Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Tip Tanks (Seibert Bob-r18643)
2. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: Tip Tanks (Cy Galley)
3. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Tip Tanks (Konrad Werner)
4. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Tip Tanks (Bob & Toodie Marshall)
5. 08:21 AM - Tail Wheel (Ernest Hale)
6. 08:31 AM - Re: Tail Wheel (Tom Martin)
7. 08:59 AM - Re: looking for HR spinner and bulkhead (Frazier, Vincent A)
8. 09:56 AM - Three point landings (Christopher Norris)
9. 12:29 PM - Re: Three point landings (Lee Taylor)
10. 12:45 PM - Re: Three point landings (David Magaw)
11. 01:08 PM - Three point landings - another free opinion (Mlfred@aol.com)
12. 01:26 PM - Re: Three point landings (Tom Martin)
13. 02:17 PM - Re: Tail Wheel (Christopher Norris)
14. 03:33 PM - Re: Three point landings - another free opinion (Boyd C. Braem)
15. 07:06 PM - Re: Re: Tip Tanks (N223RV@aol.com)
16. 07:11 PM - Re: RV-List: Eyeball Swivel Vent (N223RV@aol.com)
17. 09:38 PM - Re: Re: RV-List: Eyeball Swivel Vent (Bob Japundza)
Message 1
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
Phil,
The advice on plumbing the tip tanks together "the tips are teed together which
gives
you, left, right, tips and off." is best not done that way.
This will, in effect, give you a "both" position when you feed from the tip tanks.
The problem is that you will get crossfeed, possible dumping overboard on the low
wing and probably start sucking air from one tip tank before the other is empty.
Ever notice that only airplanes without fuel pumps have a "both" position for the
fuel selector?
Bob Seibert
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tip Tanks |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
That is because when you use a pump you are sucking from the tank. If you
suck from TWO tanks and one is empty, you will suck air and not gas because
the air sucks easier than the gas even if the other tank is full. Remember
that tanks don't empty at the same rate. One will empty before the other
leaving you sucking air.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seibert Bob-r18643" <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: RE: Tip Tanks
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643
<Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
>
> Phil,
> The advice on plumbing the tip tanks together "the tips are teed together
which gives
> you, left, right, tips and off." is best not done that way.
> This will, in effect, give you a "both" position when you feed from the
tip tanks.
> The problem is that you will get crossfeed, possible dumping overboard on
the low wing and probably start sucking air from one tip tank before the
other is empty.
> Ever notice that only airplanes without fuel pumps have a "both" position
for the fuel selector?
> Bob Seibert
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tip Tanks |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
OR,
Put the recommended check valves on either side of the "T", so Fuel can only
feed into the "T", but not drain back to the tanks.
Select the Tips for Cruise ONLY, use fullest Main Tank for Take Off &
Landings.
If you manage to keep the Ball centered in flight, you should not have a
"low" wing.
Konrad
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643
<Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
> Phil,
> The advice on plumbing the tip tanks together "the tips are teed together
which gives
> you, left, right, tips and off." is best not done that way.
> This will, in effect, give you a "both" position when you feed from the
tip tanks.
> The problem is that you will get crossfeed, possible dumping overboard on
the low wing and probably start sucking air from one tip tank before the
other is empty.
> Ever notice that only airplanes without fuel pumps have a "both" position
for the fuel selector?
> Bob Seibert
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tip Tanks |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" <rtmarshall@osbtown.com>
Hello all,
I am amazed that as intelligent people we who build and repair A/C do not
quite read all the information presented, if one wishs you can tee both Tip
tanks together, it does work,I know as I have used that on an RV 4, using
the kiss priniciple and your stop watch and yes you do have a little more
fuel in one or the other, and you will stop flying with one wing low Too! If
one continues to read the post it also says you can individualy valve the
tanks or if one wishs you can $$$ buy the expensive 5 position Valve. Fuel
systems should be as simple as possible.Just because these things are faster
than bonanzas they do not have to be as complicated .! And on that vein
will you Cy be running the broken bird repair facility at OSH this year as
in the past? Please do not archive --- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: RE: Tip Tanks
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> That is because when you use a pump you are sucking from the tank. If you
> suck from TWO tanks and one is empty, you will suck air and not gas
because
> the air sucks easier than the gas even if the other tank is full. Remember
> that tanks don't empty at the same rate. One will empty before the other
> leaving you sucking air.
>
> Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.bellanca-championclub.com
> Actively supporting Aeroncas
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Seibert Bob-r18643" <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Rocket-List: RE: Tip Tanks
>
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643
> <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
> >
> > Phil,
> > The advice on plumbing the tip tanks together "the tips are teed
together
> which gives
> > you, left, right, tips and off." is best not done that way.
> > This will, in effect, give you a "both" position when you feed from the
> tip tanks.
