Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 PM - New member (Bruce Clemens)
2. 01:04 PM - Re: New member ((null) raykrause)
3. 01:20 PM - Re: New member (Bruce Clemens)
4. 01:26 PM - Re: New member (Boatright, Jeffrey)
5. 02:20 PM - Re: New member (Bruce Clemens)
6. 03:16 PM - Re: New member (Jim Boyer)
7. 03:19 PM - Re: New member (Glen Schweizer)
8. 04:20 PM - Re: New member (Bruce Clemens)
9. 07:18 PM - Re: New member (jarheadpilot82)
Message 1
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Hello,I just joined this list.I am recently retired and my wife will soon be.We
rcently bought a little home and hangar at Hacienda Sur Luna Airpark in deep
southern New Mexico. We love it there.Not yet there full time but in a year or
so we will sell our home in Missouri and move out.I don't have a plane and have
been considering what I would like to fly around when we get out there. It's
class G airspace.I got my license in a J-3 a long time ago and most of my flying
time is in taildraggers. I just can't bring myself to buy a Cessna 150 or
something like that cheap just to get in the air. But good taildraggers seem
to command a premium that I can't easily afford.I think that for tooling around
on a beautiful desert morning, an Air Camper would be perfect.No radio, no hassles,
just pure early 20th century flying.I think I can build all of it and
will try to begin with the engine.Corvair?Any counter opinions?I am ready to learn.Best,Bruce
Message 2
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Bruce,
Welcome to the list. I just finished the Skyscout. You should also be on the
Facebook Pietenpol forum. That=99s where most of the information resi
des.
Good look, enjoy,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 13, 2018, at 12:39 PM, Bruce Clemens <clemensfam3@sbcglobal.net> wrot
e:
Hello,
I just joined this list.
I am recently retired and my wife will soon be.
We rcently bought a little home and hangar at Hacienda Sur Luna Airpark in d
eep southern New Mexico. We love it there.
Not yet there full time but in a year or so we will sell our home in Missour
i and move out.
I don't have a plane and have been considering what I would like to fly arou
nd when we get out there. It's class G airspace.
I got my license in a J-3 a long time ago and most of my flying time is in t
aildraggers. I just can't bring myself to buy a Cessna 150 or something like
that cheap just to get in the air. But good taildraggers seem to command a p
remium that I can't easily afford.
I think that for tooling around on a beautiful desert morning, an Air Camper
would be perfect.
No radio, no hassles, just pure early 20th century flying.
I think I can build all of it and will try to begin with the engine.
Corvair?
Any counter opinions?
I am ready to learn.
Best,
Bruce
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Message 3
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Thank you, Ray. Yes, I have just sent my request to join. Congrats on just
finishing the Skyscout! Have you flown it yet?Was it your first build?I app
reciate your welcome.Best,Bruce
From: raykrause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New member
Bruce,Welcome to the list. I just finished the Skyscout. You should also be
on the Facebook Pietenpol forum. That=99s where most of the informat
ion resides.Good look, enjoy,Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 13, 2018, at 12:39 PM, Bruce Clemens <clemensfam3@sbcglobal.net> wro
te:
Hello,I just joined this list.I am recently retired and my wife will soon b
e.We rcently bought a little home and hangar at Hacienda Sur Luna Airpark i
n deep southern New Mexico. We love it there.Not yet there full time but in
a year or so we will sell our home in Missouri and move out.I don't have a
plane and have been considering what I would like to fly around when we ge
t out there. It's class G airspace.I got my license in a J-3 a long time ag
o and most of my flying time is in taildraggers. I just can't bring myself
to buy a Cessna 150 or something like that cheap just to get in the air. Bu
t good taildraggers seem to command a premium that I can't easily afford.I
think that for tooling around on a beautiful desert morning, an Air Camper
would be perfect.No radio, no hassles, just pure early 20th century flying.
I think I can build all of it and will try to begin with the engine.Corvair
?Any counter opinions?I am ready to learn.Best,Bruce=======
===>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=====
=====cs.com==================
=================om=======
===matronics.com/contribution=============
=====================
Message 4
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Message 5
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Jeff, thank you for your thoughtful welcome.Take a nap! Yes, my speed too!!
