---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/06/18: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:01 AM - Re: Re: piet (Boatright, Jeffrey) 2. 03:31 AM - Re: Re: piet (Kip Gardner) 3. 04:44 AM - Re: Re: piet (Steven Dortch) 4. 05:04 AM - Some Continental A65 and Ford Model A parts and pieces and many tools for sale (Steven Dortch) 5. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: piet (shad bell) 6. 08:33 AM - Re: piet (taildrags) 7. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: piet (Scott Knowlton) 8. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: piet (Jack Philips) 9. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: piet (Jack Philips) 10. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: piet (Boatright, Jeffrey) 11. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: piet (Steven Dortch) 12. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: piet (Kip Gardner) 13. 02:45 PM - Fw: B: OT Grumman duck floats for sale (Steven Dortch) 14. 03:49 PM - OT Grumman duck floats (Steven Dortch) 15. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: piet (William Geipel) 16. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: piet (William Geipel) 17. 08:33 PM - Re: piet (taildrags) 18. 09:14 PM - Re: Re: piet (Steven Dortch) 19. 11:04 PM - Re: Unusual part (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:21 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet SSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIEphY2sgdGhhdCBhIENvcnZhaXIgY29udmVyc2lvbiBjYW4gYmUgYW4gYWNj ZXB0YWJsZSBwb3dlcnBsYW50LiAgVGhleSBjYW4gYmUgbWFkZSByZWxpYWJsZSBhbmQgdGhlcmUg aXMgYSBsYXJnZSBiYXNlIG9mIGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ugd2l0aCB0aGVpciB1c2UgaW4gUGlldHMuIElt cG9ydGFudGx5LCB0aHVzIGluY2x1ZGVzIGNyaXRpY2FsIGFuY2lsbGFyaWVzIGxpa2UgZnVlbCBz eXN0ZW1zIGFuZCBtYWludGVuYW5jZSBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGFuZCBvbmUtdGltZSBodXJkbGVzLCBz dWNoIGFzIGVuZ2luZSBtb3VudHMuIEkgZG9uJ3Qga25vdyBpZiBXaWxsaWFtIFd5bm5lIGlzIHN0 aWxsIHJ1bm5pbmcgaGlzIGNvbnZlcnNpb24gYnVzaW5lc3MsIGJ1dCBoaXMgc3R1ZmYgYWxvbmUg aXMgbWFzc2l2ZS4NCg0KVGhhdCBzYWlkLCB5b3UnbGwgc3RpbGwgYmUgZGV2b3RpbmcgYSBsb3Qg 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aW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYXR0YWNobWVudHMpLg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:57 AM PST US From: Kip Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet William Wynne is still going strong by all indications. Also, the other item not mentioned, is the availability of the =985th bearing=99 assembly, which is now a standard part of the conversion and greatly incraeses the reliability of the engine. Kip Gardner BTW, I have not yet put it up on Barnstormers or any other public location, but my project is for sale, I=99ve decided that if flying is going to be part of my life, I need a simpler project, like a RagWing Piet. My farm (which is a pretty all-encompassing =98life project=99 all by itself) and teaching take most of my time and energy. If anyone is interested in a well-along project, with most of what=99s needed to complete it as well, please get in touch for details. located in eastern Ohio. > On Feb 6, 2018, at 4:01 AM, Boatright, Jeffrey wrote: > > I agree with Jack that a Corvair conversion can be an acceptable powerplant. They can be made reliable and there is a large base of experience with their use in Piets. Importantly, thus includes critical ancillaries like fuel systems and maintenance protocols, and one-time hurdles, such as engine mounts. I don't know if William Wynne is still running his conversion business, but his stuff alone is massive. > > That said, you'll still be devoting a lot of time to rebuilding the engine. > > =94=94=94=94=94=94=94=94 =94=94=94=94=94=94=94=94 =94=94=94=94=94=94=94=94=94 =94=94=94=94 > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem > > On Feb 5, 2018, at 9:03 PM, William Geipel > wrote: > >> Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different engine on? Motor mounts available or >> Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice at 8=99300=99. >> >> Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming. >> >> Bill >> >> >>> On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips > wrote: >>> >>> I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru=99s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush=99s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it. >>> >>> Jack Phillips >>> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia >>> >>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey >>> Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM >>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet >>> >>> I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don=99t know the reasons. >>> >>> IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out. >>> >>> I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but >>> >>> -- >>> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO >>> Professor of Ophthalmology >>> Emory University School of Medicine >>> Core Director & Research Biologist >>> Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation >>> >>> >>> From: > on behalf of William Geipel > " > >>> Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM >>> To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com " > >>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet >>> > >>> >>> How reliable is this engine? >>> >>> >>>> On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags > wrote: > >>>> Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld. >>>> But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush. >>>> -------- >>>> Oscar Zuniga >>>> Medford, OR >>>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >>>> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834 >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> http://wiki.matronics.com >>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of >>> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged >>> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended >>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution >>> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly >>> prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this message in error, please contact >>> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the >>> original message (including attachments). >> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:11 AM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet OZ, I don't know if the A65 to O200 are the same mount but have read some things on the reliable sites (Flybaby and a couple of others. that indicate that they are the same. Anyone looking at small engines would do well to read Harry Fenton's input on the flybaby page. http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/engines.htm On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:47 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Jack (Phillips)- sorry about my oversight in not mentioning the engine > stoppage as being the cause of the crash of John's Subaru-powered Piet. It > was not intentional... I'm no big champion of the Subaru. I like the > engine design and the water cooling, and they are said to be durable > engines in cars, but they have to be revved up to develop their rated HP > and if you try to use the factory ignition and fuel systems, you have to > also use their engine control module and it would be hard to find a more > complicated and arcane setup than the Subaru ECM. There is limp-home mode > and wires to be crossed and this jumper and that trick to get them to run > without the car sensors and modules and O2 sensors and all the rest of > it... definitely not for the faint of heart and not something that can > readily be worked on in the field. "Stone simple" does not generally > describe the injected, turbocharged Subaru engine! > > Steve D., regarding the Piet engine mount for the O-200, is it not the > same mount as for the A65-75-85-C90? I have no experience with how the > accessory case on the O-200 fits the mount for the -8 small Continentals > that only have the mags on the rear of the engine, so I don't know how > everything fits the mount crossmembers of the Continental mount that is > available with the plans from the Pietenpol family. The engine mount > bushings for all of those engines are the same, and I assume that the > engine mounting bolt geometry is the same for all of those engines, but I > have not studied that. The dry weight for all of those shows up as about > 170 lbs, but of course that is highly dependent on the accessories, prop > hub, oil tank, and other variations. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477866#477866 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:40 AM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Pietenpol-List: Some Continental A65 and Ford Model A parts and pieces and many tools for sale Pietenpeople I am posting this for two reasons. 1. to help my buddie's family clear his estate and 2. get these parts in front of people who will use them. My old Buddy Lonnie Gillespie's estate in Enid, Oklahoma will be coming up for auction in May. His Hangar includes a bunch of Ford Model A and T parts as well as 6 A65 continental engine cases along with a lot of parts to build up engines. Rivets and fittings, Two small motor mounts one Lycoming one small Continental. He also had a workshop set up with about any tool a mechanic would want. Engine test stands, Saws, drills, presses, hand tools, welding rigs, shear. Many antique tools that he used. A VW beetle project with complete new engine, tires and fenders. A 1947 Aeronca Champ. What a great plane. If you are interested I can tell you what I know about the things for sale. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:41 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet I know the rubbers are a different style on the 0-200. They have a sleeve b ushing that runs thru the rubbers and i think cupped washers. I do believe the mount points are the same dimensions as far as the engine mount goes. =C2- Shad Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:42 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: OZ, I don't know if the A65 to O200 are the same mount but have read some t hings on the reliable sites (Flybaby and a couple of others. that indicate that they are the same. Anyone looking at small engines would do well to read Harry Fenton's input on the flybaby page.=C2- http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/engines.htm On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:47 PM, taildrags wrote: Jack (Phillips)- sorry about my oversight in not mentioning the engine stop page as being the cause of the crash of John's Subaru-powered Piet.=C2- I t was not intentional... I'm no big champion of the Subaru.=C2- I like th e engine design and the water cooling, and they are said to be durable engi nes in cars, but they have to be revved up to develop their rated HP and if you try to use the factory ignition and fuel systems, you have to also use their engine control module and it would be hard to find a more complicate d and arcane setup than the Subaru ECM.=C2- There is limp-home mode and w ires to be crossed and this jumper and that trick to get them to run withou t the car sensors and modules and O2 sensors and all the rest of it... defi nitely not for the faint of heart and not something that can readily be wor ked on in the field.=C2- "Stone simple" does not generally describe the i njected, turbocharged Subaru engine! Steve D., regarding the Piet engine mount for the O-200, is it not the same mount as for the A65-75-85-C90?=C2- I have no experience with how the ac cessory case on the O-200 fits the mount for the -8 small Continentals that only have the mags on the rear of the engine, so I don't know how everythi ng fits the mount crossmembers of the Continental mount that is available w ith the plans from the Pietenpol family.=C2- The engine mount bushings fo r all of those engines are the same, and I assume that the engine mounting bolt geometry is the same for all of those engines, but I have not studied that.