> > The problem is that you will get crossfeed, possible dumping overboard
on
> the low wing and probably start sucking air from one tip tank before the
> other is empty.
> > Ever notice that only airplanes without fuel pumps have a "both"
position
> for the fuel selector?
> > Bob Seibert
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Ernest Hale" <ehale@cheyenne-enviro.com>
I have found that I have a bit of a problem with my tail wheel unlocking
on me when I land thus causing some tense moments in a x wind. Does
anyone know of a locking tail wheel that could be used on take off and
landing or of a tail wheel that won't unlock on you when you have to get
fancy on the rudder pedals to keep it heading down the runway.
Thanks,
Ernest Hale
Harmon Rocket N540HB
Message 6
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Martin" <fairlea@execulink.com>
Ernest
I am not sure which tail wheel you have but if it is the Vans' then there
are some things you can do to help this. Often with use the little pin that
slides in and out gets a burr on it, or the hole that it goes into does.
Clean these things up with a small file and lubricate the assembly. This is
a part that needs to be taken apart and cleaned on a semi annual basis
depending on how much you fly. It could be that the grove in the upper
steering arm is getting worn. It can be replaced or you could purchase a
Terry Jantzi steering link which comes with a new steering arm.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Hale
Subject: Rocket-List: Tail Wheel
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Ernest Hale" <ehale@cheyenne-enviro.com>
I have found that I have a bit of a problem with my tail wheel unlocking
on me when I land thus causing some tense moments in a x wind. Does
anyone know of a locking tail wheel that could be used on take off and
landing or of a tail wheel that won't unlock on you when you have to get
fancy on the rudder pedals to keep it heading down the runway.
Thanks,
Ernest Hale
Harmon Rocket N540HB
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: looking for HR spinner and bulkhead |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
You can post a note to the rocket list rocket-list-digest@matronics.com or get
a carbon fiber one from Mark Frederick for around $450. I've got one of those
and they appear to be fine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rideandflyhigh@aol.com [mailto:Rideandflyhigh@aol.com]
Subject: looking for HR spinner and bulkhead
Hi Vince,
i am building a Harmon R. here in Montana and looking for a Spinner and Bulkhead
for my IO 540 c4b5 . is there a way to find a used spinner ( maybe from people
who went to a MT prop and spinner) or where i can post a add that i am looking
for one?
Or maybe you know someone?
Thanks for your help
Peter Vogt 406-5820263 or Rideandflyhigh@aol.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Three point landings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
Does anyone have some advice on the technique for
eliminating the bounce on three point landings? I've
been flying power-off landings, but always seem to
end up with the nose coming back up on me. Is a
little power the solution? In the citabria, I can
dial landings all day long, so looking for the magic I
don't have yet!
thanks,
chris
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Three point landings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher
Norris
Subject: Rocket-List: Three point landings
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris
<chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
Does anyone have some advice on the technique for
eliminating the bounce on three point landings? I've
been flying power-off landings, but always seem to
end up with the nose coming back up on me. Is a
little power the solution? In the citabria, I can
dial landings all day long, so looking for the magic I
don't have yet!
thanks,
chris
Hi, Chris,
Three-point landings should always follow one simple rule. The
airplane wing should stall at the exact same instant, OR VERY SLIGHTLY
BEFORE, the wheels touch the ground. If you don't have the stick all
the way back to achieve the angle that the wing will stall, you will
touch down prematurely, and with the extreme low wing of the Rocket, the
strong ground effect will probably cause a slight balloon away from the
touchdown, at which point the wing will stall, (further away from ground
effect), and Plop! You mentioned "always having the nose coming
up"---that tells me you aren't getting fully flared before touchdown.
Try three things. First, get the stick a little further back
just before touchdown. Don't let it "skid" onto the ground before the
stall occurs. The Citabria has a high wing, so the ground effect isn't
as strong, plus that plane quits flying pretty softly. Rarely fully
stalls on the touchdown, and little real ground effect. By getting the
stick further back just immediately before/at touchdown, you give the
wing a better chance to quit flying at the right time.
Second, are you using enough nose-up trim on final? If you are
holding the plane in the glide manually, rather than via trim, (very
easy to do in a Rocket, since they are so delightfully sensitive), you
will probably not be giving enough back-stick against that force at
touchdown flare. In my Cessna 180, (one of the most challenging planes
to PROPERLY land, I LOVE it!), without full up-trim, getting that last
inch of NECESSARY back pressure the split-second before touchdown is
rather difficult.
Third, the BEST three-point landing is one with a slight "Plop"
from about three inches, rather than the greased-on landing. Especially
in a very low-wing plane like the Rocket, if the plane isn't fully
stalled at/before the touchdown, there is a strong possibility that it
will "bounce off" of the ground effect, and then the landing probably
isn't just a "slight plop".