!=C2-Your main question as to whether I want to fly right now or later wo
uld be answered by yes! LOLBut no, I am ready to wait. My dear wife is a ce
ramics artist and teaches at out local Community College and when she retir
es she will need a portion of the hangar for her clay stuff. I will make su
re that that happens before I worry about my going aloft. But meanwhile I c
an still do my homework! :)So I think my approach will be to figure out how
to nail down an engine, and then work on an airframe.=C2-
I very much appreciate your point about all of us being one medical away fr
om grounded. I take that point strongly for the reason that Cathy (my wife)
and I were involved in a bad traffic accident just three weeks ago where a
man t-boned our Subaru after running a stop sign at 40 MPH. We were rolled
and slid upside down 100 feet before stopping. It was at 7:00 AM on Glenst
one Ave in Springfield on a weekday. We are thankful that it wasn't 8:00 AM
because we were in the oncoming lanes when we stopped. Had there been more
traffic it probably would have come out much worse.In any case we were abl
e to walk away and are OK.
So I've been thinking a lot recently about my mortality. But we have many f
riends at our happy place in NM who fly and will take me whenever I want. S
o I am OK with waiting and dreaming of creating the best plane for Cathy an
d me into our retirement.
I very much look forward to learning and sharing with you and others on thi
s list as I go forward with this dream. Thank you for the advice. I will al
ways welcome more.Best,Bruce
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jboatri@emory.edu>
To: Bruce Clemens <clemensfam3@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New member
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6380344625WordSection1 {}#yiv6380344625 Hi Bruce, =C2- Welcome! The Piet
certainly will be great for tooling around on a beautiful desert morning. A
s to how to get there, a lot depends on your goals. Do you want to fly righ
t now, build, or both? =C2-In retirement, you may have the time to fly in
the mornings and evenings and build during the heat of the day. Or take a
nap (my speed). Given what I see on Barnstormers these days, you may find t
hat you can afford something to fly right now while you build a =9Cdr
eam machine.=9D Lots of solutions for both airframe and engine.=C2-
=C2- There are certainly many Corvair-powered Piets. They fly well and a
re smooth! I started down the Corvair route, but ended up buying a flying P
iet with a Continental so that I could get into the air quicker. I guess th
at=99s another consideration. I=99ve been in an EAA chapter sin
ce the mid-80s. Back then I was the youngest member. Everybody talked about
building and flying, and some did. But an awful lot of people never got ar
ound to finishing their projects and never got much flying in. A lot of tho
se guys are gone now. Not that you=99re asking for life advice, but n
one of us know how long we have. William Wynne, the Corvair Authority, used
to say that we=99re all just one medical away from being grounded. T
hat=99s somewhat less true now with Sport Pilot and new medical certi
fication rules, but in general, it=99s true that we never know how lo
ng we have. Oddly enough, it was his =9Cone medical away from being g
rounded=9D statement he made at our Chapter monthly meeting that spur
red my decision to sell my Corvair project and buy a flying Pietenpol. I
=99m glad I did as I got a lot of hours in the air that I=99d have
never flown if I was still tinkering around on that engine. It led directl
y to my buying a Pitts when the opportunity came along, again based on the
mantra of you never know how long you have left. =C2- Hope to see you fly
ing someday soon! =C2- Jeff =C2- =C2- =C2- --=C2- =C2- Jeffr
ey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University Sch
ool of Medicine Core Director & Research Biologist Atlanta VAMC Center for
Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation =C2- =C2- From: <owner-pietenp
ol-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bruce Clemens <clemensfam3@sbcgl
obal.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New member =C2- Hello, I just joined this list.
I am recently retired and my wife will soon be. We rcently bought a little
home and hangar at Hacienda Sur Luna Airpark in deep southern New Mexico.
