---------------------------------------------------------- Pulsar-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/05/13: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:36 AM - Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 (Bob Hartunian) 2. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 (barrynorman@comcast.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:09 AM PST US Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 From: Bob Hartunian As I've mentioned several times previously, the stiffness is due to the CTE differences between glass wing and aluminum ailerons. Commercial aircraft use a sliding hinge arrangement to allow for the differences. You could relieve the hinge fit up or lubricate it often to minimize the effect. Bob H > From: Pulsar-List Digest Server > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:58:22 -0800 > To: Pulsar-List Digest List > Subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pulsar-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pulsar-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2 > 013-01-04&Archive=Pulsar > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter > 13-01-04&Archive=Pulsar > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pulsar-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 01/04/13: 4 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:21 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Bill Landucci) > 2. 09:30 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Petra Vomberg) > 3. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Larry Wheat) > 4. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Tom Gibbons) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:21:52 AM PST US > From: Bill Landucci > Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > > I as well have noticed this. The good thing is that it didn't seem to > get any worse at extreme cold temps. I've registered -20F on several > flights, and on several occasions, not much warmer than that while doing > pre-flight control checks. Stiff, but still smooth and responsive - no > sticking. > > The rudder, on the other hand, gets very 'sticky' when warm. Especially > on hot days during the flight or after landing. I think this is due to > the nylon bushings in the steel tubes of the rudder pedal assembly. The > rudder moves smoothly on it's hinges, but the pedal assembly sticks. In > the series III the water coolant lines (four 1" hoses) run under the > pedal assembly platform - providing some nice radiant heat. > > Bill L > > > On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:42 PM, barrynorman@comcast.net wrote: > >> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F > temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than > normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. > It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher > temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the > expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) > and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the > difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to > create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and > the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing > the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm > considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in > the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:30:01 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > From: Petra Vomberg > > Barry, > > On my Pulsar III, I also have stiff ailerons at below freezing temps. I > just used an oil on the hinges, the aileron control tube slider bushing, and > all ball joints thats good for low temps to help the situation. > > Regards > > Dan > > > Am 04.01.2013 2:42 Uhr schrieb "barrynorman@comcast.net" unter > : > >> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F temps >> that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal. After I >> landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It appeared to have >> improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in the low 30s. After >> thinking about it today I looked up the expansion/contraction rate of wood >> (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and did a calculation on the length of the >> aileron and found the difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if >> that's enough to create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed >> temp and the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was >> testing >> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering >> removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the >> hinges to see if that helps the situation. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > From: Larry Wheat > > I experienced the same thing BUT my problem was the center stick. I > disconnected the ailerons and the stiffness remained leaving the joystick > as the culprit. I burnished and polished several times with crocus cloth > and polishing wheel. After 5-6 tries I finally got it to the right diameter > for a good fit. The perplexing thing is that it was normal for 50 hrs. All > of a sudden in 45 degree weather it stiffened up. Some food for thought. > Don't know if it is the aluminum (which should have contracted if anything) > or the micarta bearings. Anyway seems to be ok now. Some food for thought, > Cheers, Larry N852LW > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:42 PM, wrote: > >> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F >> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal. >> After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It >> appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in >> the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the >> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and >> did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the difference was >> .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to create bind in >> the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and the cold air I was >> flying in. When I think back to when I was testing the plane 7 years ago in >> cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering removing the ailerons >> and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the hinges to see if that >> helps the situation. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Barry >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Larry Wheat > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:56:49 AM PST US > From: "Tom Gibbons" > Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > > Seems to me like a great question for Mr. Hartunian! Bob?? > Always wondered about that up here in the REAL cold land! > > Tom > From: barrynorman@comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:42 PM > Subject: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > > I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F > temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than > normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. > It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher > temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the > expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) > and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the > difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to > create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and > the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing > the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm > considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in > the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation. > > Any thoughts? > > Barry > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:18 AM PST US From: barrynorman@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 Thanks Bob for confirming my thoughts and for