=C2- The dry weight for all of those shows up as about 170 lbs, but of course that is highly dependent on the accessories, prop hub, oil tank, and other variations. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=477866#477866 ==== ==================== ========== = br>enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co m/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List ==== ==================== ========== = FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ==== ==================== ========== = WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com ==== ==================== ========== = b Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ contribution ==== ==================== ========== = -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet From: "taildrags" Aircraft Spruce lists the same part number for all of these engines... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477876#477876 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_113.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:25 AM PST US From: Scott Knowlton Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet One of the reasons I went with a C-85 was that I measured the mount profile at the accessory case and found it was exactly the same as an 0-200. If I choose to upgrade to 100 Hp I could always just change out the engine with little to no fuss with the cowl and mount. Of course, dont trust my measuring, do your own research here. Scott K Covering the Piet Wings in Burlington ON Canada. > On Feb 6, 2018, at 9:38 AM, taildrags wrote: > > > Aircraft Spruce lists the same part number for all of these engines... > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477876#477876 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_113.jpg > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:46 PM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet Regardless of what engine you will be putting on a Pietenpol, you will need to build a mount. This ain=99t no sissy KIT Jack Phillips Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 9:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different engine on? Motor mounts available or Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice at 8=99300=99. Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming. Bill On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips > wrote: I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru=99s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush=99s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it. Jack Phillips Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don=99t know the reasons. IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out. I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Core Director & Research Biologist Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation From: < owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of William Geipel < l129bs@gmail.com> pietenpol-list@matronics.com" < pietenpol-list@matronics.com> pietenpol-list@matronics.com" < pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet l129bs@gmail.com> How reliable is this engine? On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags < taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote: taildrags@hotmail.com> Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld. But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:38 PM PST US From: "Jack Philips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet When I changed the engine on my old Cessna 140 from a C85 to an O-200, I had to install a new mount. Jack Phillips Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 11:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet --> Aircraft Spruce lists the same part number for all of these engines... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477876#477876 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_113.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:52 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet SG0uIFdoZW4gd2UgZXhjaGFuZ2VkIHRoZSBBLTY1IGZvciBhIEMtODUsIHRoZSBzYW1lIG1vdW50 IHdvcmtlZC4NCg0KLS0NCkplZmZyZXkgSC4gQm9hdHJpZ2h0LCBQaEQsIEZBUlZPDQpQcm9mZXNz b3Igb2YgT3BodGhhbG1vbG9neQ0KRW1vcnkgVW5pdmVyc2l0eSBTY2hvb2wgb2YgTWVkaWNpbmUN 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There was some change from teh 85 to the C90 and O200. I cant remember which one that is Not a great (still good) the 85 or 90. On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Boatright, Jeffrey wrote: > Hm. When we exchanged the A-65 for a C-85, the same mount worked. > > > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > > Professor of Ophthalmology > > Emory University School of Medicine > > Core Director & Research Biologist > > Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation > > > *From: * on behalf of Jack > Philips > *Date: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 3:19 PM > *To: *"pietenpol-list@matronics.com" > *Subject: *RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > jack@bedfordlandings.com> > > > When I changed the engine on my old Cessna 140 from a C85 to an O-200, I > had > > to install a new mount. > > > Jack Phillips > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of taildrags > > Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 11:34 AM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > > --> > > > Aircraft Spruce lists the same part number for all of these engines... > > > -------- > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477876#477876 > > > Attachments: > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_113.jpg > > > > ------------------------------ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:44 PM PST US From: Kip Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet For those interested in Corvairs, William Wynne is still going strong by all indications. Also, an item not mentioned, is the availability of the =985th bearing=99 assembly, which is now a standard part of the conversion and greatly incraeses the reliability of the engine. Kip Gardner BTW, I have not yet put it up on Barnstormers or any other public location, but my project