We love it there. Not yet there full time but in a year or so we will sell
our home in Missouri and move out. I don't have a plane and have been consi
dering what I would like to fly around when we get out there. It's class G
airspace. I got my license in a J-3 a long time ago and most of my flying t
ime is in taildraggers. I just can't bring myself to buy a Cessna 150 or so
mething like that cheap just to get in the air. But good taildraggers seem
to command a premium that I can't easily afford. I think that for tooling a
round on a beautiful desert morning, an Air Camper would be perfect. No rad
io, no hassles, just pure early 20th century flying. I think I can build al
l of it and will try to begin with the engine. Corvair? Any counter opinion
s? I am ready to learn. Best, Bruce
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Message 6
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Certified airplanes will cost much in terms of annual inspections and just general
maintenance. My 172 cost me $6700 in annuals and relatively minor changes;
ie. generator to alternator in the last three years. Here in CA hangar rents
are high, gas 100LL is high and maintenance rates are high. I would never go certified
again, experimental is the way to go, as you can get repairmans certificate
for the airplane you have built. My biases! Jim
> On June 13, 2018 at 12:39 PM Bruce Clemens <clemensfam3@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Hello,I just joined this list.I am recently retired and my wife will soon
be.
> We rcently bought a little home and hangar at Hacienda Sur Luna Airpark in
deep southern New Mexico. We love it there.
> Not yet there full time but in a year or so we will sell our home in Missouri
and move out.
> I don't have a plane and have been considering what I would like to fly around
when we get out there. It's class G airspace.
> I got my license in a J-3 a long time ago and most of my flying time is in
taildraggers. I just can't bring myself to buy a Cessna 150 or something like
that cheap just to get in the air. But good taildraggers seem to command a premium
that I can't easily afford.
> I think that for tooling around on a beautiful desert morning, an Air Camper
would be perfect.
> No radio, no hassles, just pure early 20th century flying.
> I think I can build all of it and will try to begin with the engine.
> Corvair?
> Any counter opinions?
> I am ready to learn.
> Best,
> Bruce
>
Message 7
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Welcome aboard Bruce
I would like to address two of the issues that you brought up the first one b
eing the Corvair engine. Although there are many of them flying and Mr. Will
iam win has done an awful lot of research, There does seem to be some reliab
ility issues whether this is using worn out parts that have not been properl
y rebuilt or improper building technique who=99s to say the other issu
e I have with corvairs is the cost involved in building one correctly. For t
he seven to $10,000 that you=99re going to have in the building one yo
u can get a nice Mid time firewall forward O 200 Continental.
The next issue I=99d like to deal with would be glue or nail or both r
egarding rib to spar connections I have the good fortune of my job being to k
eep 80-year-old bi planes flying=F0=9F=98=83 part of my job is building wing
s for these old girls fabric covering and paint. We always do both. If you b
y chance have the misfortune of an upset that causes rib damage, chances are
that you will strip the wing of its covering for a thorough inspection of t
he wing. If one or more ribs need to be replaced you can build them in three
sections one section being between spar and the leading edge One between sp
ars And one between the Spar and trailing edge.
One of the beautiful things about experimental aviation is that there are al
ways more than just one way to do something again welcome aboard get to cutt
in an gluin!!
> On Jun 13, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Bruce Clemens <clemensfam3@sbcglobal.net> wro
te:
>
> Jeff, thank you for your thoughtful welcome.
> Take a nap! Yes, my speed too!!!
>
> Your main question as to whether I want to fly right now or later would be
answered by yes! LOL
> But no, I am ready to wait. My dear wife is a ceramics artist and teaches a
t out local Community College and when she retires she will need a portion o
f the hangar for her clay stuff. I will make sure that that happens before I
worry about my going aloft. But meanwhile I can still do my homework! :)
> So I think my approach will be to figure out how to nail down an engine, a
nd then work on an airframe.
>
> I very much appreciate your point about all of us being one medical away f
rom grounded. I take that point strongly for the reason that Cathy (my wife)
and I were involved in a bad traffic accident just three weeks ago where a m
an t-boned our Subaru after running a stop sign at 40 MPH. We were rolled an
d slid upside down 100 feet before stopping. It was at 7:00 AM on Glenstone A
ve in Springfield on a weekday. We are thankful that it wasn't 8:00 AM becau
se we were in the oncoming lanes when we stopped. Had there been more traffi
c it probably would have come out much worse.