What I teach my taildragger students is that the actual
touchdown SHOULD BE A SLIGHT DISAPOINTMENT! The idea is to "keep the
plane at 2 inches off the runway", until "Shucks, it just plain won't
fly anymore, darn." (GRIN!)
The properly-done three-point is just about the prettiest
maneuver in flying. Keep at it until you are GOOD, and you can curl
your lip a little arrogantly towards anyone who drives their plane into
the ground in a wheel landing. There is a difference between airplane
drivers and pilots.
Lee Taylor
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Three point landings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
And if you really do it right, the tailwheel will grease the landing first
before the main wheels plop.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Three point landings
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher
> Norris
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Rocket-List: Three point landings
>
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris
> <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
>
> Does anyone have some advice on the technique for
> eliminating the bounce on three point landings? I've
> been flying power-off landings, but always seem to
> end up with the nose coming back up on me. Is a
> little power the solution? In the citabria, I can
> dial landings all day long, so looking for the magic I
> don't have yet!
>
> thanks,
> chris
>
> Hi, Chris,
>
> Three-point landings should always follow one simple rule. The
> airplane wing should stall at the exact same instant, OR VERY SLIGHTLY
> BEFORE, the wheels touch the ground. If you don't have the stick all
> the way back to achieve the angle that the wing will stall, you will
> touch down prematurely, and with the extreme low wing of the Rocket, the
> strong ground effect will probably cause a slight balloon away from the
> touchdown, at which point the wing will stall, (further away from ground
> effect), and Plop! You mentioned "always having the nose coming
> up"---that tells me you aren't getting fully flared before touchdown.
> Try three things. First, get the stick a little further back
> just before touchdown. Don't let it "skid" onto the ground before the
> stall occurs. The Citabria has a high wing, so the ground effect isn't
> as strong, plus that plane quits flying pretty softly. Rarely fully
> stalls on the touchdown, and little real ground effect. By getting the
> stick further back just immediately before/at touchdown, you give the
> wing a better chance to quit flying at the right time.
> Second, are you using enough nose-up trim on final? If you are
> holding the plane in the glide manually, rather than via trim, (very
> easy to do in a Rocket, since they are so delightfully sensitive), you
> will probably not be giving enough back-stick against that force at
> touchdown flare. In my Cessna 180, (one of the most challenging planes
> to PROPERLY land, I LOVE it!), without full up-trim, getting that last
> inch of NECESSARY back pressure the split-second before touchdown is
> rather difficult.
> Third, the BEST three-point landing is one with a slight "Plop"
> from about three inches, rather than the greased-on landing. Especially
> in a very low-wing plane like the Rocket, if the plane isn't fully
> stalled at/before the touchdown, there is a strong possibility that it
> will "bounce off" of the ground effect, and then the landing probably
> isn't just a "slight plop".
> What I teach my taildragger students is that the actual
> touchdown SHOULD BE A SLIGHT DISAPOINTMENT! The idea is to "keep the
> plane at 2 inches off the runway", until "Shucks, it just plain won't
> fly anymore, darn." (GRIN!)
>
> The properly-done three-point is just about the prettiest
> maneuver in flying. Keep at it until you are GOOD, and you can curl
> your lip a little arrogantly towards anyone who drives their plane into
> the ground in a wheel landing. There is a difference between airplane
> drivers and pilots.
>
> Lee Taylor
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Three point landings - another free opinion |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Mlfred@aol.com
In a message dated 5/15/2003 2:46:23 PM Central Daylight Time, dmagaw@att.net
writes:
> And if you really do it right, the tailwheel will grease the landing first
> before the main wheels plop.
>
Agreed, and you might want to try carrying a bit of power to get a bit more
elevator effectiveness. Then, you'll find the extra power a liability with a
pax in the back...
Don't try genuine 'full stall' landings -- the wing stalls at ~20deg (re:
Terry Jantzi's testing), and the ship sets at ~12 deg. We're talking a
substantial PLOP if done this way.
Sounds like a practice issue -- keep practicing! You are likely not quite
aware of the 1' AGL visual cue yet, but it will come. Might try a few
landings from the BACK seat of the Citrabia? This might get your peripheral
vision working a bit better too.
Cheers
Mark
Message 12
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| Subject: | Three point landings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Martin" <fairlea@execulink.com>
Three point landings
Good topic, with 500 hours I still do not have the absolute answers to
that
question. What I can tell you is that this plane has negligible ground
effect and the sink rate at the lower, almost stall speeds are, how do I
phrase this, impressive? Yes it is important that you have the stick all
the way back at the right time but the key is the flare, too early and you
will bounce, too late on the flare and, well, you will bounce even more. I
make better three point landings with a passenger. I am not ashamed of
wheel landings, I like them in this airplane and they can be very pretty and
a LOT easier on the gear than a blotched three point. But sometimes you need
to land in a shorter distance than a wheel landing permits so three pointers
are a necessary. If for no other reason, then three pointers will bring a
rocket guy down to earth, (pun intended), and humble him a little.
