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: piet (Steven Dortch) 11. 08:47 PM - Re: piet (taildrags) 12. 11:30 PM - Re: Unusual part (Gerrit-Jan Kaal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet From: William Geipel How reliable is this engine? > On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags wrote: > > > Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld. > > But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:38 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet SSBrbm93IG9mIGF0IGxlYXN0IHRocmVlIGxvY2FsbHkgdGhhdCBoYXZlIGZhaWxlZCB3aGlsZSBp biB0aGUgYWlyLiBJIGRvbuKAmXQga25vdyB0aGUgcmVhc29ucy4NCg0KSU1PLCB5b3UgYXJlIG11 Y2gsIG11Y2ggYmV0dGVyIG9mZiBnZXR0aW5nIHRoZSBtYW51YWxzIGFuZCByZWJ1aWxkaW5nIGEg Q29udGluZW50YWwuIFllcyBwYXJ0cyBjb3N0cyBhcmUgaGlnaCwgYW5kIHllcywgeW91IGNhbiBz dGlsbCBiZSBzdXJwcmlzZWQgYnkgdW5leHBlY3RlZCB3ZWFyIG9yIGRhbWFnZSwgYnV0IGluIHRo ZSBlbmQsIHlvdSBoYXZlIGEgcmVsaWFibGUgZW5naW5lLiBXaXRoIHRoZSBTb29icywgeW91IGhh 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In addition to the Subaru=99s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush=99s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it. Jack Phillips Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don=99t know the reasons. IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out. I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Core Director & Research Biologist Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation From: > on behalf of William Geipel > " > " > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > How reliable is this engine? On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags > wrote: > Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld. But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834 _____ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet From: "taildrags" I don't know the exact cause of the engine stoppage that caused John's Subaru-powered Piet to crash, but I have this information from Greg Bacon: "John simply told me the engine quit and he landed it shortly after take off from the airport in Jefferson, IA. After the landing, someone helped him take the wings off and put it in a hanger there. When I got the airplane home, I removed the engine cowl and found the main intake hose disconnected from the top of the intake manifold. From that, I drew the conclusion that the hose clamp was insufficient to keep the hose attached under the pressures generated by the turbo. Heat, vibration, and turbo pressure slowly allowed the hose to come loose. When it did, the engine started drawing air at that location, causing the engine to lean out and die." -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477850#477850 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:16 AM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Pietenpol-List: Unusual part Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no record of this part or the tools to install it. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:54 AM PST US From: Glen Schweizer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Unusual part That requires the use of a single dimensional Cnc milling machine operated in reverse using negative number coordinates for x and y axis measurements z axis measurements must be in alphabetical order use an inverse plasma source only. Absolutely no 3phase electricity! This is how deHavalind did it back in the twenties Im sure > On Feb 5, 2018, at 9:13 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no record of this part or the tools to install it. > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:43 AM PST US From: Andrew Hoots Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Unusual part MC Escher Aero Parts may still have some in stock. Andy Hoots Sent from my iPad > On Feb 5, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no record of this part or the tools to install it. > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:48 PM PST US From: William Geipel Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different engine on? Motor mounts available or Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice at 8=99300=99. Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming. Bill > On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips wrote: > > I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru =99s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush=99s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it. > > Jack Phillips > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey > Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don=99t know the reasons. > > IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out. > > I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but > > -- > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Core Director & Research Biologist > Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation > > > From: > on behalf of William Geipel > " > > Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com " > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > > How reliable is this engine? > > >> On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags > wrote: > >> Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld. >> But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush. >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop >> Read this topic online here: >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834 > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://wiki.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:38 PM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet O-200s make a nice higher horsepower match for Pietenpols. They make their power at RPMs on the higher end of what really works. Parts are plentiful, and they are stone simple to work on. It would not be a bad choice. motor mounts can be found On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, William Geipel wrote: > Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different > engine on? Motor mounts available or > Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice > at 8=99300=99. > > Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming. > > Bill > > > On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips wrote: > > I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru =99s reputation in > Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a > failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in > his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush =99s > Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure > with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use that > engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on > it. > > Jack Phillips > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of *Boatright, > Jeffrey > *Sent:* Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I > don=99t know the reasons. > > IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a > Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprise d > by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. > With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or > damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the > rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to > be worked out. > > I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out we ll in the > long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but > > -- > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Core Director & Research Biologist > Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation > > > *From: * on behalf of William > Geipel > *Date: *Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM > *To: *"pietenpol-list@matronics.com" > *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > How reliable is this engine? > > > On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags wrote: > Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy > Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me > the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with > wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or > 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWI I > as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld. > But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, > turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an > EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew ou t > of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photo s > of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to > the Js for John Dilatush. > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ------------------------------ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:39 PM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet O-200s make a nice higher horsepower match for Pietenpols. They make their power at RPMs on the higher end but still in the sweet spot. Parts are plentiful, and they are stone simple to work on. It would not be a bad choice. motor mounts can be found or made. If they are already made you fit the plane to the back of the motormount. On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, William Geipel wrote: > Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different > engine on? Motor mounts available or > Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice > at 8=99300=99. > > Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming. > > Bill > > > On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips wrote: > > I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru =99s reputation in > Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a > failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in > his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush =99s > Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure > with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use that > engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on > it. > > Jack Phillips > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of *Boatright, > Jeffrey > *Sent:* Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I > don=99t know the reasons. > > IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a > Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprise d > by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. > With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or > damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the > rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to > be worked out. > > I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out we ll in the > long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but > > -- > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Core Director & Research Biologist > Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation > > > *From: * on behalf of William > Geipel > *Date: *Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM > *To: *"pietenpol-list@matronics.com" > *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > How reliable is this engine? > > > On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags wrote: > Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy > Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me > the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with > wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or > 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWI I > as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld. > But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, > turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an > EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew ou t > of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photo s > of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to > the Js for John Dilatush. > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ------------------------------ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet From: "taildrags" Jack (Phillips)- sorry about my oversight in not mentioning the engine stoppage as being the cause of the crash of John's Subaru-powered Piet. It was not intentional... I'm no big champion of the Subaru. I like the engine design and the water cooling, and they are said to be durable engines in cars, but they have to be revved up to develop their rated HP and if you try to use the factory ignition and fuel systems, you have to also use their engine control module and it would be hard to find a more complicated and arcane setup than the Subaru ECM. There is limp-home mode and wires to be crossed and this jumper and that trick to get them to run without the car sensors and modules and O2 sensors and all the rest of it... definitely not for the faint of heart and not something that can readily be worked on in the field. "Stone simple" does not generally describe the injected, turbocharged Subaru engine! Steve D., regarding the Piet engine mount for the O-200, is it not the same mount as for the A65-75-85-C90? I have no experience with how the accessory case on the O-200 fits the mount for the -8 small Continentals that only have the mags on the rear of the engine, so I don't know how everything fits the mount crossmembers of the Continental mount that is available with the plans from the Pietenpol family. The engine mount bushings for all of those engines are the same, and I assume that the engine mounting bolt geometry is the same for all of those engines, but I have not studied that. The dry weight for all of those shows up as about 170 lbs, but of course that is highly dependent on the accessories, prop hub, oil tank, and other variations. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477866#477866 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:01 PM PST US From: Gerrit-Jan Kaal Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Unusual part Looks like MC Escher designed this ;-) On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no > record of this part or the tools to install it. > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.