> In any case we were able to walk away and are OK.
>
> So I've been thinking a lot recently about my mortality. But we have many f
riends at our happy place in NM who fly and will take me whenever I want. So
I am OK with waiting and dreaming of creating the best plane for Cathy and m
e into our retirement.
>
> I very much look forward to learning and sharing with you and others on th
is list as I go forward with this dream. Thank you for the advice. I will al
ways welcome more.
> Best,
> Bruce
>
>
>
> From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jboatri@emory.edu>
> To: Bruce Clemens <clemensfam3@sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New member
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Welcome! The Piet certainly will be great for tooling around on a beautifu
l desert morning. As to how to get there, a lot depends on your goals. Do yo
u want to fly right now, build, or both? In retirement, you may have the ti
me to fly in the mornings and evenings and build during the heat of the day.
Or take a nap (my speed). Given what I see on Barnstormers these days, you m
ay find that you can afford something to fly right now while you build a
=9Cdream machine.=9D Lots of solutions for both airframe and engine
.
>
> There are certainly many Corvair-powered Piets. They fly well and are smoo
th! I started down the Corvair route, but ended up buying a flying Piet with
a Continental so that I could get into the air quicker. I guess that=99
s another consideration. I=99ve been in an EAA chapter since the mid-8
0s. Back then I was the youngest member. Everybody talked about building and
flying, and some did. But an awful lot of people never got around to finish
ing their projects and never got much flying in. A lot of those guys are gon
e now. Not that you=99re asking for life advice, but none of us know h
ow long we have. William Wynne, the Corvair Authority, used to say that we
=99re all just one medical away from being grounded. That=99s somew
hat less true now with Sport Pilot and new medical certification rules, but i
n general, it=99s true that we never know how long we have. Oddly enou
gh, it was his =9Cone medical away from being grounded=9D statem
ent he made at our Chapter monthly meeting that spurred my decision to sell m
y Corvair project and buy a flying Pietenpol. I=99m glad I did as I go
t a lot of hours in the air that I=99d have never flown if I was still
tinkering around on that engine. It led directly to my buying a Pitts when t
he opportunity came along, again based on the mantra of you never know how l
ong you have left.
>
> Hope to see you flying someday soon!
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
> Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Core Director & Research Biologist
> Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
>
>
> From: <owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bruce Cleme
ns <clemensfam3@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 3:41 PM
> To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: New member
>
> Hello,
> I just joined this list.
> I am recently retired and my wife will soon be.
> We rcently bought a little home and hangar at Hacienda Sur Luna Airpark in
deep southern New Mexico. We love it there.
> Not yet there full time but in a year or so we will sell our home in Misso
uri and move out.
> I don't have a plane and have been considering what I would like to fly ar
ound when we get out there. It's class G airspace.
> I got my license in a J-3 a long time ago and most of my flying time is in
taildraggers. I just can't bring myself to buy a Cessna 150 or something li
ke that cheap just to get in the air. But good taildraggers seem to command a
premium that I can't easily afford.
> I think that for tooling around on a beautiful desert morning, an Air Camp
er would be perfect.
> No radio, no hassles, just pure early 20th century flying.
> I think I can build all of it and will try to begin with the engine.
> Corvair?
> Any counter opinions?
> I am ready to learn.
> Best,
> Bruce
>
>
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> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
> prohibited.
>
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Message 8
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Jim,=C2-yes, thanks. So glad I'm no longer in CA. And yes, mine will be E
xperimental. Best wishes for your continued flying in the State of Californ
ia. Or for anything else you wish to do there under Gov. Brown.
