---------------------------------------------------------- Pulsar-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/03/17: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:56 AM - Canyon or Box Canyon Turn ? (Ron Koval) 2. 12:11 PM - Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Jim Fillman) 3. 12:33 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis Adams) 4. 12:42 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Ray Pulsar III/3300) 5. 01:19 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Sonja Englert) 6. 02:04 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis Tubbs) 7. 02:40 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis Adams) 8. 05:48 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Ray Wilhelm) 9. 08:53 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Bob Heiser) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:52 AM PST US From: Ron Koval Subject: Pulsar-List: Canyon or Box Canyon Turn ? Pulsar friends, Has anybody performed a canyon or box canyon turn in a Pulsar? I was taught the maneuver when I had a Grumman Cheetah which was=C2-restr icted =C2-from acrobat maneuvers or spins but the biannual wings program instructor indicated that the canyon turn when performed properly produces no more stress on the aircraft than a stall would. Note, I don't necessarily need this skill where I fly, but I do remember wh en I learned how to do it, it was great skill to know. Best regards, RonkoN1037L ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:38 PM PST US From: "Jim Fillman" Subject: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Since the fly-in, I've been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser's Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks. Jim N623JF ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:06 PM PST US From: Dennis Adams Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Jim, A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream and t hey recommend a certain micron size. Unfortunately i can not tell you what i t is from memory. I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special chec k valve since it is low pressure. I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after m ounting the manifold in the engine compartment. =46rom the manifold and jet i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to run the r eturn to the tank. The return is primarily to stop vapor lock. Dennis Adams Sent from an IPad On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote: Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss o f Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Fa cet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would l ook like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet w ith a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thi nking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the che ck valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks .. Jim N623JF ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:52 PM PST US From: "Ray Pulsar III/3300" Subject: RE: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump That is exactly what I did when I built mine 20 years ago, Jim. At that tim e there were some Facet pumps that could fail closed. Not so any more with the newer ones. So they say. I installed a very low crack pressure check valve in the circuit you descri bed. 3/8 tube size. I had one from when I worked for a company that made th em. I am sure you can buy one from ebay. Make sure it is aircraft and not a uto or industrial. They don=99t make them with very low crack pressur e (8 =9C water max) and zero leakage in the check direction. Ray Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Jim Fillman Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:10 PM Subject: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path wou ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Fa cet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to t he tanks. Jim N623JF ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:22 PM PST US From: Sonja Englert Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I do not have a bypass. One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of the tank. Sonja On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote: > Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the los s of Bob > Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Face t > auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would lo ok > like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet wi th > a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I > thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for t he > check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the > tanks. > > > Jim > > N623JF > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:43 PM PST US From: Dennis Tubbs Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be concerned what might happen if my Facet pump failed. On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert wrote: > My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it di d > not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I > do not have a bypass. > > One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, > return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of > the tank. > > Sonja > > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote: > >> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the lo ss of Bob >> Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Fac et >> auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would l ook >> like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet w ith >> a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I >> thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the >> check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to th e >> tanks. >> >> >> >> Jim >> >> N623JF >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:44 PM PST US From: Dennis Adams Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Its vapor pressure, no pressure, no vapor! Sent from an IPad On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:03 PM, Dennis Tubbs wrote: Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be concer ned what might happen if my Facet pump failed. > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert wrote: > My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I d o not have a bypass. > > One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, r eturn vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of t he tank. > > Sonja > >> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote: >> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the los s of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through th e Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path wou ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Fac et with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the t anks. >> >> >> >> Jim >> >> N623JF >> > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:12 PM PST US From: Ray Wilhelm Subject: RE: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Please be advised that the crack pressure of the ASP check valve is not lis ted. If it is not less then 8 inches of water, do not use it. The high crac k pressure of typical Check Valve will cause the engine driven pump to vapo r lock the first time it is needed at high temps and altitude. Especially w ith auto gas. You do not want the pump to have to suck against the typical 2 psi crack pressure. Neither do you want it to leak at all in normal opera tion. It is like your heart with a very bad murmur. The Facet pump will jus t be putting the fuel back to its own inlet. Ray Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Dennis Adams Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Jim, A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream and they recommend a certain micron size. =C2-Unfortunately i can not tell y ou what it is from memory. =C2- I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special che ck valve since it is low pressure. I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after mounting the manifold in the engine compartment. =C2-From the manifold an d jet i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to ru n the return =C2-to the tank. The return is primarily to stop vapor lock. Dennis Adams=C2- Sent from an IPad=C2- On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote: Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path wou ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Fa cet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to t he tanks. =C2- Jim N623JF ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump From: Bob Heiser I have seen diagrams just like you describe. That is the way I would do it if i built or owned another low wing. On 10/03/2017 02:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote: > I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with > a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine -- God Bless, Bob W7IKT & Carol N5CBQ HeiserI ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pulsar-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pulsar-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pulsar-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pulsar-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.