is for sale, I=99ve decided that if flying is going to be part of my life, I need a simpler project, like a RagWing Piet. My farm (which is a pretty all-encompassing =98life project=99 all by itself) and teaching take most of my time and energy. If anyone is interested in a well-along project, with most of what=99s needed to complete it as well, please get in touch for details. Includes a torn-down Corvair (done at Corvair College #7 under WW supervision) with some of the work towards the rebuild started. Located in eastern Ohio. > On Feb 6, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > 65 to 85 are the same case by in large. There was some change from teh 85 to the C90 and O200. I cant remember which one that is Not a great (still good) the 85 or 90. > > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Boatright, Jeffrey > wrote: > Hm. When we exchanged the A-65 for a C-85, the same mount worked. > > > > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > > Professor of Ophthalmology > > Emory University School of Medicine > > Core Director & Research Biologist > > Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation > > > > > > From: > on behalf of Jack Philips > " > > Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 3:19 PM > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com " > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > > > > > > When I changed the engine on my old Cessna 140 from a C85 to an O-200, I had > > to install a new mount. > > > > Jack Phillips > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of taildrags > > Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 11:34 AM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > > > --> > > > > > Aircraft Spruce lists the same part number for all of these engines... > > > > -------- > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477876#477876 > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_113.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > > > > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:10 PM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: B: OT Grumman duck floats for sale ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Steven Dortch via beech-owners" Subject: B: OT Grumman duck floats for sale Cc: "Steven Dortch" There are a pair of Grumman duck floats in my buddy's estate . If y'all know of someone doing a restoration let them know. I heard one guy is hoping to get them to turn into rides for a Shriners kids train ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:20 PM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Grumman duck floats There are a pair of Grumman duck floats in my buddy's estate . If y'all know of someone doing a restoration let them know. I heard one guy is hoping to get them to turn into rides for a Shriners kids train -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:35 PM PST US From: William Geipel Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet And a new cowling I suppose. > On Feb 6, 2018, at 13:16, Jack Philips wrote: > > Regardless of what engine you will be putting on a Pietenpol, you will need to build a mount. This ain=99t no sissy KIT > > Jack Phillips > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of William Geipel > Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 9:00 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different engine on? Motor mounts available or > Do I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice at 8=99300=99. > > Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming. > > Bill > > >> On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips > wrote: >> >> I agree with Jeff=99s assessment. In addition to the Subaru=99s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush=99s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob. I don=99t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it. >> >> Jack Phillips >> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia >> >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey >> Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet >> >> I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don=99t know the reasons. >> >> IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there=99s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out. >> >> I don=99t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That=99s not to say they don=99t exist, but >> >> -- >> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO >> Professor of Ophthalmology >> Emory University School of Medicine >> Core Director & Research Biologist >> Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation >> >> >> From: > on behalf of William Geipel > " > >> Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM >> To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com " > >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet >> > >> >> How reliable is this engine? >> >> >>> On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags > wrote: > >>> Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld. >>> But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush. >>> -------- >>> Oscar Zuniga >>> Medford, OR >>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >>> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop >>> Read this topic online here: >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834 >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://wiki.