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New member
Certified airplanes will cost much in terms of annual inspections and just
general maintenance. My 172 cost me $6700 in annuals and relatively minor
changes; ie. generator to alternator in the last three years. Here in CA ha
ngar rents are high, gas 100LL is high and maintenance rates are high. I wo
uld never go certified again, experimental is the way to go, as you can get
repairmans certificate for the airplane you have built. My biases! Jim
On June 13, 2018 at 12:39 PM Bruce Clemens <clemensfam3@sbcglobal.net> wrot
e:
Hello,I just joined this list.I am recently retired and my wife will soon b
e.We rcently bought a little home and hangar at Hacienda Sur Luna Airpark i
n deep southern New Mexico. We love it there.Not yet there full time but in
a year or so we will sell our home in Missouri and move out.I don't have a
plane and have been considering what I would like to fly around when we ge
t out there. It's class G airspace.I got my license in a J-3 a long time ag
o and most of my flying time is in taildraggers. I just can't bring myself
to buy a Cessna 150 or something like that cheap just to get in the air. Bu
t good taildraggers seem to command a premium that I can't easily afford.I
think that for tooling around on a beautiful desert morning, an Air Camper
would be perfect.No radio, no hassles, just pure early 20th century flying.
I think I can build all of it and will try to begin with the engine.Corvair
?Any counter opinions?I am ready to learn.Best,Bruce
=C2-
Message 9
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Bruce,
First of all. welcome to the Forum. This is a good spot to go to for information
and assistance in your build. I wish you the best as you embark on this journey.
I would be remiss if I did not take the time to respond to Glen's comments about
Corvair engines and their value as an option for your choice of powerplant.
I think that Glen is doing you a disservice in giving his opinion on Corvairs.
Bernard Pietenpol, the designer of this wonderful airplane, used many different
engines in the various Air Campers that he built over five decades. What was
the last engine that he chose to use? Yes, Bruce, you guessed correctly - a
Corvair. When you go to Brodhead (and I encourage you to do so), take a look at
what powers "The Last Original", Bernard Pietenpol's last Air Camper that he
built. A Corvair. I find it interesting that some builders love the man and revere
his choices in the aircraft design but gloss over his choice of powerplant.
Bruce makes reliability a reason for not using a Corvair. I would suggest that
instead of accepting an online opinion from some one you have not met, who may
or may not have any experience with the Corvair engine, that you contact Dan
Weseman, the designer of the Panther, a great kit aircraft (https://flywithspa.com/).
The Panther design is very successful, fast, aerobatic, and a great airplane.
Of all the engines that he could have chosen, what was the initial engine
that Dan chose for the rollout of the Panther? Yes, Bruce, a Corvair. If
the Corvair engine has such a problem with reliability, why would Dan choose such
an engine?
Glen also makes the cost of the engine to be another reason for not choosing the
Corvair engine. I have made the choice to use a Corvair for many reasons. Probably
the reason at the bottom of the list was the cost of the engine. People
who are drawn to the Corvair are not drawn by cost, but rather by a thirst for
knowledge. For the same reason that you desire to build an airplane with your
own hands, the same motivation is what draws people to the Corvair. After having
built the engine, you will know that engine as well as anyone, can work on
it with confidence, and fly behind it knowing who built that engine. Who rebuilt
that Continental? You don't, in all likelihood, know him or her, so you do
not know how good a mechanic they are (or how bad, for that matter).
Here is my take on your choices. Do your homework. Don't just listen to Glen, or to me. Go to FlyCorvair.com and FlyCorvair.net and read all that you can on the subject of Corvair engines. Contact William Wynne and ask him about Corvair engines. He freely posts his cell phone number on his website. Go to other websites and learn as much as you can on the other engine choices, and then make an informed decision based upon what you feel is best for you. If you do decide to build a Corvair powered Air Camper, I encourage you to go to the Pietvair Forum at http://pietvair.freeforums.net/ and join. It is a website exclusively for builders and flyers of the Pietenpol/Corvair combination. It is a great group of people and I encourage you to use that as a great source of knowledge, assistance, and encouragement. I am the moderator of that forum, an I encourage you to use it as one of your tools as you build.
Again, welcome to the Forum, and keep us posted as you move forward.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480872#480872
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