everyone else who responded. I'll relieve the clearance on the hinges as they are already well lubricated. Happy New Year! Thanks, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hartunian" Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:34:58 AM Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 As I've mentioned several times previously, the stiffness is due to the CTE differences between glass wing and aluminum ailerons. Commercial aircraft use a sliding hinge arrangement to allow for the differences. You could relieve the hinge fit up or lubricate it often to minimize the effect. Bob H > From: Pulsar-List Digest Server > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:58:22 -0800 > To: Pulsar-List Digest List > Subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 > > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Pulsar-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pulsar-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2 > 013-01-04&Archive=Pulsar > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter > 13-01-04&Archive=Pulsar > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pulsar-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 01/04/13: 4 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:21 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Bill Landucci) > 2. 09:30 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Petra Vomberg) > 3. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Larry Wheat) > 4. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Tom Gibbons) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:21:52 AM PST US > From: Bill Landucci > Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > > I as well have noticed this. The good thing is that it didn't seem to > get any worse at extreme cold temps. I've registered -20F on several > flights, and on several occasions, not much warmer than that while doing > pre-flight control checks. Stiff, but still smooth and responsive - no > sticking. > > The rudder, on the other hand, gets very 'sticky' when warm. Especially > on hot days during the flight or after landing. I think this is due to > the nylon bushings in the steel tubes of the rudder pedal assembly. The > rudder moves smoothly on it's hinges, but the pedal assembly sticks. In > the series III the water coolant lines (four 1" hoses) run under the > pedal assembly platform - providing some nice radiant heat. > > Bill L > > > On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:42 PM, barrynorman@comcast.net wrote: > >> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F > temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than > normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. > It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher > temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the > expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) > and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the > difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to > create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and > the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing > the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm > considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in > the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:30:01 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > From: Petra Vomberg > > Barry, > > On my Pulsar III, I also have stiff ailerons at below freezing temps. I > just used an oil on the hinges, the aileron control tube slider bushing, and > all ball joints thats good for low temps to help the situation. > > Regards > > Dan > > > Am 04.01.2013 2:42 Uhr schrieb "barrynorman@comcast.net" unter > : > >> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F temps >> that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal. After I >> landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It appeared to have >> improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in the low 30s. After >> thinking about it today I looked up the expansion/contraction rate of wood >> (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and did a calculation on the length of the >> aileron and found the difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if >> that's enough to create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed >> temp and the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was >> testing >> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering >> removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the >> hinges to see if that helps the situation. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > From: Larry Wheat > > I experienced the same thing BUT my problem was the center stick. I > disconnected the ailerons and the stiffness remained leaving the joystick > as the culprit. I burnished and polished several times with crocus cloth > and polishing wheel. After 5-6 tries I finally got it to the right diameter > for a good fit. The perplexing thing is that it was normal for 50 hrs. All > of a sudden in 45 degree weather it stiffened up. Some food for thought. > Don't know if it is the aluminum (which should have contracted if anything) > or the micarta bearings. Anyway seems to be ok now. Some food for thought, > Cheers, Larry N852LW > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:42 PM, wrote: > >> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F >> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal. >> After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It >> appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in >> the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the >> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and >> did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the difference was >> .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to create bind in >> the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and the cold air I was >> flying in. When I think back to when I was testing the plane 7 years ago in >> cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering removing the ailerons >> and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the hinges to see if that >> helps the situation. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Barry >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Larry Wheat > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:56:49 AM PST US > From: "Tom Gibbons" > Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > > Seems to me like a great question for Mr. Hartunian! Bob?? > Always wondered about that up here in the REAL cold land! > > Tom > From: barrynorman@comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:42 PM > Subject: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron > > I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F > temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than > normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. > It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher > temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the > expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) > and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the > difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to > create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and > the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing > the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm > considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in > the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation. > > Any thoughts? > > Barry > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pulsar-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pulsar-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pulsar-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pulsar-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.