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of >> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged >> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution >> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly >> prohibited. >> >> If you have received this message in error, please contact >> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the >> original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:56 PM PST US From: William Geipel Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet but I=99m going from a Subaru to ???. Nothing will match. > On Feb 6, 2018, at 14:15, Steven Dortch wrote: > > 65 to 85 are the same case by in large. There was some change from teh 85 to the C90 and O200. I cant remember which one that is Not a great (still good) the 85 or 90. > > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Boatright, Jeffrey > wrote: > Hm. When we exchanged the A-65 for a C-85, the same mount worked. > > > > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > > Professor of Ophthalmology > > Emory University School of Medicine > > Core Director & Research Biologist > > Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation > > > > > > From: > on behalf of Jack Philips > " > > Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 3:19 PM > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com " > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > > > > > > When I changed the engine on my old Cessna 140 from a C85 to an O-200, I had > > to install a new mount. > > > > Jack Phillips > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of taildrags > > Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 11:34 AM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet > > > > > --> > > > > > Aircraft Spruce lists the same part number for all of these engines... > > > > -------- > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477876#477876 > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_113.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > > > > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet From: "taildrags" Steve; the change in the small Continentals came when the A series went to the C series. The A series engines are all 171 cu.in. (bore 3.875", stroke 3.625") and got different horsepower ratings from 50 to 80 depending on compression ratio and RPM, plus other tweaks here and there. The A80 is the slug of the bunch and is not often seen, the pistons having 5 rings vs 3 on the smaller siblings, so those have higher friction drag and a higher parts count. The A80 puts out its rated power at 2700 RPM, so coupled with more rings on each piston and heavier pistons, they develop more heat and friction at rated output. By contrast the C85 puts out its rated power at a much more modest 2575 RPM, so in this power range the C75 and C85 are much favored over the A80. The early C series, the 75 and 85, are 188 cu.in. displacement by virtue of the bore increasing to 4.0625" over the A series engines. The later C series, the C90 and O200, also have the 4.0625" bore but the stroke is increased to 3.88". From these details you can see how some parts interchange between all of these models, a few interchange between several models, and a few only interchange with a few. You mention one of these engines being not as favored as another, and that would probably be the C85 vs its cousin the C90. The C85 puts out its rated power at 2575 RPM whereas the C90 puts out its rated power at a lower 2475 RPM and develops its best torque at a better operating point due to a different cam. The C90 is said to be the choice for airplanes operating on floats and using small Continentals. As you can well imagine, differences occurred all along the way as electrical systems, starters, fuel pumps, vacuum pumps, and various other accessories were designed to be fitted to these engines by the factory. It's fun to study all of these variations if you're an engine nut like I am (or wannabe, anyway!) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477891#477891 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:22 PM PST US From: Steven Dortch Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet Oscar, what is parts interchangeableity between the A and C? On Feb 6, 2018 10:34 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > Steve; the change in the small Continentals came when the A series went to > the C series. The A series engines are all 171 cu.in. (bore 3.875", > stroke 3.625") and got different horsepower ratings from 50 to 80 depending > on compression ratio and RPM, plus other tweaks here and there. The A80 is > the slug of the bunch and is not often seen, the pistons having 5 rings vs > 3 on the smaller siblings, so those have higher friction drag and a higher > parts count. The A80 puts out its rated power at 2700 RPM, so coupled with > more rings on each piston and heavier pistons, they develop more heat and > friction at rated output. By contrast the C85 puts out its rated power at > a much more modest 2575 RPM, so in this power range the C75 and C85 are > much favored over the A80. > > The early C series, the 75 and 85, are 188 cu.in. displacement by virtue > of the bore increasing to 4.0625" over the A series engines. > > The later C series, the C90 and O200, also have the 4.0625" bore but the > stroke is increased to 3.88". From these details you can see how some > parts interchange between all of these models, a few interchange between > several models, and a few only interchange with a few. You mention one of > these engines being not as favored as another, and that would probably be > the C85 vs its cousin the C90. The C85 puts out its rated power at 2575 > RPM whereas the C90 puts out its rated power at a lower 2475 RPM and > develops its best torque at a better operating point due to a different > cam. The C90 is said to be the choice for airplanes operating on floats > and using small Continentals. > > As you can well imagine, differences occurred all along the way as > electrical systems, starters, fuel pumps, vacuum pumps, and various other > accessories were designed to be fitted to these engines by the factory. > It's fun to study all of these variations if you're an engine nut like I am > (or wannabe, anyway!) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477891#477891 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:07 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Unusual part These are the folks that are everything Dehaviland. If they can't help you then not even Heaven can! https://www.vikingair.com/ Can anyone advise me on making this part? De Havilland says they have no record of this part or the tools to install it. -- Blue Skies, Steve D Virus-free. www.avg.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.