I am going to continue practising for as long as I own one of these things.
Tom Martin
Message 13
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
Ernest,
I had this problem with my rocket. The aluminum
steering arm began to wear and the pin pops out during
brisk movement of the rudder pedals. I replaced it
with a steel version. I think it was from Vans. Very
cheap replacement item compared to going off the
runway ... Dave Hallmark at Massey Aircraft in
Bakersfield can help you. - Chris
>
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Ernest Hale"
<ehale@cheyenne-enviro.com>
>
> I have found that I have a bit of a problem with my
tail wheel unlocking
> on me when I land thus causing some tense moments in
a x wind. Does
> anyone know of a locking tail wheel that could be
used on take off and
> landing or of a tail wheel that won't unlock on you
when you have to get
> fancy on the rudder pedals to keep it heading down
the runway.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ernest Hale
> Harmon Rocket N540HB
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Three point landings - another free opinion |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Mlfred--
You really have to think of your career. How many people on this list
know that you sorta hepped a little with the Exxon Tiger??? You Texas
boys keep it close to home.
But, anyway, I have to disagree with that tailwheel comment--while,
theoretically, you can drag the tailwheel down the runway, (and it makes
a nice picture for your friends) the bearings in Van's standard
tailwheel really don't like that. Van's standard bearings are what you
would find in some cart to move wharehouse furniture around. And,
besides, that's why they call those two other wheels the "main landing
gear".
Love, Boyd.
Mlfred@aol.com wrote:
>--> Rocket-List message posted by: Mlfred@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 5/15/2003 2:46:23 PM Central Daylight Time, dmagaw@att.net
>writes:
>
>
>
>
>>And if you really do it right, the tailwheel will grease the landing first before
the main wheels plop.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Agreed, and you might want to try carrying a bit of power to get a bit more
>elevator effectiveness. Then, you'll find the extra power a liability with a
>pax in the back...
>
>Don't try genuine 'full stall' landings -- the wing stalls at ~20deg (re:
>Terry Jantzi's testing), and the ship sets at ~12 deg. We're talking a
>substantial PLOP if done this way.
>
>Sounds like a practice issue -- keep practicing! You are likely not quite
>aware of the 1' AGL visual cue yet, but it will come. Might try a few
>landings from the BACK seat of the Citrabia? This might get your peripheral
>vision working a bit better too.
>
>Cheers
>Mark
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tip Tanks |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
Yes, but let us not forget the FAR's state every fuel tank must have a vent,
sump, and an indicator gauge. I'd hate to have those extra tanks plumbed
into a nice $250 Anadair fuel valve and run out of fuel on a tip tank with no
gauge or sump. The insurance company would not loose any money that way,
only you would.... That is why everyone is plumbing them into the main
tanks.... this way the FAR's state only the main tank cannot overflow due to
fuel from another tank.
I'd like to hear everyone's comments on this at I just installed the Hotel
Whiskey Aviation wing tanks on my RV-4 and struggled to come up with
something better than they had for the plumbing.... I ended up improving on
their design by adding check valves between the 2 tanks to prevent fuel from
feeding back into the tip tanks from either leaving the tip tank valves open
during aerobatics or when on the ground with full main tanks and empty tip
tanks......
I really was ready to buy the 5 way valve so I could pull fuel from each tank
as I choose, but with no indicator and no sump I just didn't think it to be a
wise choice.
Comments?
-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 60 some hours and dreading the painting process....
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Eyeball Swivel Vent |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
Some Rocket guy had some very large all Aluminum ones for sale at SNF this
year. I met him at the beer tent but don't recall his name. He was asking
somewhere around $135 each for them but they were very nice.... Vents seem
overpriced to me, but compared to others they were well worth it. Maybe
someone on the rocket list knows who this was and has contact information?
If so, please cross post on the RV-List. Thanks
-Mike Kraus
N223RV
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Eyeball Swivel Vent |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
Hi Mike,
Contact Jeff Mears 317-745-0656, or 317-745-7551 (he was the guy at snf you're
referring to.) His vents are a direct replacement for those crappy black plastic
vents Vans sells. They are well worth the $$ for $135. The "mouth" of the
vent (or whatever you want to call it) is about 20% larger.
Regards, Bob
N223RV@aol.com wrote:
--> Rocket-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
Some Rocket guy had some very large all Aluminum ones for sale at SNF this
year. I met him at the beer tent but don't recall his name. He was asking
somewhere around $135 each for them but they were very nice.... Vents seem
overpriced to me, but compared to others they were well worth it. Maybe
someone on the rocket list knows who this was and has contact information?
If so, please cross post on the RV-List. Thanks
-Mike Kraus
N223RV
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